Social General Ice Climber Chat

[PokemonMasterIRL]

So just smashed with Scar and some other *****s, a couple power ranked peeps from nor cal, and I am amazed that people still dont know how to escape Icys reverse dair chain, since no one plays them.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

Actually Yoshi's roll has vulnerable frames

It's just that there aren't many and there's no blatantly visible cue

My friend mains Yoshi so getting the timing down on the roll was required

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yoshi's hurtbox is actually just really tiny when hes rolling, hes not invincible more than other characters

 

[Fly_Amanita]

So, I've been thinking about the CG compendium I plan on writing. I have a general idea about how I'm going to approach it and what the content is going to be, but I have two main concerns: I don't have a lot of concrete information on a lot of CGs, like how long they last, whether so-and-so part of CG is guaranteed to work, etc., and I don't know a lot about CGs on stupid characters like Yoshi and Young Link. Still, I think I could give a lot of useful information regarding grabs on good, commonly used characters.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Hey are you going to do a listing of what works on who? like

_____(name) - handoff forever, d-throw till 40ish%, down-throw jab grab till 50ish%, down-throw down-smash till 50ish% and etc.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I will if people would like me to, but it wasn't something I planned on doing, since how well a certain CG works vary by character. Like, there are times when you can get pretty much any character with dthrow -> dair, but it's a lot easier for some characters to get out of it than others and I wouldn't want to give people the impression that dthrow -> dair is just as useful on Peach as it as on Falco or something.

I'd rather list and describe the CGs and mention whom they work on and under what circumstances they're useful in the descriptions.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

yeah if they can easily di out like jigglypuff with down throw dair techically it could work but yeah same for pichu but the timing is retarted.

Well I could do some chain throw details.I will do any test on whatever chain throw but d-throw I suck at that one for some reason.

Also are you going to try to do all the chain throws incudeing the fun ones? Also I've been wanting to test this but I need the C-stick, down-throw upair on fox upair has a lot of stun time more than any other air move we both know that plus fox is a FFer and it looks like down-throw dair so they will just try to buffer it at first.

 

[Scar]

yeah truth but i take about 2 stocks off ICs per 1 time i get grabbed

2.5 stocks per 1 time i get grabbed by both

so

legit

but yeah i can't get out of reverse dair cg

 

[Turazrok]

I might get some vids up soon. But I suck, so I'm ready to take some helpful advice if I get some.

 

[NJzFinest]

I don't know a lot about CGs on stupid characters like Yoshi and Young Link.

Normal Downthrow CG or Downthrow Nana downsmash CG

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I think that its pretty legit to just reverse Dair CG people see how they respond, if they cant escape then lol keep doing it, and if they can punish them DIing wrong next time you cg by like upsmashing them when they try to SDI Up to get out of the CG or something.


I am going to start ruthlessly wobbling.

 

[Finch]

OK seriously guys? Everyone on this board is convinced that falcon and ganon can get out of reverse dair chaingrab, but I've played a LOT of falcons and ganons and none of them have ever been able to consistently escape the chaingrab if I'm doing it right, and I've never seen any video of a falcon or ganon player that was able to consistently escape it. I think saying that is a lot of crap and makes those matchups look a lot harder for us than they should be.

Yes maybe spacies and falcon/ganon can get out of our chaingrabs with smash DI, but I would say much less than 1% of all smashers even try to implement smash DI into their game. Saying our chaingrabs don't work on fastfallers is just silly. If they're getting out of your chaingrab then you're probably not doing it right.



Just to be clear I made this post because I feel like a lot of IC players don't worry too much about precision with their dthrow dair because they assume a lot of players "know" how to get out of it, and if it doesn't work on a certain player it's because dthrow dair isn't reliable rather than a fault in their execution. Trust me, dthrow dair works on fastfallers absolutely as long as you're fast enough with it. If they're smash DIing it then you should be able to tell, otherwise just work on timing it better.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

OK seriously guys? Everyone on this board is convinced that falcon and ganon can get out of reverse dair chaingrab, but I've played a LOT of falcons and ganons and none of them have ever been able to consistently escape the chaingrab if I'm doing it right, and I've never seen any video of a falcon or ganon player that was able to consistently escape it. I think saying that is a lot of crap and makes those matchups look a lot harder for us than they should be.

