ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I've been ... playing HoN!
But I quit.
But I quit.
-
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Social General Ice Climber Chat
- Thread starter dj asakura
- Start date
Fortress | Sveet
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To play dota2? :D
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Nope. To play smash. And get a life too.
Fortress | Sveet
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Who needs a life? In dota YOLO doesn't exist
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Hey tourney went reasonably well, and I did really well out of bracket.
I think that I got one set recorded of me getting ***** by a fox, so I'll post that here once it gets uploaded ^^
I think that I got one set recorded of me getting ***** by a fox, so I'll post that here once it gets uploaded ^^
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Awesome, I feel like critiquing
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I don't know if it'll be up tonight.
But my biggest problem was handling shine.
Like it just ***** me.
But my biggest problem was handling shine.
Like it just ***** me.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Kind-of an inevitability in that match-up; but the problem probably stems from
a) being a bit too mechanical and getting punished by shine more often than you should
b) poor out of shield choices
c) poor nana control
Or you could've just been out-read, have to wait and see
a) being a bit too mechanical and getting punished by shine more often than you should
b) poor out of shield choices
c) poor nana control
Or you could've just been out-read, have to wait and see
Binx
Smash Master
Im bad at this game, I got owned by Jackie, I just didn't know what to do.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I'm fairly certain that he just kind of figured out my problems really fast... Because I did alright first game then got ***** second game...
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Fox is a nightmare for me to fight. I generally have found that desynced blizzards do a lot to cut down fox's aggression and allow me to lead into situations I'm comfortable with more easily. Reactively SH autocancelling bairs can beat out most of Fox's nonsense too. And dash attack is good if you can read his approaches decently well.
If you do happen to get shined by Fox, the best thing for you to do is try to regroup without panicking too much. I find that I tend to panic when Fox shines me and that just makes it easier for him to open me up.
If you do happen to get shined by Fox, the best thing for you to do is try to regroup without panicking too much. I find that I tend to panic when Fox shines me and that just makes it easier for him to open me up.
I necro'ed my blog thread, but in case nobody notices it (since this is the only important thread in the forum lol) I started a new blog. Please check it out.
Not that there is anything there yet. But it will be on either a weekly or 2x-a-week schedule for essays, articles, ideas, and things. I have lots of stuff to talk about.
Not that there is anything there yet. But it will be on either a weekly or 2x-a-week schedule for essays, articles, ideas, and things. I have lots of stuff to talk about.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Hype :>
I love reading wobbles things ^^
Oh... And is it not possible to turn around upB with sopo?
Because I am not able to .-.
I love reading wobbles things ^^
Oh... And is it not possible to turn around upB with sopo?
Because I am not able to .-.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
You can't turn around up-b without nana.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Alright. I didn't think so, just wanted to make sure.
Anyway, it turns out all the video files from the tournament got screwed up and are basically unwatchable, but I'll have some videos next week from a smashfest using my own setup (which actually works)
Anyway, it turns out all the video files from the tournament got screwed up and are basically unwatchable, but I'll have some videos next week from a smashfest using my own setup (which actually works)
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Cool beans. I'll try to help out if I get a chance.
Fortress | Sveet
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Robbles, can you link to your blog? Is that the one you started ~2 years ago and talked about handling anger and stuff in game?
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
what are the pros and cons of ICs in teams?
What is their general role?
How do I support my partner?
Etc.
I've got like no experience with ICs in doubles. I'm aware that they aren't the best doubles character, but I'd like to learn to use them in doubles none the less.
What is their general role?
How do I support my partner?
Etc.
I've got like no experience with ICs in doubles. I'm aware that they aren't the best doubles character, but I'd like to learn to use them in doubles none the less.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Proper blizzard/iceblock desyncs are really hard to get around. This character is odd.
Fortress | Sveet
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Honestly I think fox is the only real viable teammate for ICs. He runs around the platforms while you control the ground. Everyone else just restricts your movement (maybe falcon, peach or puff could work, but def not as well as fox)
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Yea i noticed that fox/ICs worked rather well when I played it...
