Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
^
I realized when I saw Chu going even with M2K without using Blizzard XD
I realized when I saw Chu going even with M2K without using Blizzard XD
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Social General Ice Climber Chat
- Thread starter dj asakura
- Start date
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I mean.. I've known for awhile just....
He got ***** by boback...
Lol.
He got ***** by boback...
Lol.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
if a marth player doesn't understand how to space against ics it's a pretty bad match-up
choknater
Smash Obsessed
yea haha
the spacing is pretty simple once you figure it out though
marth plays a lot of matchups trying to DD and grab, but it's the exact opposite with ic's. just gotta space fairs and nairs and dtilt and don't whiff stupid ftilts/fsmash in order to get grabbed
don't mess with the projectiles too much and just find the right angles to approach
idk the matchup is simple once both players find the right moves. then it becomes a spacing battle, and i don't think there are many mixups needed for either character to win. ic's, however, do have the freedom to make gutsy approaches after an ice block
the spacing is pretty simple once you figure it out though
marth plays a lot of matchups trying to DD and grab, but it's the exact opposite with ic's. just gotta space fairs and nairs and dtilt and don't whiff stupid ftilts/fsmash in order to get grabbed
don't mess with the projectiles too much and just find the right angles to approach
idk the matchup is simple once both players find the right moves. then it becomes a spacing battle, and i don't think there are many mixups needed for either character to win. ic's, however, do have the freedom to make gutsy approaches after an ice block
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I think marth is one of my worst MUs. Dtilt always gets me .-.
^Try to SH Fair over the D-tilt if he does it a lot. Then, when he starts to mix it up with fair/f-smash, roll behind him. Marth is probably the high tier that has the hardest time punishing rolls unless he gets the read.
Also, try to tilt you shield down when you're shielding a d-tilt. Tilting your shield is very good against Marth in general. Tilt it down when you're on a platform to avoid getting hit by the tip of u-tilt/u-air/ f-smash. Tilt it slightly up and forward if you think he is going to f-smash/fair when you stand on the ground ect.
Btw, are Wobbles and Trail by any chance teaming at The Big House 2?
I'd love to see 4 of the best ICs players in a 2v2 match all using ICs. On Mute City.
Also, try to tilt you shield down when you're shielding a d-tilt. Tilting your shield is very good against Marth in general. Tilt it down when you're on a platform to avoid getting hit by the tip of u-tilt/u-air/ f-smash. Tilt it slightly up and forward if you think he is going to f-smash/fair when you stand on the ground ect.
Btw, are Wobbles and Trail by any chance teaming at The Big House 2?
I'd love to see 4 of the best ICs players in a 2v2 match all using ICs. On Mute City.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Oh... I forget that fair is a move sometimes... Its kinda slow so I only use it in a few situations, but yea that makes sense, I'll try doing that more ^^
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
To bring back an old topic, I generally like dthrow -> fsmash more than fthrow -> fsmash since dthrow lasts longer and hence lets you charge the smash more. If the opponent isn't mashing and lets you get it fully charged either way, then I can see fthrow being better.
Fly: The difference in smash charge difference is less than the difference between the f-throw/d-smash damage. Even if you got NO charge, f-throw would still be better damage-wise.
On lighter characters you also get more charge time anyhow, so the point is moot.
F-throwwwww ;_;
On lighter characters you also get more charge time anyhow, so the point is moot.
F-throwwwww ;_;
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I hear you're not entering at TBH2, Wobbles
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Wasn't there a no spectator rule?
Binx
Smash Master
Vs spacies that DI dthrow dair away, can you dthrow dair, then wavedash where they would roll and get a regrab?
Also vs Marths Ftilt you just need to lightshield it and let it push you to a safer range, or hard call it and fair him. If he calls your fair though he can fsmash you out of the jump so careful with that. I assume you could bait that with a jump then airdodge through him but I think he could turn and fthrow you real quick without you being able to do anything if he reacted fast enough. Not 100% sure though.
