Social General Ice Climber Chat

[Grim Tuesday]

I was able to hand-off in Brawl after learning it in Melee haha.

I just practiced a ****-ton vs. random CPUs basically

 

[SillyGoose]

how exactly does one do the ICs moonwalk as showcased in that one wobbles video? It looks like he just does a very fast dash dance, but I seem to randomly get it and not get it for no reason.

Edit: never mind, I've had a lot more success today. Although I still have no idea how wobbles does his "supermoonwalk"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fV3QNpesRYo#t=103s

 

[DerfMidWest]

In teams, what is my goal as the ICs?

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

I play alot of ic in teams. they really stink at teams but there are a few things you can do
1. stay near nana as long as possible, shielding early
2. stock tanks as popo, try to stay onstage and centre stage as long as possible
your opponents will likely focus on you during the match, unfortunately that is their only strength in teams other than fsmash and dsmash. it is a strenth cause your opponents realize how easy it is to kill nana. as long as you never give up at recovering and mix it up you should be able to distract at least 1 opponent edgeguarding you. one thing i will say about low lvl ics in teams is it has been useful to me to focus on shielding, wding and dsmashes(they take up alot of room and it easy to condition opponents into grab by just wding in and out of shield with dsmashes. i often hold my shield until it breaks if i have nana, especially under spacie pressure, most people see a shield break and run towards me to punish before my teammate can wake me up but then you have free reign over nana so you can catch them with surprise dsmashes and fsmashes, blizzard if they predict the smash or grab dthrow regrab/fsmash.
TANK STOCKS and you will make your opponent worried even tho they really shouldnt be.
most teams will realize that they can hit you then 2v1 your opponent while your recovering and thats where my advice stops because that strategy works really legit.
ice blocks screw over your teammate some times and blizzard is really risky for nana

 

[stelzig]

Why should he straight up tank stocks as sopo? As you said, it works quite well to focus on the other player once nana is gone, so keeping nana out of the game for longer is just gonna weaken your team.

Not that you should straight up kill yourself of course, but I don't quite follow the idea of letting your teammate fight alone. Is it just accepting that ICs is terrible in teams and therefore trying to give him more stocks?

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

I dont think you should leave your opponents to gang up on your teammate either but sopo seems pretty easy to edge guard but with horrible consequences if you screw up or ignore them because of their great mobility with the wd and punishment with smashes and sopo grab combos. sopo is way more useful than nana in teams and i try to keep nana for extra damage, punishment and mindgames. i was just outlining a plan i see many players in my local community and online use against a team with ice climbers. generally they focus on nana before your teammate so sopo is forced to use solo squall hammer, which is slower than with nana giving them time to 2vs1
also if many players cant kill sopo for a couple mins and noone else is losing stocks( i.e. when someone teams with me that is good enough to 2v1) the entire match they start to get desperate and resort to aggressive moves that can kill their partner or you.
good luck

 

[Melomaniacal]

Can anyone recommend me some good IC vs. Falco videos?
I'm having trouble dealing with the neutral position, and when he approaches high and a bit in front (like, out of upair range). Also the OOS game. Should I just WD OOS when I'm being pressured from the front?

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

i dont think so melo, i may have replied to the 1st one. im not going to help you in neutral game against ics, thats probably not your biggest problem anyways.
http://youtu.be/94ncUxZc66s ya im not stupid, i can google
you just seemed very inexperienced vs ics in general and make some poor/uninformed decisions
i only explained doubles cause its common knowledge in my area and does not really have any effect on me.

 

[Melomaniacal]

i dont think so melo, i may have replied to the 1st one. im not going to help you in neutral game against ics, thats probably not your problem anyways.

I've literally never used Falco against an IC player, I can promise you I'm asking for my benefit as a potential IC main.

EDIT: Oh jam, I totally forgot about that set. Yeah, I don't really use Falco any more, haha.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

if you dont look at the ic char matchup guide
you understand my problem tho, considering i live in a high concentration of falcos(canada lol)
you got wrecked on by VTS, so examine the footage from ic's view, considering he didnt really play that well.

 

[Melomaniacal]

if you dont look at the ic char matchup guide
you understand my problem tho, considering i live in a high concentration of falcos(canada lol)
you got wrecked on by VTS, so examine the footage from ic's view, considering he didnt really play that well.

