Social General Ice Climber Chat

[Pinkie Pie]

Yeah, IC wd isi so ****, I always forget to do it when playing other characters .

Also Vanz, I'm glad you're playing ICs now! Come be my sensei!!

 

[Cia]

Sometimes when I'm sandbagging, I play ICz w/o wavedashing. It's the funniest thing. I had people in tears. Some claiming they've never seen popo's run animation.

Fly - How do you fight Samus? I play against DJN and Alukard.. and it's hell =[

Emily - Smashfest?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I'm still kind of uncomfortable fighting Samus, but I think I'm slowly starting to get the hang of it. Here are a few things I think are important:

-Don't approach her when she's right by the edge. A single dsmash at the edge is often enough to lead to Nana dying, and Popo can't really do anything to Samus. Keep a reasonably safe distance and harass her with ice blocks and maybe blizzard if she's camping the sides.

-Ice blocks are really good in this match-up. They can be used to intercept missiles, which is nice since you can have one ice block cancel a missile and the other one continue towards Samus. It doesn't apply that much pressure, but it's something. Also, if you're in that awkward position a bit outside of Samus' ftilt range, ice blocks can force her to come to you. I really want to emphasize this last point if you're having a hard time getting around walls of ftilt and fsmash.

-KO Samus off the top. Unless you think you can catch Samus off guard with bad DI or trick her when she's recovering, you won't be able to KO Samus off the sides very often. Usmash can KO her at pretty low percentages; that the dthrow animation on Samus is really long helps, since if you grab Samus, you can have Nana charge the usmash a lot longer than she can on most other characters.

I don't want to say much more than that since I'm just getting out of a period where I was consistently getting ***** horribly by Samus, so I'm not that confident in how accurate anything else I could say would be.

I'll post my most recent set against Hugo here whenever that gets uploaded. There were still a lot of stupid things I was doing, but hopefully those videos can give you some ideas.

 

[choknater]

i learned how to play ic's dittos

 

[Fly_Amanita]

You camp and bthrow and stuff.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Dont be too sad Fly its HU(mothereffing)GO hes just so smart.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Oh, I won that set.

I'm more frustrated by Peach than anything else at the moment.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Oh, I won that set.

I'm more frustrated by Peach than anything else at the moment.

Holy **** good ****.


I havent seen the set yet, but I am gunna predict that Hugo didnt missle enough, he never does.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

hey can fox sdi out of d-throw dair and escape? I,m use to d-throw revesre dair but it doesn't work on fox and none of the fun chain throws can be done as fast. I,m going to stop playing around with everyone esle that I like because It's so hard to get in gear when stiwching. Like I would sheild camp as falcon which we all know is a really bad idea. Also any advice on switching up because it ruins my pichu I will WD around down-smashing everything I can touch.

 

[choknater]

boback is actually kinda good against peach!

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Yeah, the fact that Boback does okay against Peach in spite of how much he struggles with some even-ish and good match-ups for ICs bothers me sometimes.

ICG: Fox can get out of any variation of dthrow -> dair really easily.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Fox can hold down and away on the c-stick + shield to escape.

DJN's Samus wrecked me at RoM. I wish I could remember the match better, but he would mostly camp one side of the stage and force me to approach; the idea of camping back harder didn't even occur to me. He used f-tilt to stuff my approaches really well and I don't remember how, but I also ate an excessive amount of d-smashes.

I feel like Peach could be manageable if you bait her into the air. Her options become limited, she loses her cc game, and your approach becomes much safer. I've also found it relatively easy to grab approaching/aerial Peaches for some reason.

 

[Devil Ray]

hmmm, the only thing that's good about that matchup is the fact that she's super slow. i don't think she camps as well as other characters can....but i could be wrong.

do you guys think peach does better against climbers than climbers can do against sheik? bc i think sheik-climbers might be dead even

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Boback runs around short hopping bairs sometimes.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

yeah I just found out about it. it's amazing how fast they can do 40% like in less than a sec. Hey my ice climbers give my other charcters really bad habits, like being really spamy, never dding, sheild camping, stay out of the air, grabs above all, and etc. And also what are the key moves to use vs fox? I mostly down-smash, ice block and tilt. and I can never dash attack. Yeah my ice climbers are really campy and when they can't de-synce they grab spam.

