HoChiMinhTrail
Smash Master
still not really sure how to do that stuff.... u *****
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Social General Ice Climber Chat
- Thread starter dj asakura
- Start date
voorhese
Smash Master
<3 sorry dood just had to after seeing tech skill advice from you >_<
choknater
Smash Obsessed
trail its really easy
when you're running u just press up and Z
when you're running u just press up and Z
HoChiMinhTrail
Smash Master
**** that ****
voorhese
Smash Master
who presses up and z? I just squeeze my controller.
I extend my right index finger all the time, and when I wavedash I just squeeze, and my thumb hits X b4 my index finger hits R because of how I have my hand positioned all the time. and to jc grab I just shift my index finger slightly towards me 1st and squeeze.
I extend my right index finger all the time, and when I wavedash I just squeeze, and my thumb hits X b4 my index finger hits R because of how I have my hand positioned all the time. and to jc grab I just shift my index finger slightly towards me 1st and squeeze.
john!
Smash Hero
man voorhese, all this time i thought you were some kinda super technical cyborg... but all you do is a bunch of squeezes... kinda ruins the magic for me
choknater
Smash Obsessed
oh yeah, jump button + z works too
i guess i find up and Z easier since that's how i do running up smashes with up and A
i guess i find up and Z easier since that's how i do running up smashes with up and A
voorhese
Smash Master
Strategery squeezez mang. will it make you feel better if I say I can double shine by going from b->x->b with out sliding?
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
you can also crouch...
I use y+z for JC grabs. I never use up/x for jumping.
Futhermore, I only use the c-stick for down-smashes and forward-smashes. I do all of my aerials with A. And I use either R or L for shielding, depending on the situation.
What were we discussing again?
EDIT:
Futhermore, I only use the c-stick for down-smashes and forward-smashes. I do all of my aerials with A. And I use either R or L for shielding, depending on the situation.
What were we discussing again?
EDIT:
If you decide to go even though your technical play isn't as good as it used to, you can see it as an opportunity for improving other aspects of your game, like finding patterns in your opponents' play or keeping your mind clear in tournament matches. Kind of like an elite football player who sit watching matches with a broken arm to improve his game.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
Not a JC grab and can't be done during an initial dash.
voorhese
Smash Master
^ this, also this goes for stuff like shine. you can jc shine during initial dash where as you cannot crouch -> shine
if you were interested =)
if you were interested =)
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
i hope they put the vids on youtube soon. i saw fly do something weird to get a blizzard out from just nana but it didn't look like dashdance or a roll desynch..didn't understand what i saw
Off the top of my head, I can think of up+b out of shield de-sync or possibly something with a pivot, since pivot de-syncs are the fastestest, but the up+b out of shield de-sync is the weirdest looking one.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
It was probably up-B OoS -> blizzard, which I don't do nearly as much as I used to, but still do occasionally. The only pivot desynch I ever do is empty pivot -> ice block, which I'm not consistent enough at to actually try in a real match yet.
GhllieShdeKnife
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 687
you were also using the grab desync to get blizzard up fast. thats always important to know
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
well thats really gay and its a good thing I JC my grabs then.
I just remembered axe telling me you could do it that way awhile back or something.
probably remembering wrong.
.tea©
Smash Journeyman
I need some help with the Up-B ledgegrab aka Nana rocket aka whatever. I don´t get the timing. It feels random. Any tips on how to do it? 
Like specific control stick movements or something? Frame data is appreciated as well. ^^
Like specific control stick movements or something? Frame data is appreciated as well. ^^
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
ah ok so maybe you wavedashed back into instant up b out of shield with nana blizzard..it was crazy fast looking though. i believe your opponent was trying to punish your last blizzard when it happened
kd-
Smash Lord
When trying to handoff, sometimes Nana will jab instead of grabbing. Is this a common thing? I'm pressing z to regrab
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
yeah, it's because nana is going from crouch to stand (because of the dthrow input) during which pressing z causes a grab. JC nana's grab when you do handoffs to prevent that.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
You can also have Nana shield-grab.
