Social General Ice Climber Chat

[Finch]

Good stuff wobbles!

I actually feel like yoshis is my best stage against marth. The only time ICs ever have an advantage in the matchup is when you get him offstage, and this will happen much more frequently on yoshis. Plus if he decides to get on platforms then you have like 10 different pokes against him. If he camps under a platform then idk. Maybe nanapult and hit him with popo if he attacks nana?

 

[Wobbles]

Yoshi's is terrific It helps shut down a lot of camping, the odds of you getting an edge grab are high, and grab smashes kill pretty early. Bad DI = early KOs on surprise smashes as well.

It's not really that bad a level for fighting Marth, though it can be tougher to get away if he starts controlling the flow of the match. From my limited experience, it's awful for fighting Luigi

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Apparently I have a hard time transitioning from doubles to singles. I am amazing.

I don't think Yoshi's is that bad against Luigi, although it is harder to camp him there than it is on other neutrals. I'd still rather play Luigi there than on Brinstar or something.

 

[Wobbles]

My problem is he can:

1) Cover the entire level in one wavedash, making it really hard to zone him.
2) Push you off easily with his aerials and smashes.
3) Get assistance from the cloud to reduce potential recovery gimps.

And add that to the advantages he already has in the matchup, it's rough. I agree that Brinstar would be terrible. I actually enjoyed fighting him on Rainbow Cruise because there are lots of opportunities to be beneath him and poke him with u-airs.

 

[Smasher89]

Just let him wavedash in in your predicted/reaction dsmash (faster facing him backwards as you know). Think of the matchup a bit like ICdittos, which means "no" grabs and more dsmash...

 

[Turazrok]

Just let him wavedash in in your predicted/reaction dsmash (faster facing him backwards as you know). Think of the matchup a bit like ICdittos, which means "no" grabs and more dsmash...

He's gonna start expecting it. Then he could go for shieldashing to shield grabs or some crazy junk OoS.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I don't like throwing out random smashes against Luigi since he can punish them really badly. If you have to confront him, fair and dash attack are solid. Also, I think you shouldn't shield unless you absolutely have to since otherwise, you're just asking him to spam unpunishable **** into your shield. He's also really tough to grab and I think you should devote more energy to keeping him at bay or above than you should to grabbing him.

 

[Dogysamich]

Why is this not stuck?

*stick*

__

And I'm sorry to ask this, but I have to ask periodically cause it's the only way I get to find out.

Aside from wobbling and the ledge CG, do the ICs have any chaingrabs on doc?

 

[Turazrok]

Why is this not stuck?

*stick*

__

And I'm sorry to ask this, but I have to ask periodically cause it's the only way I get to find out.

Aside from wobbling and the ledge CG, do the ICs have any chaingrabs on doc?

Lol I don't know :D. They haven't made a cg guide yet. But there's probably one somewhere that works on doc.

 

[ChivalRuse]

How do you guys deal with Falcons who approach with stomp? I know utilt should beat it handily, and net me a grab, for that matter. But for some reason I end up getting caught, and then Nana and I get combo'd simultaneously.

I can't shield grab it because of the shield stun. Nor can I CC grab it like I can do to nair and pseudo do to knee (weak knee).

 

[pockyD]

aside from those two, ICs barely have any reliable CGs altogether aside from vs characters that can be straight dthrown

does reverse dair still work vs falcon and ganon? or have they found a way out

edit: utilt will almost never work vs a stomp; the standard result will be that you lose (they rarely come from straight above) and you'll frequently trade (bad deal for you since utilt has barely any stun til the end, doesn't do much damage, and nana will get popped)

uairs or general unpredictable movement => bair/nair are the ways to go

 

[Kyu Puff]

Falcon and Ganon can escape with SDI up.

 

[Smasher89]

How would Nair beat out falcons stomp? curius since that is a move I have a hard time getting good use of^^.
A well timed wavedashed utilt works fine but might be hard to time sometimes...

Fly- Dont spam it just do it when he wavedashes into you (which probably means frame advantage for you, would be good to check that up though)


ABout chaingrabs for new ICplayers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPTFpBWZbIA

 

[pockyD]

it's pretty much catching him on the way up

once the stomp starts, it's going to be extremely hard to punish, so if you want to fight it you either need to just get out of the way or take away its setups

 

[KirbyKaze]

Aside from wobbling and the ledge CG, do the ICs have any chaingrabs on doc?