Yes maybe spacies and falcon/ganon can get out of our chaingrabs with smash DI, but I would say much less than 1% of all smashers even try to implement smash DI into their game. Saying our chaingrabs don't work on fastfallers is just silly. If they're getting out of your chaingrab then you're probably not doing it right.



Just to be clear I made this post because I feel like a lot of IC players don't worry too much about precision with their dthrow dair because they assume a lot of players "know" how to get out of it, and if it doesn't work on a certain player it's because dthrow dair isn't reliable rather than a fault in their execution. Trust me, dthrow dair works on fastfallers absolutely as long as you're fast enough with it. If they're smash DIing it then you should be able to tell, otherwise just work on timing it better.

Yeeeessssssssssssssss

 

[Kyu Puff]

OK seriously guys? Everyone on this board is convinced that falcon and ganon can get out of reverse dair chaingrab, but I've played a LOT of falcons and ganons and none of them have ever been able to consistently escape the chaingrab if I'm doing it right, and I've never seen any video of a falcon or ganon player that was able to consistently escape it. I think saying that is a lot of crap and makes those matchups look a lot harder for us than they should be.

Yes maybe spacies and falcon/ganon can get out of our chaingrabs with smash DI, but I would say much less than 1% of all smashers even try to implement smash DI into their game. Saying our chaingrabs don't work on fastfallers is just silly. If they're getting out of your chaingrab then you're probably not doing it right.

If a chaingrab is only escapable with SDI, I consider it legit because a lot people can't get out, but there are some people who SDI consistently. Fox only needs to hold down/away on the c-stick + shield to escape, but Falco, Falcon, Ganon, and maybe a few others need SDI.

M2k's Falcon got out of Chu's reverse d-air somewhat consistently (he would still take a significant amount of damage from each grab though). I only know one person who gets out of it consistently (like every time) as Falcon, but he doesn't main Falcon so it doesn't really matter. Darkrain and Hax can't get out of it at all, Scar mashes out randomly sometimes, and m2k gets out kinda, but for all practical purposes, reverse d-air "works".

1% is completely wrong though. There are actually a lot of spacies who SDI out of d-throw d-air consistently. But I agree that it's stupid to use that as an argument match-up-wise, because honestly, if you get grabbed you're gonna get ***** 90% of the time.

Even if a Ganon could SDI out it doesn't matter because you can d-throw him. The reason that match-up is hard has nothiing to do with your grab game.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Of course dthrow -> dair and its variants are useful.

I am kind of surprised that most space animals have a hard time escaping dthrow -> dair since it's trivial for them to DI out of it, though.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I have even caught players who know how to SDI out of reverse dair cg not paying attention as like Marth or Peach and I will do a rotation or two and then smash them from grab.

And then if they arent mashing out since they are trying to DI I will go for Wobbling and visa versa if they are trying to mash out of getting Wobbled Ill do reverse Dair CG.


I cant stress how amazing it is when you here someone trying to mash out of getting Wobbled and you know their DI will be awful so you smash them at a lower percent and they DI from like straight sideways or downward DI lol.





EDIT who does Dthrow Jab on or is effective against?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Tricking people's DI is fun. There really isn't need to do that with wobbling when you can just get a guaranteed KO, though, unless maybe there's some sort of time pressure, you're doing doubles, or you're on a funky moving stage.

I don't like dthrow -> jab on any characters.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Tricking people's DI is fun. There really isn't need to do that with wobbling when you can just get a guaranteed KO, though, unless maybe there's some sort of time pressure, you're doing doubles, or you're on a funky moving stage.

I don't like dthrow -> jab on any characters.

I only try it when I am really close to the edge and I can clearly hear furious mashing. Like vs a Falco or Falco its an easy KO.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I can see that working on fastfallers, although I think there are better alternatives. If you have a grab near the edge in the first place, you should do the handoff, and a lot of the time you can get a guaranteed KO off of that. If not, then I'm a fan of charge fsmash -> dthrow -> release fsmash -> grab in hitlag to rack up a bit more damage.