If I wavedashed backwards first, it probably was just a fast DD desynch. If I retreat first, I generally won't do a desynch as laggy as up-B OoS; up-B OoS is more for when I'm under pressure, really don't want to or am unable to retreat, and want a blizzard to come out very quickly.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
What reaches lower, f-smash or d-smash? I'm not sure why I never bothered to figure this out lol. My gut says d-smash but I could be wrong.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i'd like to know this too
schoin
Smash Cadet
I love how since the handoff us ICs have done very little and come up with gems like:
Also don't know why I haven't asked before, but whilst edgeguarding does anyone do anything special with their nana to stop her randomly jabbing a falling enemy? I hate it when I'm ledgehogging and I've got the kill only to have nana jab and give them another upB
That said, seriously does anyone know?
Also don't know why I haven't asked before, but whilst edgeguarding does anyone do anything special with their nana to stop her randomly jabbing a falling enemy? I hate it when I'm ledgehogging and I've got the kill only to have nana jab and give them another upB
GhllieShdeKnife
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 687
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=285394
my initial guess was that the dsmash would be lower but apon careful inspection i think its even.
if you are looking for edgeguarding tools the dsmash hitbox stays out longer and has a low angle of kb
i cant believe i actually didnt subcribe to that thread
other sub-worthy threads
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206469
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=295524
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=294336
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=42749
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210133
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=30064
if you dont have any of these you may want to, thats probably my fav collection of threads and i have subbed to every 1.
also ics matchup guide is useful but i didnt link, shoutouts to bing
my initial guess was that the dsmash would be lower but apon careful inspection i think its even.
if you are looking for edgeguarding tools the dsmash hitbox stays out longer and has a low angle of kb
i cant believe i actually didnt subcribe to that thread
other sub-worthy threads
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206469
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=295524
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=294336
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=42749
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210133
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=30064
if you dont have any of these you may want to, thats probably my fav collection of threads and i have subbed to every 1.
also ics matchup guide is useful but i didnt link, shoutouts to bing
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Does anyone know how to make Nana pummel inbetween throws?
voorhese
Smash Master
yeah dood I think you like mash b or something
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i thought it was random
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
It is random, I think he's alluding to the freeze glitch.
voorhese
Smash Master
I was being sarcastic, I thought pummeling was when she just jabs. and he meant during the grab b4 the chain throw continues.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
If I'm afraid of Nana doing something dumb (such as kill herself, which has happened in tourney sets before) I'll just desynch her into a blizzard while I edgehog.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
omg I'm so dumb.
how come i don't do that
thanks nintendodude.
Lol just read through teh falco boards on the ideas of high level players withholding information so I can't help but think,
"man the best thing about not knowing anything about ICs is that everyone has useful advice they can share with me because I'm so bad at this char lol"
how come i don't do that
thanks nintendodude.
Lol just read through teh falco boards on the ideas of high level players withholding information so I can't help but think,
"man the best thing about not knowing anything about ICs is that everyone has useful advice they can share with me because I'm so bad at this char lol"
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
You drop down then hit upB when popo's head is just bellow the ledge.I need some help with the Up-B ledgegrab aka Nana rocket aka whatever. I don´t get the timing. It feels random. Any tips on how to do it?
It just takes a bit of practice to get a feel for the timing.
Yeah, you have to be:
1) within edge grab range
AND
2) have <=0 upward velocity
If you do the up+b too late, you won't throw Nana. If you do it too early, you will start rising and not get the cancel.
This means you can do it while DESCENDING -- you come from above the edge and up+b just as you fall into edge-grab range, so you throw Nana then fall in.
OR
You can do it while ASCENDING -- you come from beneath the edge and up+b just as you reaching the peak of the jump, so you throw Nana, THEN reach zero upward velocity.
1) within edge grab range
AND
2) have <=0 upward velocity
If you do the up+b too late, you won't throw Nana. If you do it too early, you will start rising and not get the cancel.
This means you can do it while DESCENDING -- you come from above the edge and up+b just as you fall into edge-grab range, so you throw Nana then fall in.