I have, but there are certain intricacies and positions that I am unsure of, like the one I sort of described there.

But yes, clearly I do have bigger problems in the match up as Falco, as I didn't even remember playing VTS there, haha. I'm not really sure how much good it would do for me to evaluate that set, as I, as a Falco player, had no clue what the hell I was doing, haha. That was my first and last time playing ICs in tournament. But I'm really not interested in Falco any more. I started as an IC main, and I want to come back. Please don't shun me!

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

i believe you now, in neutral ice blocks and baits are really important against falco.
when he is above you and approaching its probably going to be dair
wd back oos is best option but if you notice in your match with vts when you messed up an lcancel on his shield he could shieldgrab you
VTS reminds me of my own ice climbers, always screwing up and improvising with mediocre results, shots fired
how many trixies do you know, if you see anything in a video u dont understand you can ask here but the matchup thread is always a good idea.
there are many things that are very confusing with ice climbers and you can find all kind of desyncs
http://youtu.be/qJWTC04_-ME fly apparently always beats wes so that could be a good modern example
http://youtu.be/jkedjl828CA i always liked this vid to see what to do right

 

[Melomaniacal]

i believe you now, in neutral ice blocks and baits are really important against falco.
when he is above you and approaching its probably going to be dair
wd back oos is best option but if you notice in your match with vts when you messed up an lcancel on his shield he could shieldgrab you
VTS reminds me of my own ice climbers, always screwing up and improvising with mediocre results, shots fired
how many trixies do you know, if you see anything in a video u dont understand you can ask here but the matchup thread is always a good idea.
there are many things that are very confusing with ice climbers and you can find all kind of desyncs

I'm fairly confident in my knowledge of their "trixies," (I've followed ICs pretty closely since '06; Chu was the reason I picked it up competitively) I'm really just trying to work on breaking some poor habits and being able to recognize some situations and positions, and what my options are in them.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

so... ur exactly where i am and we need help from the sages
you have been active alot longer than i so you probably would do better than me

 

[Melomaniacal]

so... ur exactly where i am and we need help from the sages
you have been active alot longer than i so you probably would do better than me

Eh, I wouldn't be sure about that. I have a minor case of agoraphobia and subsequently can't think straight in a tournament setting, plus I'm not active enough to be... you know, good at this game.

Regardless, fighting the urge to down smash is really hard some times.
Also, how do people feel about dthrow -> fair -> regrab on floatier characters (low percent)? It worked pretty well for me several times today in some friendlies vs. a Peach, and it's pretty damn funny to land.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

dthrow fair regrab is a crap shoot, a single fair will send your opponent slightly up if they hit the front of the triangle of hitboxes. di up+away should get the away from anything but a read with a JCgrab to chase(which is hella risky). gainst peach if you cant get wobbling or the handoff going after a popo grab you should go for dthrow dair fsmash for most damage but the handoff is really important in this matchup at high lvl play imo

 

[Grim Tuesday]

The hand-off is close to the most important thing for ICs at high level play in every match-up imo, assuming Wobbling is banned

 

[Oracle]

Why wouldn't you fthrow fair regrab?

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

In short DI
dthrow fair fmash is pretty good

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Who the **** are all these new people.

As Ice Climbers in teams you often stock tank.

Fly said it best "I just punish stupidity"

Stock tank and punish stupidity works well for me.

 

[Nintendude]

ICs are really good at picking off people with random smashes and just hitting like trucks in general. That's about all they're good for in teams though.

 

[voorhese]

If u want to tank stocks and just kill people with a single well spaced move, play ganon in teams.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

sounds like trail's time to post in this thread lol.

 

[choknater]

ever since i learned how to use defensive fair, i got way better in teams lol

that's like mah trademark move these days lol. spike leads into jab reset and death

 

[Fly_Amanita]

In doubles, I might just opt for fair -> dsmash over that since you often don't have the time to go for any mildly elaborate grab stuff. If the other teammate isn't around, then sure, though.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Yeah Chok Fair is mad, good I was just playing with Tafokints and Joe and almost every time I used that move I profited, when it lands it leads to business.