 

[Diddyknight]

wow fly, impressive xD

 

[Finch]

Fox only needs to hold down/away on the c-stick + shield to escape,

This is exactly the mindset I made this post to change, because this is not true at all. I play against a lot of people who try to do this to escape my chaingrabs, and when I wasn't as good at it they got out, but now that I'm more precise and faster at it, they never get out that way. If foxes are getting out of your dthrow dair by rolling then you need to work on your timing.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Yeah, I think SDI and ASDI are both needed for spacies to get out. Actually, it might be possible in theory to escape with crazy SDI alone, but I doubt anybody would bother to do that.

 

[Kyu Puff]

This is exactly the mindset I made this post to change, because this is not true at all. I play against a lot of people who try to do this to escape my chaingrabs, and when I wasn't as good at it they got out, but now that I'm more precise and faster at it, they never get out that way. If foxes are getting out of your dthrow dair by rolling then you need to work on your timing.

No, my timing is perfect. Fox needs to ASDI and buffer a roll, the people you play might just not be doing it right. One of my crewmates claims he can't get out with that method but I tested it with someone else and after they figured out how to do it they escaped consistently.

 

[Smasher89]

About that, I was thinking about mixing dthrow dair with dthrow dsmash. Dair seems to mostly be escaped by the methods you all lists up, but I think maybe dsmash can be as a variation to mess up their smashDI and get a regrab?
I was mainly thinking against falco/fox or is beaten by DI away+tech?

 

[Turazrok]

I really don't get the point of CG's when you can wobble. Unless it's banned. Luckily there's no IC mains in my area, so it's not banned yet.

 

[Wobbles]

CG'ing doesn't have a cost in terms of start-up time, so if your opponent is good at mashing out you may have to settle for a CG at lower percents.

Also, videos!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258850

 

[choknater]

mannnnn wobbles youre SOOOOO goooood

great stuff

i learned that nair pryi gud for hitting people behind you

and your grab combos ****

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Wobbles is so good.

I'm still so bad. I need tech skill!

 

[Wobbles]

Don't we all.

You know... I actually think there isn't an IC player with seriously good tech-skill. I know people say that *I* am, but I'm so inconsistent and sloppy sometimes that I really don't think it's a good assessment. My skill seems to be in really precise timing on weird stuff. Like a 95% success rate on freeze-glitches.

Ah well, maybe one day I'll be as good as I want to be.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Lets all step it up in 2010.

Icys for top tier.

I already have good players johning about wobbling.



im drunk.

the club

asian chicks

yess
yaay!@

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Oc-chu the combo video I'm trying to resort it's audio I gift from me to the ice climbers world. really I was trying to be uber techical by just being a de-synce monster but It's really hard vs fox.

carp I can't do it like how everyone will like it will have crapy red words on it should I still reupload with audio?

 

[T-Cash]

after you d synch how do you do moves with nana is it certain button combos i heard there different ways to do it

 

[T-Cash]

also chain grabs with ice climbers help is needed

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

there are at least 12 different chain throws which out are you talking about? you buffer the attack if you do a de-synce like missed grabs, rolling, spotdodge, just got hit (only if you buffer with the c-stick or B), just started. if you dd to de-synce it's about timing same with the hard sh waveland I'm trying to figure that one out right now. but there is a de-synce guide that can help you.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I have tech skill, but I can't wobble and I'm not smart.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Watching grand finals in a sec.

Wobbles is raaaaaape.

 

[BC AL]

Wobbles makes ice climbers ten times sexier than they already are
nana charged fsmash kills REALLY early during grab combos 0_o *takes notes

 

[Wobbles]

Yeah, one of the nice things about the handoff is it helps you cut down on distance towards the blastzones. The f-smash fully charged, timed so it hits right after the d-throw, gets you over 20% and a LOT of power; plus the d-throw pushes them out of the stage a bit.

You know, if you hit Z while charging the smash, I believe you can actually add an additional pummel. I should start doing that

 

[ETWIST51294]

I have never seen darkrain get ***** so hard in my life.

 

[choknater]

me neither. seriously, not even by m2k