 

[ChivalRuse]

boback is actually kinda good against peach!

I lol'ed so hard when I was watching Boback's set against Connor.

Connor started going on the platforms game 2, and Boback couldn't do squat to him. >_>

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Fun fact:

At the start of game 2, I see that Boback picks PS. Knowing how Connor likes to play (which is perfectly legit despite whatever HMW says!), I inadvertently blurt out "Stupid counterpick" when I'm sitting right behind Boback. This upsets him; hence the pause at the start.

 

[Wobbles]

Fly, do you remember the name of the Peach I MM'ed @ ActiveGamers? I'm pretty sure a few people watched the set but I dunno if you did.

Your Samus advice is pretty sound, really. I'll be honest though, I wouldn't mind approaching a Samus at the edge because you WANT her to d-smash your shield. Punish it with WD out of shield into grab, and she's at the edge for a handoff.

Try approaching her backwards. This gives you lots of good opportunities.

1) It baits smashes more; WD out of shield is not commonly used. Approaching backwards into your shield WILL make people more aggressive against you. Against Samus, her d-tilt, d-smash and f-smash can all be punished with WD into grab.
2) F-tilt is punishable from shield with short hop b-air.
3) Sets up the tilt-guard de-sync. If the Samus is trying to completely zone you, you can wavedash outside her range, tilt, and then bring up a blizzard. If she tries to reach into it, she has a high chance of eating a smash or grab afterwards.

Against missiles, especially when Samus has higher percent, wavedash in and f-smash. You get hit, Nana does not, and her smash follows through on your behalf. I catch people DI'ing badly all the time like this, and it can give you crucial KOs at (relatively) early percents.

<3

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Oh, that was Connor.

I'll take your word that approaching Samus at the edge is fine, although I still probably won't do it much since I don't trust myself to shield at the right time.

I totally forgot about the tilt-guard desync; I should do that more.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

What is Tilt Guard desync?

 

[HugS™]

Wait nevermind, this should remain a secret

 

[Pinkie Pie]

I feel like Peach could be manageable if you bait her into the air. Her options become limited, she loses her cc game, and your approach becomes much safer. I've also found it relatively easy to grab approaching/aerial Peaches for some reason.

Grabbing a float canceling Peach is pretty good. I think I've tried wd to uptilt a few times on a floaty Peach to nice effect. Any thoughts?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I personally hate it when Peach floats at a height just above usmash range. Unless she spaces herself poorly, it's really hard to do much to do her then.

@Kyu: It shouldn't be easy to grab a Peach approaching you from the air at all. Could you elaborate on exactly how you're getting these grabs?

 

[Wobbles]

PokemonMaster: Do an f-tilt the opposite direction you're facing. You will do the tilt and Nana will be stuck in the turning animation (I think this is the cause), so instead of tilting, she will decide to jab the wrong way.

Since the jab has less ending lag than the f-tilt, this sets up a de-sync. It's REALLY hard to distinguish between this and a normal jab or tilt, even moreso because IC players are uncommon and people rarely know what the hell they're doing. If you wavedash into this, it looks like a standard wavedash jab or wavedash tilt approach. It's really slick.

It lets you do a nice and fast wavedash into blizzard, wavedash away into de-synced ice-block, shield pressure with a de-synced smash while Popo remains free to act... stuff like that. I also think it has potential against Peach for when she's baiting your laggy moves. If she's trying to float high and get you to smash or attack badly, wavedash in with a tilt-guard and up-smash. She processes the smash and decides it's the time to strike, you throw out another one and let her fall on it. Or something.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Cool stuff.

Never heard about this one. Sounds really fluid and useful.


OH BOY.



Any Falco Advice guys?

Only little trick I really have is (like someone mentioned vs Samus) Ill charge a smash so when I get lasered Nana is still charging a smash for the Falco to run into when he follows up the laser.