Peach/ICs seems good, but I don't have enough experience.
Never tried falcon.
Peach/ICs seems good, but I don't have enough experience.
Never tried falcon.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
haha you main peach though! it's easy for you. just throw a turnip and/or float above their heads
yea peach ics is decent
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
I use Fox in teams; but I've teamed with Falco before and didn't find it a very pleasant experience.
Fox and Ganon as partners worked out better for me.
Fox and Ganon as partners worked out better for me.
In order:
Taj/ICs
Fox/ICs
Peach/ICs
Other
Taj: I say Taj instead of Marth because he's the only one I'd trust to execute well enough as my ally. Marth has the capacity to wall people off, gimp hard, get tippers, and you can actually help him recover because his low up+b, when angled properly, will not kill ice-blocks, so he can do all the aiming. He dominates air-space enough with his sword that he can focus high, and he's got light hits that are easy to connect with to disrupt combos on you.
Fox: Because it's Fox. Covers the hard killing power that you need in-case people are DI'ing your random smashes. Can shine people down and just keep you safe while you CG. If you set up an edgeguard, he's fast enough to switch targets, go for shine-spikes or b-air stuff, and then YOU can create walls with blizzard and u-air to stop the other guy from running through you and interrupting. He also has big ways to capitalize when you're being abused by ICs biggest doubles nightmares -- Falcon, Peach, Samus, Ganon. You can be his stock tank, with good DI, and he has the mobility to handle 2v1s during your sometimes lengthy and arduous recovery sessions.
ICs don't save him very well though, unless you can get in position to blizzard.
Peach: She can dominate airspace almost entirely, save you, save your Nana, and you guys can switch as aggressors because both of you have tanking capability. She's Peach. Underneath Fox because... well, it's Fox, and she works better with harder KO'ers than ICs. It's easy to get tangled up in her d-smash though, since you use a lot of ground-space when maneuvering. Still, I'm used to it by teaming with DoH and I like the synergy. Main weaknesses are Fox, Ganon, and Puff; the first two because of the KO power, mitigating your stock tankiness, Puff because she can play a hard zoning game that both characters have a tough time cracking.
Others:
I don't like IC's + Puff, because even though it seems alright with a gameplan of Puff taking the skies while ICs take the ground and just crap hitboxes everywhere together, they suffer a MASSIVE weakness because ICs aren't actually that great at getting grabs against experienced foes, which ends up eliminating one of Puffs biggest 2v2 strengths (the grab-rest). Then again I did enjoy a few teams friendlies teaming with HBox so maybe I just need more Puff duo experience to judge it.
Falcon's alright but he ends up on the ground in your area of control too much. You end up having to exercise LOTS of restraint to avoid wrecking him, and his speed+hitboxes+your rotundity = easy for him to hit you, as well. And this leaves you very susceptible to teams that involve Fox. Which is lots of teams.
Ganon: Never really done it. Might be cool. Again though, major issues with Fox.
Samus: BKLJHAUEIATGjg;kldhaofi
Doc: Maybe? Could be cool.
I really am not much a fan of teaming with other characters. I HAVE been digging the few times I teamed with Axe's Pikachu, because he shares many strengths of Fox but doesn't need saving on his recovery nearly as much (which as mentioned ICs aren't great at). His up-air works like Fox's shine too, in that it grounds opponents nicely and sets up for potential grab tech chases. That same up-air offers such massive platform control that it really helps cover ICs inability to do so strongly themselves.
I'm kind of a weak teams player though. So my opinions are mostly analytic and theory-craft.
Sveet: Original blog was eskimosister.blogspot.com. New one is at compete-complete.blogspot.com because FREE BLOGS.
Taj/ICs
Fox/ICs
Peach/ICs
Other
Taj: I say Taj instead of Marth because he's the only one I'd trust to execute well enough as my ally. Marth has the capacity to wall people off, gimp hard, get tippers, and you can actually help him recover because his low up+b, when angled properly, will not kill ice-blocks, so he can do all the aiming. He dominates air-space enough with his sword that he can focus high, and he's got light hits that are easy to connect with to disrupt combos on you.
