Social General Ice Climber Chat

[john!]

i think this is because peach, as a character, is incredibly and deceivingly versatile. the different properties of her moves and movement give her answers to nearly everything in the game...





except maybe puff.

LOL

i found this hilarious for some reason

 

[DerfMidWest]

ICs can short hop->fast fall faster than you probably think. Also, I delay the n-air as much as possible, to create as little time between the hit and the l-cancel as I can.

People started DI'ing it up though, so now I just use n-air -> f-smash, since it reaches over your head and sometimes even catches them out of double jumps.

Oh I see...
I'm probably doing it too early then...
Or shroudedone DIs it correctly because he's a *****.
But he usually DIs down and away...
Would that make me unable to regrab?
I could proly just dsmash if he's doing that though, right?

 

[Wobbles]

If he's hitting the ground and canceling hit-stun, then I guess there's no way to follow up. If he's JUST DI'ing down+away and NOT actually getting to interrupt the stun by hitting the ground, then it should make it *easier* to grab him by putting him in front of you.

But I would mess around with the d-smash option since I can't see what's actually happening lol.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Requesting gameplay of Wobbles or of other noteable ICs where you or the player was really on their game.

 

[Binx]

ICs can short hop->fast fall faster than you probably think. Also, I delay the n-air as much as possible, to create as little time between the hit and the l-cancel as I can.

People started DI'ing it up though, so now I just use n-air -> f-smash, since it reaches over your head and sometimes even catches them out of double jumps.

Its funny I just started doing this like 2 weeks ago vs floaties and semi floaties, I just kinda let my mind wander last tournament and I got people with this at least 3-4 times in some really cool situations just by kinda doing stuff on reaction/instinct.

It worked really well vs Marth and vs one of the Falcon's I played, I gimped a falco with it by tapping him off the edge and him jumping into the fsmash, and if i remember correctly I nailed a sheik with it once or twice to set up a better stage position when I was trapped on the ledge.

Also dair is a million billion times better than I ever gave it credit for, if I find myself close to someone and above them I have been throwing it out a lot, also coming off or through platforms I caught a lot of people with dair grabs, dair smashes, dair into roll reads, and dair into other aerials.

 

[Tomber]

yea tomber it's really a curse for us haha.

over the years of maining ic's, my "answer" to peach has been constantly changing. fox, falco, marth, sheik, peach ditto, falcon, young link... even trying to power through with ic's. and my levels of success have always changed. […]

Jep, I've been there too, hah. Fox, Sheik, Falcon. I think I'll stick with Peach though.

Peach suits my play style very well because I can play her the same way I play ICs. I can use moves like jab, down-smash, uair, fair, and grab with her more or less the same way as I can with ICs. Furthermore, the way both characters recover and get out of combos are very similar I think. Peach just have more options in both situations. ICs are kind of like Peach. Peach just are more options and is not made of glass. Maybe it is not a convincidence that ICs players like Fly, Nintendude, and myself think our secound best character is Peach. Even Armada considered using ICs as a secondary (against Puff). Vanz used to main ICs too, right?

I think playing other characters is a good way for me to improve, anyway. I’m a very technical ICs player, but lack better spacing. I've been told that a few times. In fact, now that I play Peach I actually think I approach too much with ICs when I should just stay in position. Both Peach and ICs shouldn't really approach in neutral position, which I now realize I tend to do a lot anyway.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Yea VaNz used to main ICs.
And now he uses them a lot when his peach is too rusty to do VaNz things.
'tis how I learned this silly character.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Wow really? How long have you been playing :S

I've only been using ICs for like 3 months or so and people ask for them quite a bit...

It's cause nobody wants to fight a character centered around one-shotting you.

 

[Wenbobular]

No Joe, I'd be perfectly fine playing your ICs but you always play your other characters instead ... ~_~

 

[DoH]

Wobbles you traitor

Joe I come to things, they just never happen.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Come on, now. We all know that secretly people think ICs are annoying to fight against. That includes you Wenbo.

 

[Wenbobular]

Doesn't mean I don't want ICs training <_<

 

[ChivalRuse]

Well, practice against lvl 1 ics then.

I hear level 1 nana is smarter than human controlled nana.

 

[DerfMidWest]

My nana learned to combo all by herself. I'm so proud :3

 

[iRobinhoood]

Requesting gameplay of Wobbles or of other noteable ICs where you or the player was really on their game.

Just a repost if no one saw it. Don't mean to spam I promise <3

 

[DerfMidWest]

@robin:
I like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foceGFKAKc8

 

[KirbyKaze]

Wobbles Im gonna play Jetfour on saturday, what is his weakness?