Also vs Marths Ftilt you just need to lightshield it and let it push you to a safer range, or hard call it and fair him. If he calls your fair though he can fsmash you out of the jump so careful with that. I assume you could bait that with a jump then airdodge through him but I think he could turn and fthrow you real quick without you being able to do anything if he reacted fast enough. Not 100% sure though.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I think spacies can shine you if you try to chase the roll...
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
It's funny, I was watching some recent Fly vids.
We all still suck so much... Like, way more technical errors than any other character but we still get by. This character has so much potential.
We all still suck so much... Like, way more technical errors than any other character but we still get by. This character has so much potential.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Its just harder to be technically consistent with the ICs.
They are difficult to control, but their punishes are crazy good.
Its partly why I like the character so much <3
They are difficult to control, but their punishes are crazy good.
Its partly why I like the character so much <3
Correct. I'll be doing commentary all day long though.
GhllieShdeKnife
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 687
I 2stocked a falso that normally 3 stocks me in friendlies today. it was really spastic, i just stuck to smashes jabs and bair/uair.
dsmash is really good
dsmash is really good
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
Falco needs SDI to escape, so it's more of a Fox problem.
In my experience Foxes tend to hold away on the control stick and down on the c-stick which buffers a spotdodge (I think you might still be able to regrab if they roll because it's a few frames slower).
I've posted it a few times already but b-throw -> f-air is a pretty cool way to punish this sort of DI. You can also d-throw d-air and just run farther than you normally would, but that's way riskier if they SDI or if they don't hold away (you could get shined or u-smashed).
Wobbles: Is that really true? I thought f-throw does like 3% more than d-throw, and charged smashes do a lot more damage than uncharged smashes (although like you said you still get a partial charge on f-throw)...
Dthrow is good for possibly early kills due to fast throwanimation. Fthrow for guarantied kill maybe (someone should test and list this).
Posting due to dthrow has the possibility of Nana walking forward, getting the reversehit on fsmash.
Posting due to dthrow has the possibility of Nana walking forward, getting the reversehit on fsmash.
Undecayed, F-throw does 11 percent. D-throw does 6.
On a Doc at 0 percent, grab -> headbutt -> charging f-smash -> f-throw -> release = 30 damage. The d-throw version does 24. Might be related to partial percents. I used training mode and SD'ed in between every attempt to reset decay.
The thing is, your f-throw will do LESS if you don't do it properly because it deals its damage in two parts. You have to time the smash release so it gets them after the f-throw has done its second hit. So the timing is stricter, but the damage is higher. And on lighter characters where f-throw lasts longer, you'll get more charge time as well.
Also useful is f-throw -> running u-smash. That's way easier than timing the d-throw u-smash on the trickier floaties when they DI away (Samus, Luigi, Puff).
On a Doc at 0 percent, grab -> headbutt -> charging f-smash -> f-throw -> release = 30 damage. The d-throw version does 24. Might be related to partial percents. I used training mode and SD'ed in between every attempt to reset decay.
The thing is, your f-throw will do LESS if you don't do it properly because it deals its damage in two parts. You have to time the smash release so it gets them after the f-throw has done its second hit. So the timing is stricter, but the damage is higher. And on lighter characters where f-throw lasts longer, you'll get more charge time as well.
Also useful is f-throw -> running u-smash. That's way easier than timing the d-throw u-smash on the trickier floaties when they DI away (Samus, Luigi, Puff).
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Just thought you guys might be interested in our pools at Big House 2:
[collapse="Pool 2"]
Apasher
Bidwell
Bieber
Blake
Corkus
Gracen
Kels
Nintendude
[/collapse]
[collapse="Pool 5"]
1der
BlueEG
Bolt
Crooked
Dre
Fly Amanita
jbro
ORLY
[/collapse]
[collapse="Pool 12"]
hellsing
Kzez
Lagoon
PGH Carroll
Slox
Trail
Unknown522
Zbet
[/collapse]
I've honestly never even heard of anyone in my pool besides Kels lol
I'm curious to see how Trail does vs. unknown. Unknown has stomped me the past few times I've played him and I really think his style just counters mine.
