Social General Ice Climber Chat

[Fly_Amanita]

You can afford to do the headbutt pretty quickly after the grab; there isn't much need to wait. If you do this, then you do need to delay the first tilt a bit, though.

My usual wobble input: grab -> wait a very brief amount of time, fairly close to a fourth of a second -> hit A (for the first headbutt and nothing else) -> wait about half a second (maybe a little less than that), during which time I slightly tilt the stick forward or down -> start hitting A at whatever rhythm I plan on wobbling at (I like doing it a little slower than most others, I think around 150bpm).

As for maintaining a wobble: make sure you can maintain a steady tempo. If you're messing up in the middle of a wobble, you're probably rushing or otherwise falling out of rhythm. This is one of the upsides of having a song in mind.

 

[Wobbles]

Yeah half a second was an overstatement. But if you don't wait out at least a LITTLE of Nana's grab-lag then the timing won't be on.

It doesn't really matter how long you wait as long as they don't wiggle out, because you CAN wobble as long as Nana is just standing there. Her jab->tilt WILL sync up around your headbutt. But the faster the better, because any wise opponent will be wiggling the **** out of your grab.

 

[Tomber]

Here is a good example of a fast set up. Same set.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL_qXCKxw84&t=12m54s

I've just done some testing too, and I still really don't think you have wait. Try this:

Frame perfect wobble set up:

Slightly tilt the stick forward and grab -> press and hold A (if you hold down an action while Nana is in her grabbing animation she will do this move as soon as her grab animation has ended, Aka grab desync). If done right Nana will do a f-tilt on the first frame possible after the grab animation has enden. Now press A on the first frame possible after Popo has ended his headbut/pummel animation and keep it going at around 200 BPM still tilting the stick forward.

No need to wait really. Try it yourself.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Practice with a metronome, then gather yourself a bunch of music at 200bpm and listen to it when you play tournament.

I do this.
But i still mess up.
I may try it at a slower BPM and see if that helps.

Fly does preforming it at 150 bpm leave less room for error?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I think the reason doing it slowly is easier for me is that I'm not going to accidentally hit A too quickly once and skip a tilt. Also, if I'm being really absent-minded, I tend to rush, and going slowly from the get-go makes that less of a problem.

 

[Tomber]

Practice with a metronome, then gather yourself a bunch of music at 200bpm and listen to it when you play tournament.

I find that you are not always able to hear the game sound while being at tournaments, so being able to wobble without in game sounds is really good. Furthermore, listening to music with the right tempo while playing doesn't really work because you might have to wait for a beat before you can start which can cost you important time. You can listen to the music when you don't play to learn the timing though.

150 bpm is too slow, btw. 180-220 works, but If you tend to rush then praticing it at lower bpm might be a fine idea.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Yea I think my problem is probably that I rush.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Okay, after sitting down with a metronome a bit, it turns out that my preferred timing is actually about 190 bpm. Apparently I suck at approximating bpms. But yeah, it's still near the slow end of the spectrum.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I think my problem is that I can get it for a good 40% and I'm like OMG IM WOBBLING, which then costs me to lose the rhythm lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I can't play tournament melee without music. Game sounds make me play worse, and I've proven this fact on many occasions. Music has more affect on my game than treants

 

[iRobinhoood]

I can somewhat relate to Wobbles' frustration with this character. The severity of punishes for missed opportunities/mistakes is just too damn high.

Had some problems getting grabs tonight, I kept light shielding wat duh eff?

I have also discovered that the difficulty of wobbling in an actual match is exponentially higher than by urself on lvl 1 cpu's.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

wobbling is better practiced on humans by far.... unless they dont mash. it helps alot to just practice different timings not specific ones just play around with the timing and against humans if you are worried about screwing it up and not getting a stock 40-60% off of a grab. your not actually losing an opportunity to wobble you are just not capitalizing to the fullest extent. unless you are playing really good opponents just the idea of being wobbled can make them sd. lvl 1 cpu also reinforce the behavior of just walking up and grabbing them, something that will cost you many games if you are not aware of.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Hey guys DO YOU CHAINGRAB IN FRIENDLIES?!!?!

I had to deal with this yesterday when somebody asked m to pick ICs. I was using chaingrabs (like dair cgs mostly, but also handoff and d-throw regrab) and then I said that I didn't want to chaingrab because it made the match less fun.

But one of my friends brought up that if I didn't chaingrab, it wasn't good practice for him.

How do you guys approach this issue?