OR
You can do it while ASCENDING -- you come from beneath the edge and up+b just as you reaching the peak of the jump, so you throw Nana, THEN reach zero upward velocity.
voorhese
Smash Master
So is the only way you can turn around to grab the ledge if you have nana when you up b?
Unless you turn around in the air with an ice block, then yes.
For the Nana rocket thing, I just hold down on the control stick while being in the up-b animation until I want Popo to grab the edge. Like, press up-b while Popo is in range of grabbing the edge and then press and hold down on the control stick until Nana has been thrown. Then press up on the control stick immediately after to grab the edge with Popo.
Other stuff I feel like sharing:
- If you waveshield off the stage to grab the edge, Nana won't kill herself randomly. This is great if you just want a safe edge-grab after knocking your opponent off the stage.
- Pressing down on the control stick after doing a pivot dash will make the window for Nana desync bigger for inputs like smashes, blizzard, and ice blocks. It's like doing a DD desync, but instead of doing 3 dashes, you do 2.
- If you do the fast wobbling set up as I've mentioned a few times (no waiting after the grab) then your opponent can't escape by mashing, not even at 0%. Or, at least this seems to be the case. I need to test it against top level players, though.
For the Nana rocket thing, I just hold down on the control stick while being in the up-b animation until I want Popo to grab the edge. Like, press up-b while Popo is in range of grabbing the edge and then press and hold down on the control stick until Nana has been thrown. Then press up on the control stick immediately after to grab the edge with Popo.
Other stuff I feel like sharing:
- If you waveshield off the stage to grab the edge, Nana won't kill herself randomly. This is great if you just want a safe edge-grab after knocking your opponent off the stage.
- Pressing down on the control stick after doing a pivot dash will make the window for Nana desync bigger for inputs like smashes, blizzard, and ice blocks. It's like doing a DD desync, but instead of doing 3 dashes, you do 2.
- If you do the fast wobbling set up as I've mentioned a few times (no waiting after the grab) then your opponent can't escape by mashing, not even at 0%. Or, at least this seems to be the case. I need to test it against top level players, though.
voorhese
Smash Master
Hey fly I heard the conversation you had with the commentator about jab -> grab, and I have to ask if this is a true "combo"
When I do jab -> grab optimally I try to do a large wavedash -> hold down/back and press A -> JC grab
Holding down/back makes a jab come out and it auto jab cancels, but because I am holding down and back I just JC grab so that I don't do another jab.
also do I lose time by putting the jump in to cancel as opposed to letting go of down back and doing a normal grab? like I think I do because there is the jump squat I actually have to cancel, but then again going waiting until I am in a standing position so I can actually grab may be slower?
edit: also what do you guys think about shield drop -> ice block as a tech chase on platforms vs spacies?
edit: I haven't done testing yet, but I saw pivot -> jump desynch (into ice block every time), and it got me thinking, could I do that into blizzard by not pressing down hard enough for popo to crouch since blizzard has to be done in the neutral position just like ice block? If so is faster than dash dance desynch -> blizz (I think so, and I think it also can be done with less room) AND is it better because it hits higher too? Upon some testing I found I don't need to press down lightly because I can't crouch during my initial dash animation duh....so why do I not see just desynch jump -> blizz if you don't have to do anything else special for it?
edit: lol what about this new form of nanapault: run -> shield -> forward B oos (if fast enough it desynchs and nana is in a full hop) -> down b -> hold back?
^ this actually feels really neat as something to while running away. Do it just like this except side b oos in the direction behind you and after the down b hold forward.
edit: I haven't seen this synergy yet but I know we all know about aerial dodging early to make only nana waveland and then we can go into blizzard. I have been trying to do it after a shield drop the last few minutes, it's tough. Is it worth practicing?