[collapse="Pool 2"]
Apasher
Bidwell
Bieber
Blake
Corkus
Gracen
Kels
Nintendude
[/collapse]
[collapse="Pool 5"]
1der
BlueEG
Bolt
Crooked
Dre
Fly Amanita
jbro
ORLY
[/collapse]
[collapse="Pool 12"]
hellsing
Kzez
Lagoon
PGH Carroll
Slox
Trail
Unknown522
Zbet
[/collapse]
I've honestly never even heard of anyone in my pool besides Kels lol
I'm curious to see how Trail does vs. unknown. Unknown has stomped me the past few times I've played him and I really think his style just counters mine.
Kaffie
Smash Rookie
I'm suspecting that this question have come up before, but I haven't found an answer to it so I'll just ask it anyways: Is there any way to controll or predict the direction of Nana's throw?
Nintendude
Smash Hero
It just depends on which way they DI.
john!
Smash Hero
bieber is a decent jigglypuff
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Hey nintendude, be gentle with mah boy bidwell (.dempt) 
His spacies aren't very good at the IC mu but he always ***** me with his marth :'(
His spacies aren't very good at the IC mu but he always ***** me with his marth :'(
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
Wait, really? Like if they hold down Nana will d-throw?
Kaffie
Smash Rookie
I just tested this and it seems to be incorrect.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
Yeah, I've always thought it was just random. Maybe Nintendude meant something else...
The only time you "control" where Nana throws (AFAIK) is with regards to the edge. If she's close enough to an "edge" (and sometimes that involves weird slopes and parts of certain stages, like Brinstar and PS), she'll try to throw them off that edge with b-throw or f-throw.
Another neat thing to know is that (I don't know the exact cause of it still trying to figure it out) when Nana up-throws certain characters underneath certain platforms, she automatically forces them onto the ground of those platforms. It's weird. I should test it on all the neutrals. I have a lot of free time today.
Another neat thing to know is that (I don't know the exact cause of it still trying to figure it out) when Nana up-throws certain characters underneath certain platforms, she automatically forces them onto the ground of those platforms. It's weird. I should test it on all the neutrals. I have a lot of free time today.
Here's a short list of the u-throw auto-grounding effect.
THINGS TO NOTE: You can't get an up-throw under Yoshi's platform because it's too close to the edge; if you're under it, Nana will always throw to the edge. FoD's side platforms are too variable and hard to test so I didn't bother (except for Marth). At max height they have the highest odds, I think. I also wasn't too specific with percent, but I don't think it matters (much). Pokemon Stadium was only tested in neutral.
Marth: Yoshi's, FoD (max height side platform, not middle), Battlefield sides, DL64 sides.
Falcon: Pokemon Stadium sides, Battlefield Sides, DL64 sides.
Peach: Yoshi's, FoD (middle), BF side.
Sheik: Yoshi's, FoD (middle), BF side, DL side.
Ganon: Pokemon Stadium sides, BF side, DL64 side.
Doc: YS, FoD (middle)
Samus: PS, BF side, DL side.
Fox/Falco: None ;_;
THINGS TO NOTE: You can't get an up-throw under Yoshi's platform because it's too close to the edge; if you're under it, Nana will always throw to the edge. FoD's side platforms are too variable and hard to test so I didn't bother (except for Marth). At max height they have the highest odds, I think. I also wasn't too specific with percent, but I don't think it matters (much). Pokemon Stadium was only tested in neutral.
Marth: Yoshi's, FoD (max height side platform, not middle), Battlefield sides, DL64 sides.
Falcon: Pokemon Stadium sides, Battlefield Sides, DL64 sides.
Peach: Yoshi's, FoD (middle), BF side.
Sheik: Yoshi's, FoD (middle), BF side, DL side.