Peanut butter.

If you're going to have an anti-Peach character, you must train that character HEAVILY to beat Peach. I've mentioned it before somewhere else, but your comfort in a matchup should weigh more than the matchup ratio when deciding who to play. I have played too much ICs v Peach to know how to play against her with almost anybody else. I've got *some* experience using higher tier characters... but then, GO FIGURE, most Peaches know more about fighting Fox with Peach than I know about fighting Peach with my Fox. So while I'm second guessing myself and trying to construct a battle plan--and it's interfering with ACTUALLY PLAYING--the Peach is just doing her thing and getting ahead.

Keep that in mind if you're going to train a counterpick.

To add to this...

If you play a weird character it's probably best to just learn the MU as best you can with the weird character so you have shock value and a lot of experience backing up your skills. Much better than going in with a character you barely use in an effort to cheese CP the opponent. Not that this comes up often (especially with Peaches) but specific character CPs also open up opportunities for people to double-blind you (and if your super anti-Peach Sheik has to fight their Falco that can be awkward).

Having confidence that your solo character can beat anything that's thrown at it is how people like Wobbles take down high caliber Peaches like MacD and VaNz. It can be done. ICs may lose the MU but their combos are devastating and their gimmicks are plentiful. Unless someone is planning to go far, it probably makes more sense for most ICs to stick it out, learn it, and expand their repertoire. Hard MUs force you to explore skills you didn't even think you had to scrape wins. And when it pays off, the feeling is unreal.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

matches between fly and s2j in the last year have been great tools for learning the falcon matchup.
this was once the matchup i dreaded but i have had better results in this matchup than any other lately even jiggs

 

[Tomber]

If you play a weird character it's probably best to just learn the MU as best you can with the weird character so you have shock value and a lot of experience backing up your skills. Much better than going in with a character you barely use in an effort to cheese CP the opponent. Not that this comes up often (especially with Peaches) but specific character CPs also open up opportunities for people to double-blind you (and if your super anti-Peach Sheik has to fight their Falco that can be awkward).

Having confidence that your solo character can beat anything that's thrown at it is how people like Wobbles take down high caliber Peaches like MacD and VaNz. It can be done. ICs may lose the MU but their combos are devastating and their gimmicks are plentiful. Unless someone is planning to go far, it probably makes more sense for most ICs to stick it out, learn it, and expand their repertoire. Hard MUs force you to explore skills you didn't even think you had to scrape wins. And when it pays off, the feeling is unreal.

I can agree on this. And you should be able to beat pocket Peaches if you want to be successful as an ICs main anyway. Armada just abused the match up so much that he made it look unwinnable for ICs, but then again, when he says he has never has had any trouble beating an ICs player that might just be because he is an excellent player in general and not only because he plays Peach. Maybe he would beat my other characters just as bad.

I'll stick with Peach for now anyway, even though I might not use her in tournament any time soon. I would like to be able to play other characters besides ICs, and so far she is doing just as good as my ICs against the Peach players I know. However, I believe it's mainly because they don't know know to fight ICs with her tools optimal, but that just kind of proves your point.

 

[Nintendude]

Eh, my problem is a little bit different. I feel like I know the Peach matchup well, but when I play it with ICs I'm horribly inconsistent in my execution, and against Peach there's no room for error. If I'm on point then I don't really have a problem with it, but I am very rarely completely on point. The Peach ditto is a lot more forgiving of technical mistakes.

 

[the_irish_dude]

My nana learned to combo all by herself. I'm so proud :3

rare candy

 

[DerfMidWest]

Dude, you don't even understand...
I got star KO'd and she did Usmash->fsmash and killed my friend.
It was silly.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Having so much trouble with Wobbling on lvl 1 cpu's

Popo Grab -> Popo Headbutt -> Nana dtilt during Popo Headbutt

Duh dah Duh dah Duh dah Duh dah


But they always break out of it. Is there any slow mo vids of wobbling?

Also technical question I have. Why doesn't my opponent always stand up when I jab reset them? Did I hit them too late? Too early?

 

[DerfMidWest]

I actually have a wobbling problem as well.
I have no rhythm. I'm bad at holding beats.
Are there visual cues i can use to learn the timing better?