 

[HammerTime]

Yeah Chok Fair is mad, good I was just playing with Tafokints and Joe and almost every time I used that move I profited, when it lands it leads to business.

As an up and coming IC main, I was just wondering what you guys think is the best edgeguarding option for ICs against Marth.

In my experience I've noticed the edgeguarding in that matchup is pretty one sided. Marth can land an easy side smash on a sopo trying to recover with squall hammer but when Marth is off the stage I never know what to do other than shoot ice blocks at him so he always makes it back on.

Also, aside from camping with ice blocks/blizzard, is there any sort of reliable way to approach Marth directly? I feel like his aerials outspace everything I do and the only way to approach him is by rolling behind him or approaching from below if he goes in the air.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Despite the fact that Fly was out-played here (and lost), this is basically how you want to play the match-up: www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4wMYXIMwNA

 

[HammerTime]

Despite the fact that Fly was out-played here (and lost), this is basically how you want to play the match-up: www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4wMYXIMwNA

Seems like Fly usually got nana to shoot an ice block followed by popo grabbing the ledge. Are there any attacks ICs can use to out-prioritize Marth's up-B (Any aerials or smash attacks?) or is this edge grabbing technique the only reliable way of edge guarding him?

 

[Nintendude]

Just do the ice block desynch and then grab the edge. Grabbing the edge is the best thing to do vs Marth's recovery.

 

[HammerTime]

Just do the ice block desynch and then grab the edge. Grabbing the edge is the best thing to do vs Marth's recovery.

Sounds good, I'll keep that in mind for the future.

If anyone has the time to check out one of my matches and tell me what I'm doing right/wrong (aside from the horrible edgeguard attempts and a few messed up handoff attempts), here's a link to one of my sets vs one of the best Marths in my region:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhEjpmOXMiQ

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Try to learn the dash-dance desync, and practice staying desynced after you intiate it so you can keep up the blizzard/ice block wall. If you rewatch the match, you'll notice you only had trouble getting in when you weren't in control of Nana, or Marth was too close to you to desync safely.

Try to stay off platforms with both climbers unless you get a hard read.

 

[HammerTime]

Try to learn the dash-dance desync, and practice staying desynced after you intiate it so you can keep up the blizzard/ice block wall.
Try to stay off platforms with both climbers unless you get a hard read.

The dash dance desynch is the one where you run forward backward forward and hold down-B and nana does a blizzard right? I'm aware of that one so I'll use it more in future matches and work on keeping up desynchs.

I've also seen some IC players desynch by wavedashing backwards into a forward dash multiple times or something like that but i'm not sure how that one works.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

hey hammer time you, and i and rusty shackleford are the only ICs in canada that i can find videos of

 

[HammerTime]

hey hammer time you, and i and rusty shackleford are the only ICs in canada that i can find videos of

lol yeah we're a pretty rare bunch. You going to apex by any chance?

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

nah im not good enough+travel expenses.
ok travel expenses+school+work

 

[ShroudedOne]

Not being good enough is never a reason not to go to tournies. Even if you get last, you'll always learn something from playing people, and you can ask for advice and grow in that way as a player.

Transportation costs, though, are a thing. I understand those. :\

 

[HammerTime]

Not being good enough is never a reason not to go to tournies. Even if you get last, you'll always learn something from playing people, and you can ask for advice and grow in that way as a player.

Transportation costs, though, are a thing. I understand those. :\

I don't plan on doing well at Apex but I'm going to learn as well as to rep ICs for Canada. I don't think we've ever had a top level ICs player before. Not saying I'm "top level" but I'd like to at least leave a decent impression on the American players.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

good for you man, good luck bro and represent
the only retired ics in canada im aware of is mitch from the punch crew
his vid http://youtu.be/eZl37aPLFOk is pretty cool, you would think canada of all places would have ICs but we all just like playing falco, fox and marth apparently

 

[iRobinhoood]

@Hammertime I was watching your matches against Europohoria and I noticed you weren't punishing a repetitive habit of his. After each of his stage recoveries and getup attacks he would immediately buffer a roll in/behind you 90% of the time. Just another thing to think about while playing, picking up punishable miscues by your opponent.

You have nice ICs btw.