sorry I can't understand this: "What it does do though is make them away to di in more often to try and take advantage of your iceblocks then you can dash dance and get grabs because of the forward momentum. Not 100% sure this works on zelda but I know it works vs Marth."
however, ICs **** zelda, so moving on, someone give me tips vs sheik. I got around 40 matches of IC vs 2 different sheiks yesterday, as well as watching one of them play IC against the other.
things I'm confused about how to deal with.
When pressured I feel like I get *****, but I assume I just need to roll around or WD back because I can't just directly compete with the tilts properly spaced.
I guess the bigger problem is that I don't like going near the edge cause I get *****. I have no idea how to take space in this matchup or how to camp properly either. Therefore I am interested in anyone's vs sheik strategy at all. I know that sh upairs get under sheik and **** her for like a bazillion damage.
Anyway I will go through the stuff I tried and you can tell me if it should work, it is just bad, or maybe i need to use it differently.
IC's fair - absolute garbage, appears to almost always lose to sheik's tilts. I bet it would work if i could get the sheiks to try running away from me, but there is no dash away, just more tilts or another SH.
IC spacing bair. this seems to work decently, but once they catch on they start walking around and then dash attack to split me up. also at non kill percents the risk reward does not seem to be in ICs favor. Initial thoughts: maybe if I only used it fading i could prevent getting hit by the dash attacks by staying at the edge of range, but again, one of my biggest problems in this matchup is that i feel like i can't retake space that I've lost. and at the edge once one IC is pushed to the edge the other always dies.
biggest issue is most likely my understanding of wavedashes. Wavedashes have immense amounts of lag (10 frames I think) and you cannot start any move till the end, correct? a lot of matches i see the ICs CC a lot to make up for this, but if you wd forward and they just react to you coming in range they should be able to hit you with a faster move always right?
dodging with WD
assuming that they swing near the last 5 frames of your dodging WD, to punish with WD dsmash you would need 5 frames + 10 frames for another WD + start up of dsmash. that seems like an exceptionally slow punish, so I don't think it would work unless they used a laggy move or try to dash away. However, they will only dash away if you start punishing them with other moves that are faster.
so i am guessing after using a dodging wavedash I need to use dash attack or grab if i'm not in range to smash the lag of sheik's tilts and the like.
for some reason I can't remember testing dash attack much vs sheik. is this move decent vs her or do you end up getting split up with a bthrow or something?
I didn't use either of these moves much and wasted most of my time trying to fair in to punish lag. I did attempt a fair number of grabs but i felt like i was only getting 1-2 per match out of 7-8 attempted.
but yeah does dash attack have a place vs sheik, and should i attempt to max range it or cross over with it. Also I really wish there was a hitbox thread for ICs. I should learn how to capture off youtube so i can do that cause I really feel like sometimes I go right through an opponent with the dash attack but the hitbox oesn't hit them. I feel like there must be a time when the visual animation is showing a dash attack but the hitbox isn't actually there.
another comment. Is it just me or is there no way to save nana once sheik bthrows her off. the sheik will take the ledge and then either shino stall or fair if i get close. I worked on punishing fairs from the ledge and managed to get a few kills this way but most of the time I just ate a fair or stayed out of range and then watched nana die to bair, followed by sheik's typical invuln off stage tricks, maybe i get a grab with popo after and 30-40 damage ( i can't seem to do the chaingrab 0-deah with popo. sheik either goes off stage where i can't chase or I slip up.) but honestly if sheik just teleports to a platform after killing nana i feel like she just eats one or two upairs.
also if i hog the ledge against sheik for her close to mid range recoveries rather than letting her on for free, she will come close and explode nana while i'm standing on, so even though I punish her I can only solo punish with her popo. she will teleport to the platform too, and i will get 1-2 aerials on her in exchange for nana taking massive fire damage. Hardly seems worth it
anyway help help i don't know what I'm doing.
one of the people i played with has played with choknater a lot and said choknater sets up an ice block/blizzard wall. what do i use blizzard for agaist sheik? is it for catching her jumps? Is that better than just shing under her and starting a combo?