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

jab reset isnt 100% effective, this applies for every character

 

[Wobbles]

Ugh, I was coming close to beating Armada but I could never clinch it out. He wiggles extremely fast (and I've developed some tools to fight that but haven't gotten the chance to try them on him) and he always seems to clutch an opening towards the end of games. I worked him down to 2/1 stocks over a long series of friendlies, but he's got a mind like a steel trap so where I'm getting nervous and making impulsive decisions to try and finish, he's just waiting for the right moment.

I could do it, I think. But I'll need to up my mental game/consistency to be on par with his, and babysit the hell out of my Nana.

 

[Tomber]

Al right, I just have to play better than, I guess. I have not played his Peach that much in friendlies, but I've played him in tournament two times where I got 2/3 stocked both times even though I was playing on point.

Eh, my problem is a little bit different. I feel like I know the Peach matchup well, but when I play it with ICs I'm horribly inconsistent in my execution, and against Peach there's no room for error. If I'm on point then I don't really have a problem with it, but I am very rarely completely on point. The Peach ditto is a lot more forgiving of technical mistakes.

My point was more that we both consider using Peach in the Peach match up as for the time being. You probably know the ICs/Peach match up better.

 

[Wobbles]

For the wobbling questions; you need to wait a tiny bit because, don't forget, Nana grabs when you do... and if your grab connects, her grab must whiff. Therefore she's in a little bit of lag from missing her grab. Headbutting RIGHT AWAY means her tilt will not end up syncing with your headbutts properly. She'll end up doing it too late, the stun will dip into the time when you headbutt for the second time, and then there will be a window in between headbutt -> tilt where they can get out.

 

[Binx]

Too good wobbles, any of these recorded?

 

[Tomber]

For the wobbling questions; you need to wait a tiny bit because, don't forget, Nana grabs when you do... and if your grab connects, her grab must whiff. Therefore she's in a little bit of lag from missing her grab. Headbutting RIGHT AWAY means her tilt will not end up syncing with your headbutts properly. She'll end up doing it too late, the stun will dip into the time when you headbutt for the second time, and then there will be a window in between headbutt -> tilt where they can get out.

Are you sure? I've never experienced that. How big is this window?
Also, if you don't headbut right away, doesn't that just make the window between the grab and the first headbut even bigger? I always start it right away and I don't think I've experienced that they would escape once they are in stun from the first headbut. Might be wrong, though.

 

[Nintendude]

Wobbles is totally right. Grab, wait like a half second, then press A and immediately start pushing the stick forwards just a tad, then tap A at 200 BPM (you can push the stick all the way forward now).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

^This is the most concise and exact explanation I've heard for how to wobble.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I can set the wobble up...
I just can't keep it...
And they break out around 100% or so...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Do you concentrate on the visual and audio cues when you do it? I find I don't mess it up if I zone out and just focus on my mental metronome.

Dunno if other people are the same.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I dun't has mental metronome...
I learn everything in this game through visual cues.

When i try practicing wobbling via metronome I become 1000x worse at it .-.

 

[Tomber]

Wobbles is totally right. Grab, wait like a half second, then press A and immediately start pushing the stick forwards just a tad, then tap A at 200 BPM (you can push the stick all the way forward now).

I just can't see why you would want to wait. Do you do a normal jab with Nana before f/d-tilt'ing? Like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B18EuHxBn1w&t=0m19s

If so, then that's really not the fastest way to start it.

If you don't jab, you probably mean waiting a bit like in this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL_qXCKxw84&t=2m26s

I think you should it like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL_qXCKxw84&t=2m46s

In the first clip I wait a little before I start wobbling. In the second I do it right away. The latter one looks less escapable to me, so why should you wait? Do you think the player I grabbed could've escaped the grab in between the first headbut and the first f-tilt in the last clip?

 

[Nintendude]

You still waited in your second clip. Maybe half a second is a little more than necessary, but you definitely can't grab and instantly start going at 200 BPM.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

The last link you posted was only possible because you were already desynced.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I dun't has mental metronome...
I learn everything in this game through visual cues.

When i try practicing wobbling via metronome I become 1000x worse at it .-.

Practice with a metronome, then gather yourself a bunch of music at 200bpm and listen to it when you play tournament.

 

[Tomber]

I find that you are not always able to hear the game sound while being at tournaments, so being able to wobble without in game sounds is really good. Furthermore, listening to music with the right tempo while playing doesn't really work because you might have to wait for a beat before you can start which can cost you important time.

Nintendude@ I'll find another example if you still think so. If I waited it was not intentionel. I try to do the jab as fast as possible every time I get a grab.

The last link you posted was only possible because you were already desynced.

I thought someone would say that. I'll find a better example. But no, no desync. You can see Nana's grab animation too.