N o.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

One of my favorite anti-stomp tactics is to retreat really far back when you think Falcon is going to approach with dair and then grab him right after he lands. It's kind of silly and I'm not sure how reliable it is in general, but I landed a lot of grabs this way when I played Romeo last weekend.

 

[choknater]

yea outspacing falcon and grabbing after he misses an aerial is difficult, but very effective

its much harder than doing it against fox and sheik

but still the same principle

 

[Finch]

I like retreating fair against falcon's dair and knee.

I've found a really effective way to counter falcons approaching with aerials, especially stomp, is to shield it, then watch to see what he does. A lot of falcons will roll immediately after landing, and if you just follow this you can get a grab. A lot of falcons, even good ones, will just run away after l canceling, and you can catch them with a really quick dsmash which they will DI quite badly. They might just jump and do another aerial or do forward b, in which case get *****

 

[Wobbles]

I agree with Finch. It's kind of important, IMO, to play defensively and use your first stock(s) as a gauge for how the Falcon acts once he's closed the distance. If they like to roll or run away, WD'ing out of your shield can be a free stock.

A lot of Falcons will try and roll if you jab them, so if you WD into a jab you can forego trying to link the grab and instead wait for his retreat. Landing grabs off these kinds of setups is pretty psychologically devastating.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

psychologically devastating.

thats my aim.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

i recall wding back and using an up angled ftilt to beat the stomp out one time. doesn't seem reliable.

 

[ChivalRuse]

One thing that can be ****, instead of retreating far back to avoid the stomp and grab, you can just wavedash through him while he's in the air moving toward you. Since stomp has start-up time, the hitbox shouldn't be out until he's nearer toward the end of his jump arc. Then you just wavedash back to your original position and grab him when his stomp ends.

I guess it's risky, sometimes. You could eat a side-b, or whatever. But most Falcons will be hesitant to throw those out randomly because they're associated with a greater risk of getting grabbed.

 

[NJzFinest]

How does Fly do that dash to desynch blizzard thing? He did it a couple of times against Hugs.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

dash-dance - press down-b - profit.

 

[Dogysamich]

*Points up* What plur said.

Being more specific (or how I do it atleast):

1) Dash wherever you want nana to blizzard from (in or out)
2) Dash opposite 1
3) Dash same as 1 (opp. of 2)
4) ~~pause~~ Down + B

What should happen is nana is NOT going to DD (Cause she cant pivot), so while you're doing 2 and 3, she's sliding. You Down+B before you get to the end of it, but you cant down+b during your dash, so you'll just come out and stop (unless you WANT to do something else like a dash attack or a grab while you're doing this, then you're adding steps).

Nana's going to be running with you at this point, so she's technical able to stop and blizzard on your command.

__

If this isn't what you're asking for, my bad.

 

[Jam Stunna]

de-synced blizzard is pretty much my favorite thing to do with ICs.

 

[BC AL]

Incoming noob question
how do u charge nanas smash when popos grabbing?

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

dogy, you have to team with me next time you come to nc! last time, you teamed with gofg. whaddaya say? HERB 3? i'll give you a slice of cheesecake. :3

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Oh ****, activity.

Dash-dance blizzard is cool. It's pretty fast and is a lot less telegraphed than most of the other ways of setting up blizzard.

To charge a smash with Nana when Popo grabs, just have Popo headbutt and input Nana's smash command shortly thereafter.

 

[BC AL]

To charge a smash with Nana when Popo grabs, just have Popo headbutt and input Nana's smash command shortly thereafter.

ahh the magic of headbutting
thanks!

 

[Turazrok]

ahh the magic of headbutting
thanks!

Ice climbers would be idk where on the tier list without pummel lol. It's better than Dsmash obv.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

How should i be playing ice climbers vs falco?

i feel like i'm being uber predictable going to grabs all the time.

what are some good safe-ish ground or air attacks/patterns?