Ganon: Pokemon Stadium sides, BF side, DL64 side.
Doc: YS, FoD (middle)
Samus: PS, BF side, DL side.
Fox/Falco: None ;_;
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Wobbles I has question:
I was practicing handoff stuff against a lvl 1 DK on yoshi's on the right platform at the very edge of the platform (facing killzone) and I was doing the handoff (I'd done 3 or 4 regrabs?) and then i'd handed it to nana and she backthrew him...
Why did this happen?
I was practicing handoff stuff against a lvl 1 DK on yoshi's on the right platform at the very edge of the platform (facing killzone) and I was doing the handoff (I'd done 3 or 4 regrabs?) and then i'd handed it to nana and she backthrew him...
Why did this happen?
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
Did she slide backwards? Because sometimes when Nana grabs big characters near the ledge, it pushes her away, and I guess if she slides far enough she might b-throw.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
No, she was at the very edge (if she were any further she would fall off)
Nintendude
Smash Hero
I misread. I thought he asked which way they go when Nana up-throws.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
This is probably wrong.
Or your game glitched in a way that has never been documented before.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Has anyone here played Kels before or have advice on how to get around his style of camping?
john!
Smash Hero
trail and i are pretty much the only ic players in the MW
my advice would be "pick FD" but that's my my advice for everything so it might not serve you too well
trail's advice would probably be something about manning up and using ganondorf
so i think you're out of luck
edit: i don't think kels has much experience escaping chaingrabs since trail doesn't really chaingrab and i'm not good enough to grab kels
my advice would be "pick FD" but that's my my advice for everything so it might not serve you too well
trail's advice would probably be something about manning up and using ganondorf
so i think you're out of luck
edit: i don't think kels has much experience escaping chaingrabs since trail doesn't really chaingrab and i'm not good enough to grab kels
.vanir; I've had that experience when Nana is completely at the edge of the platform when she gets her grab. It almost NEVER happens but it seems like the game thinks she isn't on it anymore, so she just does something weird instead. I'm not 100% sure.
Grim Tuesday: It's happened to me too, I just have no real idea why. Like I said, I think it occurs in situations where Nana appears to be "off the platform" or past the edge.
Nintendude: Wobble him and watch him complain about it on SWF later.
For real though, poke and try to slowly obtain ground. Don't over reach and push yourself onto platforms unless you've got a guaranteed hit. From what I remember of playing, against ICs he mostly dips down into shines, then double jumps, runs a lot, and pokes with b-air. He'll go into attack mode but he's willing to run away from an advantageous situation to stay safe and hit with more b-airs and shines rather than fully commit to a finish.
In short, he'll camp your balls off then complain about how you play.
Grim Tuesday: It's happened to me too, I just have no real idea why. Like I said, I think it occurs in situations where Nana appears to be "off the platform" or past the edge.
Nintendude: Wobble him and watch him complain about it on SWF later.
For real though, poke and try to slowly obtain ground. Don't over reach and push yourself onto platforms unless you've got a guaranteed hit. From what I remember of playing, against ICs he mostly dips down into shines, then double jumps, runs a lot, and pokes with b-air. He'll go into attack mode but he's willing to run away from an advantageous situation to stay safe and hit with more b-airs and shines rather than fully commit to a finish.
In short, he'll camp your balls off then complain about how you play.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I've wanted to have a serious set or session with you since APEX 2012 (we couldn't find a TV). So... this is me politely challenging you to a MM. $10 Bo5 MBR recommended ruleset. No character lock - if you wanna bust out Mario fine but be warned. I've got Shroomed & Unknown practice.
If you'd prefer a bunch of seriouslies that's cool too. I just really want to play you and test my skills vs arguably the best ICs on the planet. I also really want to develop the MU further for Sheik - I feel it's one of her least developed MUs and I don't think it's nearly as bad as I thought it was in like 2010-2011. I'm also just itching to play good people in general lately
So help me get me fix