Fox: Because it's Fox. Covers the hard killing power that you need in-case people are DI'ing your random smashes. Can shine people down and just keep you safe while you CG. If you set up an edgeguard, he's fast enough to switch targets, go for shine-spikes or b-air stuff, and then YOU can create walls with blizzard and u-air to stop the other guy from running through you and interrupting. He also has big ways to capitalize when you're being abused by ICs biggest doubles nightmares -- Falcon, Peach, Samus, Ganon. You can be his stock tank, with good DI, and he has the mobility to handle 2v1s during your sometimes lengthy and arduous recovery sessions.
ICs don't save him very well though, unless you can get in position to blizzard.
Peach: She can dominate airspace almost entirely, save you, save your Nana, and you guys can switch as aggressors because both of you have tanking capability. She's Peach. Underneath Fox because... well, it's Fox, and she works better with harder KO'ers than ICs. It's easy to get tangled up in her d-smash though, since you use a lot of ground-space when maneuvering. Still, I'm used to it by teaming with DoH and I like the synergy. Main weaknesses are Fox, Ganon, and Puff; the first two because of the KO power, mitigating your stock tankiness, Puff because she can play a hard zoning game that both characters have a tough time cracking.
Others:
I don't like IC's + Puff, because even though it seems alright with a gameplan of Puff taking the skies while ICs take the ground and just crap hitboxes everywhere together, they suffer a MASSIVE weakness because ICs aren't actually that great at getting grabs against experienced foes, which ends up eliminating one of Puffs biggest 2v2 strengths (the grab-rest). Then again I did enjoy a few teams friendlies teaming with HBox so maybe I just need more Puff duo experience to judge it.
Falcon's alright but he ends up on the ground in your area of control too much. You end up having to exercise LOTS of restraint to avoid wrecking him, and his speed+hitboxes+your rotundity = easy for him to hit you, as well. And this leaves you very susceptible to teams that involve Fox. Which is lots of teams.
Ganon: Never really done it. Might be cool. Again though, major issues with Fox.
Samus: BKLJHAUEIATGjg;kldhaofi
Doc: Maybe? Could be cool.
I really am not much a fan of teaming with other characters. I HAVE been digging the few times I teamed with Axe's Pikachu, because he shares many strengths of Fox but doesn't need saving on his recovery nearly as much (which as mentioned ICs aren't great at). His up-air works like Fox's shine too, in that it grounds opponents nicely and sets up for potential grab tech chases. That same up-air offers such massive platform control that it really helps cover ICs inability to do so strongly themselves.
I'm kind of a weak teams player though. So my opinions are mostly analytic and theory-craft.
Sveet: Original blog was eskimosister.blogspot.com. New one is at compete-complete.blogspot.com because FREE BLOGS.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Thanks wobbles, thats incredibly informative ^^
i've actually been wanting to try ICs/Pika, but there are no (decent) pika players here
i've actually been wanting to try ICs/Pika, but there are no (decent) pika players here
choknater
Smash Obsessed
have had bad experiences with ic's/doc and ic's/ganon (hmw and bizzarro flame respectively)
ic's/doc is overall kinda slow
ic's/ganon sounds fun but neither of them really like to be and platforms, and they are also both slow and can't help each other when they need it
good post wobbles
falcon is good if he really tries hard not to hit us...
puff is good by nature of being the best teams character haha. puff ic's is super janky but it actually does work if both players are defending themselves well. i say this because puff and nana both die at such low percents, so they really need to stay alive.
ic's/doc is overall kinda slow
ic's/ganon sounds fun but neither of them really like to be and platforms, and they are also both slow and can't help each other when they need it
good post wobbles
falcon is good if he really tries hard not to hit us...
puff is good by nature of being the best teams character haha. puff ic's is super janky but it actually does work if both players are defending themselves well. i say this because puff and nana both die at such low percents, so they really need to stay alive.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Good analysis, Rob. Fly and I will be trying out the ICs/Peach team at The Big House 2 next month. I'm sure we'll try double ICs at some point for fun vs weak teams and in friendlies, but I'm expecting that to be pretty bad vs. most team compositions.