 

[Turazrok]

How should i be playing ice climbers vs falco?

i feel like i'm being uber predictable going to grabs all the time.

what are some good safe-ish ground or air attacks/patterns?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=112413 this.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

So I am trying to figure out a positioning of desynced upsmashs where I can cover the entire platform from below it so no matter where someone techs they get hit by a charged up smash.

Is this doable?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

PMIRL, there are a number of ways I can interpret that, but I don't think what you're trying to do is possible on most platforms that are close to the ground. It might be possible on PS, but I doubt it would be practical since setting up such a de-sync will probably take a fair amount of time.


When I play against Falco, one thing that's different than a lot of other match-ups is that I don't generally like to be in point blank because of Falco's really good shield pressure and good (at least against ICs) grab game. I prefer to maintain a distance that's far enough to harass him with ice blocks and close enough to bait him into approaching. You really won't be grabbing Falco a lot. If the Falco doesn't CC a lot, you can combo into grabs with jab, dash attack, and fair -> jab reset. However, if he does, he can CC shine most of this stuff at low percentages, which is really obnoxious.

A nice trick to keep in mind against Falco is that you can have one IC take a laser and have the other one still able to act. You can use this to do things like fsmash/ftilt such that Popo takes the laser and Nana's fsmash/ftilt hits Falco. There are a number of other amusing and situational de-syncs you can do off lasers, but that's the most important one.

Also, not everything Choknater says in that thread is true if you're good at powershielding lasers.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I was trying to do it on FoD but PS1 its also viable I think like with side by side upsmashes or fmshash on FoD.

I think if there was a fast enough desync this would be good.

 

[BC AL]

two questions!

1. wut should u do after u killed your opponent and they come down the platform with a few seconds of invincibillity frames? i tend to roll past them but that gets predictable....any suggestions?

2. any advice u guys can give me VS ganon?
i think its confirmed that ganon can escape reverse dair chain grabbing as well as normal dair chain grabbing right? wut can i do to maximize each grab's worth after i get a grab? (well besides wobbling)
and im also mad scared to approach ganons because all their aerials tend to push my shield away...
in the odd case it doesnt, they just jab me, therefore, no grab
lastly, i SHOULD be the one camping during this match right? with like ice blocks and stuff?
help? thanks in advance

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I read that guide and it really helped my ICs but i still have a few questions.

*i mostly play vs ganon and CF*

1) what are ICs best approach? if they stay on the ground i can usually jab->w/e or dsmash/fsmash or fair/bair but.... how do i handle someone jumping above that and punishing?

2) how do i handle ganon? his aerials have too much lag to punish directly, and if he jabs i cant even wavedash->shield approach to get closer.

3) what are the most useful ways to desynch? the only one i really do is spotdodge/roll to nana blizzard, and that only works against people who don't notice that thats all i do and run into it.

once i get my hits i can use them pretty well, i just need to have a safer/smarter approach/defense

 

[Wobbles]

Against Ganon, you want to keep yourself at a zone where you can wavedash in and hit him the moment he tries to do an aerial. Pay attention to the timing of his jumps, and then slide in to cut through his aerials during their startup lag. You're not going to punish them even if he whiffs and you definitely won't be getting any kind of shield game against him.

Ganons and Falcons alike both rely on rolls to get themselves away from sticky situations, so get good at reading them. This is where wavedashing out of shield is really useful; people see you in your shield and their instincts tell them that you are immobile. This makes them likely to do things like roll away from you. However, ICs wavedash is so **** good that you can chase every roll in the game and punish it with a grab, which will be unbelievably punishing against a Ganon even if you've only got Popo.

Another interesting (but risky) move against Ganon is sync'ed squall hammer. Lots of hits, lots of damage, the sudden horizontal momentum change is surprising, and it can very easily lead into a grab. At higher percents it can put the opponent on the ground (they almost always miss the tech because of the weird timing) and get you free d-smashes.

The downside is that it's easy to cut through with most attacks, so missing with it is very very punishable. But I like it anyhow, because it's obnoxious.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

hey you can't punish yoshi's roll he has inv frames the whole time and could easily hit you first. I doubt it matters but I just felt I could throw that out there.

Side-B wtf I once played as falco vs my little brother I was lasering him and tryed to pillar him but he got me stuck in the side-B till like 137% and I kept trying to dair him when he was righjt below. The only way to punish it is to wait or out range them or something