 

[Turazrok]

If you guys had a beginner's type guide with all the basics, I would play IC's.. can you make it happen :D?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

they are pretty techical but I argee there should be a more gereral guide that talks a lot about grabs. I might know much but crap there should be one there is like 13 different chain throws easily and some I doubt a lot of people know about.

 

[Turazrok]

they are pretty techical but I argee there should be a more gereral guide that talks a lot about grabs. I might know much but crap there should be one there is like 13 different chain throws easily and some I doubt a lot of people know about.

That's my problem. Idk how to desync or chain throw. I just dthrow to dsmash.. or wavedsmash. It's pretty ****, that dsmash.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Oh ****, I forgot to write the CG thing. Go me.

Seriously though, I can try to get that out of the way and possibly write a "beginner's guide" to ICs once I finish finals next week.

I don't really know what such a guide would entail, though. Turazrok, what sort of things would you look for in such a guide that you can't find in any of the existing ones?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

You could talk about moves and when to use them and stuffs. And list all the chain throws and maybe what whats on who like you could have a little list of what works and why it may not work. Also grab theory. Oh please let me say something about down-smash it's the reason why I first picked up the ice climbers and I LLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVEEEEEE it sssssoooooo much It's better than half the cast if you ask me.

 

[Jartravious]

i think sections on

1. approach options
2. out of shield options
3. using platforms
and probably a huge discussion on knowing when/why to apply specific IC strats/techs/chain grabs (especially stating which ones people can DI out of and some ideas to punish that DI)
4. Stages/levels

would all be incredibly helpful although that is a LOT of information...

 

[Kyu Puff]

@Kyu: It shouldn't be easy to grab a Peach approaching you from the air at all. Could you elaborate on exactly how you're getting these grabs?

Well, there's not much you can do if she's just instant fcing n-airs, but I'm talking more about the delayed float above your shield/out of your range/f-air approach stuff. It's hard to explain because most of it is just reading her jumping, landing, and aerial patterns, but overall her aerial movement is pretty slow and readable.

If she's floating over you, out of u-smash range, and you have a chance to attack, sh u-air is second nature. But the longer she's in the air the more likely she is to land or retreat, so you can either try to overshoot a u-smash/u-tilt, or you can try to read her landing pattern and follow her there with a jab/grab.

If she approaches with a f-air I like to play with my spacing a little: usually something like foxtrot -> turnaround puts you in the right position to jab her out of her it. There's also a small window for a dd punish, but you risk running into a spotdodge or d-smash. This is all pretty situational because usually her floats are safe and she plays a more reaction- and ground-based game in my experience.


At RoM II I missed bracket by a set; I ended up losing to Hazzard's Fox and DJN's Samus in the second round of pools. I feel like on a good day I could've made it out but I ended up not playing for months before the tournament. I also lost a couple MMs (*looks at vanz*) but it's all good. I'm looking forward to those vids of you vs HugS, Fly, because I could really use some help in that match-up.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Just stopping in to say
IC's are **** and fun to watch
and kyu puff is mad good at this game

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yea Kyu Puff ***** me hard body at DJ's.

 

[Finch]

Kyu you could watch uber ice vs DJ. He loses the match but it's super close and UI is really good at the matchup since he plays phanna all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHBl4smqpp8

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Yeah, UI vs. DJN would probably help more than my set against Hugo since UI is better than me and also since Hugo plays really differently than DJN.

I think my set should be up later today.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I disagree Hugo is raaaape.

I think if you beat him that is pretty impressive and there will be a lot to learn from the vid.

 

[Turazrok]

Oh ****, I forgot to write the CG thing. Go me.

Seriously though, I can try to get that out of the way and possibly write a "beginner's guide" to ICs once I finish finals next week.

I don't really know what such a guide would entail, though. Turazrok, what sort of things would you look for in such a guide that you can't find in any of the existing ones?

For one, my search doesn't work 95% of the time. For two, the metagame moves on. For instance, I know of no IC mainers in my area. Plus level specific combos, where to cp against certain characters etc. How to **** Marth (lol matchup thread).

 

[Diddyknight]

Go Fly to write the IC guide :3

 

[BC AL]

this might not be the best vid for critiquing, but can u guys critique anyways

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVS4_7Qpkd0&feature=sub