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

Friendlies should be fun... how dont you have fun doing CG's its not like their cheap.
just freeze glitch your friend, call him jelly and unplug his controller. also the only thing your friend would be practicing is getting out of your CG's which is pretty obvious which way to DI/ mash harder lol
play friendlies. have fun.
practicing CG's in friendlies is important though because it builds consistancy and you can learn how they get out/ how to punish that

 

[choknater]

Hey guys DO YOU CHAINGRAB IN FRIENDLIES?!!?!

I had to deal with this yesterday when somebody asked m to pick ICs. I was using chaingrabs (like dair cgs mostly, but also handoff and d-throw regrab) and then I said that I didn't want to chaingrab because it made the match less fun.

But one of my friends brought up that if I didn't chaingrab, it wasn't good practice for him.

How do you guys approach this issue?

if you want to help him, help him

if you want to have fun, just let him know, and continue having fun

nobody has ever made that complaint to me, but i always seem to subconsciously let them know that if i'm cging, i'm trying hard, and if i'm doing other stuff, i'm experimenting/being fancy

 

[ChivalRuse]

I can chaingrab fine whether or not I practice them. It's a matter of whether or not THEY want practice getting out of chaingrabs.

But yea pretty much what choknater said is how I feel. I'm sure I'll just end up doing what he does.

 

[kd-]

Some of my friends hate playing my ICs for the reason of chain grabs =/

 

[choknater]

what u can do is teach them how to get out of it

and i try to make a fun experience out of it since i know getting cg'd is not fun

i guess i'm a nice guy smasher

for example, whenever i play a falcon in a friendly, i'm like "oooooo i got this. i got infinites"

then they try to avoid getting grabbed, so they play better

then when i grab them, i say, "see if u can get out of this ahahahha"

then i do the reverse cg until 200+ until they learn to SDI out lol

but also, if they get out because i messed up, i let them know "i messed up"

this is why all the falcons around me know how to get out.... LOL

 

[Wobbles]

If you are playing friendlies to goof off, then don't CG.

But if you're trying to practice for a tournament, play like you would in the tournament. It's important you practice your CGs in a live-fire environment.

It helps to let your opponent know and make sure they're cool with it though. But yeah, what's the point of training against your ICs if you aren't playing them the way they would be played in tournament?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Exactly. I feel like I've been holding myself back by not playing ICs as much as I could.

 

[Tomber]

What Wobbles said. I mostly goes for hand offs in friendlies when I get a grab, even if I don't stand at a ledge. If Nana does a forward- or down-throw, then you can go for the regrab. If you think she will do a up-throw then you can go to a platform and do silly stuff. Same ideas goes for back-throw. A lot of hilarious stuff can happen off a random hand off.

Other times, when my opponent wants me to play for real, I go for wobbling every time I get a grab. Then we agree he has lost once I get the wobbling going and I throw him off stage for the KO.

Most people I play with already know how to DI out of the (reverse) Dair CGs and the normal down-throw CG so I don't use those in friendlies often. You should only use these CGs if you think you know how your opponent is going to DI anyway. They are only useful for mind games and against people who don't know how to DI out of them. I don't think you should use them against potential tournament opponents unless you don't see them as treats even if they ask for CG practice. But then again it isn't really that big of a deal.

 

[Wobbles]

Eh, I just finish it out and KO them. Getting the finisher at 150 is important to not screw up too. And if you let them out, they should be happy to fight you at 150 percent and try to outplay you to take your stock, to teach you a lesson.

Just play it out like you would if it were a tournament match.

 

[Tomber]

If we both agree that he has lost the stock then why shouldn't we go for the early KO? I typical wobble for 50%, smash them off the stage, and they DI to SD. It saves a lot of time.

 

[Wobbles]

He hasn't lost the stock though. You haven't finished it out.

In tournament I basically had a similar agreement with Cactuar. And he ended up assuming I had him dead, then killed himself after one I actually *failed at*, then was like, "wait, what?" and that screwed him up more. He shoulda just let me KO him and dealt with it normally, because there are cases where I screw it up and they might make a difference.

Just do it. All the way. If it's what you have to do in tournament, make that what you do in training. Your opponent may end up having to recover after a screwed up infinite! You might have to end up clutching out the stock. He's not lost the stock because *he hasn't lost the stock*.

 

[choknater]

yea

that discrepancy between CG or KO between 100~130 really scares me lol. i want that extra damage, but i know they might DI properly and escape. i try to get that read a lot in friendlies and mix em up as much as possible, just so that it becomes second nature to me in tournament

i still cant wobble properly lol

190 bpm? i'll try it

 

[Fly_Amanita]

A grab at 100% should pretty much always mean death. Against a floaty, just charge usmash and dthrow/uthrow into it. Against other characters, charge fsmash. There is almost never a need to do any mix-ups at such high percentages.