On a side note, I tried out ICs/Sheik when I teamed with KirbyKaze at Impulse. Sheik does a really good job at keeping ICs' teams horrors at bay (Ganon, Falcon, Samus, Peach). She's also good against the Mario Bros, and while I don't have much experience playing vs. them teams, I can imagine Luigi being really annoying otherwise. We got a mediocre 7th, but our losses were respectable (Hbox/Kage and m2k/toph). The m2k/Toph set was very winnable, but double spacies was not fun to play against (but this would be the case with almost any team). Every other team we demolished pretty easily by just using ICs to get them off stage and then have Sheik edgeguard. It's also relatively easy to save her from edgehogs with ice blocks.
Also, Chu/Boss (ICs/Doc) apparently used to be a dominant MD/VA team. Still not sold on them being a good team composition though because it's Chu and he's a teams mastermind. Pretty sure Chu/Kage also did extremely well when they teamed together.
On a side note, I tried out ICs/Sheik when I teamed with KirbyKaze at Impulse. Sheik does a really good job at keeping ICs' teams horrors at bay (Ganon, Falcon, Samus, Peach). She's also good against the Mario Bros, and while I don't have much experience playing vs. them teams, I can imagine Luigi being really annoying otherwise. We got a mediocre 7th, but our losses were respectable (Hbox/Kage and m2k/toph). The m2k/Toph set was very winnable, but double spacies was not fun to play against (but this would be the case with almost any team). Every other team we demolished pretty easily by just using ICs to get them off stage and then have Sheik edgeguard. It's also relatively easy to save her from edgehogs with ice blocks.
Also, Chu/Boss (ICs/Doc) apparently used to be a dominant MD/VA team. Still not sold on them being a good team composition though because it's Chu and he's a teams mastermind. Pretty sure Chu/Kage also did extremely well when they teamed together.
Yeah, from my experience the ICs/Shiek team is pretty good. Not as good as Fox, but still one of ICs better team mates. Falco does a great job too.
ICs/Doc is pretty bad IMO, though I have not played it much.
I'll look at the floating hight stuff you guys mentioned on the previous page though. That might help.
I got 7th in the tournament, btw. Not that great, but I lost to some good players. Top 3 was Armada, Leffen, and IVP I believe.
ICs/Doc is pretty bad IMO, though I have not played it much.
I'm pretty much in the same situation. I played against Armada in bracket this weekend, and I can't really see how ICs should win when the Peach plays the match up right. I can handle Peach players who think they win the match up by using down-smash all the time, but I'm pretty helpless when they are floating out of range. I feel like I should try to approach, but even when I get a connect I'll most likely lose Nana/ a stock too. At the moment my own Peach is doing much better against other Peaches, so perhaps I should just pick her against Peach mains. Armada gave me a few ideas on how to beat Peach, but he also said that he can't see how ICs should be able to win the match up. FC fair is just so good in the match up because Nana can't tech.
I'll look at the floating hight stuff you guys mentioned on the previous page though. That might help.
I got 7th in the tournament, btw. Not that great, but I lost to some good players. Top 3 was Armada, Leffen, and IVP I believe.
GhllieShdeKnife
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 687
i find that shielding alot in teams really helps when you are being pressured in teams. if you get grabbed out of your shield there is a chance for nana to save you and a chance for your teammate to save you. anything other than upthrow upair is unlikely to kill you out of a throw. i find i am often the target in teams and shielding really keeps them busy. even with a broken shield you have a teammate to save you and if you still have nana she can lightshield after you broke your shield and protect you long enough for your opponent to recover. this strat works really well with a fox teammate that can hit and run your opponents that are trying to capitalize on you shielding. if the fox i being focused on you can be more aggresive with wd downsmashes and grab the ledge more for surprise edgehogs on falco, shiek, falcon and marth. also a competent fox on the ledge with you edgeguarding a little ways from the edge can take away all recovery options for spacies as long as you can land the dsmash reliably
Not only did I forget Sheik is a character, I have almost zero experience teaming with her. From a theory-craft perspective, I like the fact that she doesn't have a lot of hard hits that she'll *accidentally* murder you with. In the ICs/Sheik matchup she depends a lot on hitting you with f-air after you've doublejumped to secure her KOs, and if you're off the level and she does that to you, you know it's okay to break your teammate's kneecaps
choknater
Smash Obsessed
yea tomber it's really a curse for us haha.