When I do jab -> grab optimally I try to do a large wavedash -> hold down/back and press A -> JC grab
Holding down/back makes a jab come out and it auto jab cancels, but because I am holding down and back I just JC grab so that I don't do another jab.
also do I lose time by putting the jump in to cancel as opposed to letting go of down back and doing a normal grab? like I think I do because there is the jump squat I actually have to cancel, but then again going waiting until I am in a standing position so I can actually grab may be slower?
edit: also what do you guys think about shield drop -> ice block as a tech chase on platforms vs spacies?
edit: I haven't done testing yet, but I saw pivot -> jump desynch (into ice block every time), and it got me thinking, could I do that into blizzard by not pressing down hard enough for popo to crouch since blizzard has to be done in the neutral position just like ice block? If so is faster than dash dance desynch -> blizz (I think so, and I think it also can be done with less room) AND is it better because it hits higher too? Upon some testing I found I don't need to press down lightly because I can't crouch during my initial dash animation duh....so why do I not see just desynch jump -> blizz if you don't have to do anything else special for it?
edit: lol what about this new form of nanapault: run -> shield -> forward B oos (if fast enough it desynchs and nana is in a full hop) -> down b -> hold back?
^ this actually feels really neat as something to while running away. Do it just like this except side b oos in the direction behind you and after the down b hold forward.
edit: I haven't seen this synergy yet but I know we all know about aerial dodging early to make only nana waveland and then we can go into blizzard. I have been trying to do it after a shield drop the last few minutes, it's tough. Is it worth practicing?
I think I've discovered a trick that could be really useful for any ICs players. Basically it allows Popo to do a dash grab without Nana when both climbers are synced, leaving Nana free to do what she wants to do. This means Nana can blizzard/f-tilt/d-tilt or charge smashes immediately after Popo gets/misses a grab.
You can do the dash grab when standing right next to your opponent, but also also when standing far away (like half the length of FD away).
I've been playing around with the trick a little. Here are few of the things you can do with it:
* Dash towards your opponent (short/long distance) -> grab and pummel -> f-tilt (wobbling, works even at 0%, no time to mash out)
* Dash towards your opponent (short/long distance) -> grab -> blizzard (you can time it in a way that makes the first hitbox of blizzard come out at the same time as the grab connects)
* Dash towards your opponent (short/long distance) -> grab and pummel -> charge smash
* Any time Popo whiffs a grab, Nana can protect him while he is in his grab animation. This is also a decent way to set up Nana blizzard
* Other applications
How the trick works is kind of hard to explain (at least for me), but it is really easy once you've figured out the timing. The trick uses the principles of Nana's inability to pivot when dash-dancing with Popo, and the "strange force that Popo exerts on Nana when nearby which causes her to be pulled towards him" as Fly put it in his guide. I'll post a video some time if you are interested.
Seriously, being able to wobble immediately after a dash grab is crazy good. Well, at least here in Europe where it isn't banned.
EDIT: Seems like you can also dash dance in place after you have done the trick. By doing this you might be able to bait shines/spot-dodges and punish with wobbling.
You can do the dash grab when standing right next to your opponent, but also also when standing far away (like half the length of FD away).
I've been playing around with the trick a little. Here are few of the things you can do with it:
* Dash towards your opponent (short/long distance) -> grab and pummel -> f-tilt (wobbling, works even at 0%, no time to mash out)
* Dash towards your opponent (short/long distance) -> grab -> blizzard (you can time it in a way that makes the first hitbox of blizzard come out at the same time as the grab connects)
* Dash towards your opponent (short/long distance) -> grab and pummel -> charge smash
* Any time Popo whiffs a grab, Nana can protect him while he is in his grab animation. This is also a decent way to set up Nana blizzard
* Other applications
How the trick works is kind of hard to explain (at least for me), but it is really easy once you've figured out the timing. The trick uses the principles of Nana's inability to pivot when dash-dancing with Popo, and the "strange force that Popo exerts on Nana when nearby which causes her to be pulled towards him" as Fly put it in his guide. I'll post a video some time if you are interested.
Seriously, being able to wobble immediately after a dash grab is crazy good. Well, at least here in Europe where it isn't banned.
EDIT: Seems like you can also dash dance in place after you have done the trick. By doing this you might be able to bait shines/spot-dodges and punish with wobbling.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
cool! can u make a video? :D