 

[Tomber]

@Wobbles:

Al right, I see your point. I've tried sometime like that too. Not in tournament though.
I just don't feel like doing wobbling in friendlies unless my opponents wants me to because it ruins the flow of the match, which kind of can be prevented by doing what I said.

Btw, I just had a pretty silly idea now that we are talking about wobbling. For how long time are you guys able to wobble without messing up? I just gave it a go for fun and I messed up after 8 min and 48 seconds on my first try. I'm sure I can do a lot better, but then it's not of much use, haha.

Speaking of stupid ideas, have you tried synced blizzard off the stage for edgeguarding? Like jumping off the stage and blizzard? I haven't, but I'll try it out next time I get to play someone. It probably won't work.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

i have legit tried double blizzard off the ledge on humans, its a suicude stock for some chars(falco lol) but characters like fox can DI up+away and still make it back. the only way you could make it back is if you had max side-b mash, upb b loses nana. double jump double blizzard on stage or plats covers more space than double fairs when you want to defend your self in the air(falcon lol) but will leave you in landing lag.
ruins the flow? you mean stop their momentum? Ifind the psychological effect of being wobbles to be pretty devastating to momentum at a lower level of play, I cant really say about other levels.

 

[iRobinhoood]

That moment when you pull off your first hand-off.

THAT FEEEEEL

 

[Grim Tuesday]

In regards to chain-grabbing in friendlies... I play a "gay" character in Melee and in Brawl (ICs and Puff respectively) and I've found that to practice for tourneys I need to sometimes gay people in friendlies.

For ICs, I usually go for creative, situational chain-grabs most of the time; and then wobble/dthrow > dair occasionally to keep them fresh in mind. I always hand-off when I get the chance, just because I'm not perfect at it yet.

That moment when you pull off your first hand-off.

THAT FEEEEEL

So good, I remember mine <3

 

[DerfMidWest]

I love the handoff. Its so fun.
Also the dashgrab -> fthrow -> nana regrab thing is fun in friendlies.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

a fun finisher in friendlies is fthrow nana grab popo wavedash forward fsmash, looke really fancy.
can substitute turnaround usmash

 

[Grim Tuesday]

My fancy finishers usually involve hand-off > waveland on platform > fancy KO

or hand-off > fair spike

 

[DerfMidWest]

I like handoff -> bair/fair

I also like using Iceblock lifts when being fancy.

Oh... And UpB KOs too... They ****

 

[choknater]

That moment when you pull off your first hand-off.

THAT FEEEEEL

haha it seriously became so easy after playing brawl

but now that i haven't played brawl ic's in a year... i miss it a lot more................

 

[DerfMidWest]

Ew....
Thats so lame...

 

[Binx]

I just did a pretty cool combo, 0% grab on falco dthrow upsmash fair nana iceblock which knocked them up into regrab, then dthrow iceblockhammer hit into fsmash, was like 100 percent KO or something like that.

 

[Wobbles]

A grab at 100% should pretty much always mean death. Against a floaty, just charge usmash and dthrow/uthrow into it. Against other characters, charge fsmash. There is almost never a need to do any mix-ups at such high percentages.

This! I am bad about this because sometimes I get excited and just want to kill the other person.

For your hard KO throws (IDGAF ABOUT YOUR DI SON) learn f-throw f-smash. F-throw does more than d-throw pushes them slightly to the side, and you don't have to worry about different character timings from weight. Pretty much always the best.

For floaties, sometimes when you are on slopes or at the edge of the stage or a platform, the d-throw will behave weirdly and send them extra to the side. So if you grab somebody at like 90 percent on a platform for some odd reason, learn u-throw u-smash. The u-smash will interrupt the u-throw, and the damage you don't get will be slightly mitigated by the increased height. And it's guaranteed unless your u-smash is really decayed for some reason, then it doesn't interrupt.

I mean, for friendlies? Messing with DI and doing goofy stuff is always fun. I like hitting people with d-throw->reverse d-air->d-smash. Sends them the wrong way, hits quick, hard to smash DI... overall a great combo for screwing up somebody's brain.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I use the reverse dair dsmash on Falcon, mainly.

 

[Kyu Puff]

For your hard KO throws (IDGAF ABOUT YOUR DI SON) learn f-throw f-smash. F-throw does more than d-throw pushes them slightly to the side, and you don't have to worry about different character timings from weight. Pretty much always the best.

Wouldn't d-throw -> (almost) fully charged f-smash or u-smash still kill heavy characters earlier?