over the years of maining ic's, my "answer" to peach has been constantly changing. fox, falco, marth, sheik, peach ditto, falcon, young link... even trying to power through with ic's. and my levels of success have always changed. sometimes i try fox and i lose because i mess up. sometimes i pick falcon, and it works for a round and then i forget the matchup completely once she catches on. i've always had that back and forth kind of success. i went from beating alan in tournament with ic's to losing to him with most of my characters in friendlies.
i think this is because peach, as a character, is incredibly and deceivingly versatile. the different properties of her moves and movement give her answers to nearly everything in the game...
except maybe puff. i have yet to try that, and now that i think of it, i will try it next time.
over the years of maining ic's, my "answer" to peach has been constantly changing. fox, falco, marth, sheik, peach ditto, falcon, young link... even trying to power through with ic's. and my levels of success have always changed. sometimes i try fox and i lose because i mess up. sometimes i pick falcon, and it works for a round and then i forget the matchup completely once she catches on. i've always had that back and forth kind of success. i went from beating alan in tournament with ic's to losing to him with most of my characters in friendlies.
i think this is because peach, as a character, is incredibly and deceivingly versatile. the different properties of her moves and movement give her answers to nearly everything in the game...
except maybe puff. i have yet to try that, and now that i think of it, i will try it next time.
If you're going to have an anti-Peach character, you must train that character HEAVILY to beat Peach. I've mentioned it before somewhere else, but your comfort in a matchup should weigh more than the matchup ratio when deciding who to play. I have played too much ICs v Peach to know how to play against her with almost anybody else. I've got *some* experience using higher tier characters... but then, GO FIGURE, most Peaches know more about fighting Fox with Peach than I know about fighting Peach with my Fox. So while I'm second guessing myself and trying to construct a battle plan--and it's interfering with ACTUALLY PLAYING--the Peach is just doing her thing and getting ahead.
Keep that in mind if you're going to train a counterpick.
Keep that in mind if you're going to train a counterpick.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
So i discovered that bair ***** vs peach.
I love it soooo much.
Also wobbles, how do you land nair->grab so much? I can never hit people with it successfully
I love it soooo much.
Also wobbles, how do you land nair->grab so much? I can never hit people with it successfully
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
The problem that I face is the lack of Peach players who I can practice with (DoH never comes to smashfests )
)
Nintendude
Smash Hero
ChivalRuse I'll give you Peach practice. I've actually been really interested in learning the matchup from the other perspective.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
In ohio we only have peaches. And marths and sheiks and spacies.
But nothing else.
But nothing else.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
@ Nintendude: LOL. You're actually the first person who has ever voluntarily offered to play against my ICs in friendlies. But I accept.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Wow really? How long have you been playing :S
I've only been using ICs for like 3 months or so and people ask for them quite a bit...
Maybe its because I **** so much
I've only been using ICs for like 3 months or so and people ask for them quite a bit...
Maybe its because I **** so much
ICs can short hop->fast fall faster than you probably think. Also, I delay the n-air as much as possible, to create as little time between the hit and the l-cancel as I can.So i discovered that bair ***** vs peach.
I love it soooo much.
Also wobbles, how do you land nair->grab so much? I can never hit people with it successfully
People started DI'ing it up though, so now I just use n-air -> f-smash, since it reaches over your head and sometimes even catches them out of double jumps.
Fortress | Sveet
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*takes notes for when i play wobbles in a few weeks*