Social General Ice Climber Chat

[DarkFlameX]

Im a falcon main in melee, is picking up ICs in melee even worth it as a secondary? I feel like you have to main them to be good with them

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I don't think it's a bad idea since ICs cover some of Falcon's tough match-ups pretty well.

As for getting good with them, they do indeed function very differently from most other characters. However, I don't think they are difficult to play per se; they're just different.

 

[Redd]

Darkflame I def. approve ICs as a secondary. You don't see that enough and they go real well with Falcon.

 

[Engo]

I heard the other day from an icies player that downthrown downair cg doesn't work on/doesn't work well on marth. Is this true? I was doing it on a marth player but he didn't know the matchup so would that be the reason?or was he wrong?

 

[Kyu Puff]

It works well on Falco, and big fastfallers like Falcon, Ganon, DK (I think?), etc.

Floatier characters like Marth can easily DI up and jump out.

 

[Engo]

What cg's if any are there for the floatier characters?

Also, I asked this earlier but didn't get an answer but what is the difference of the down thrown fullhop down air cg and why/when is it used?

Excuse all the questions but I just picked up the icies and don't get a chance to play against others enough to figure this stuff out on my own.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

handoff, wobble, blizzobble, NPC

 

[Grim Tuesday]

What is NPC?
You can also do Dthrow > Utilt > Regrab in NTSC v1.0

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ8zjW3Dy4c#t=1m5s

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Oh, I call that Jabobbling.

What does NPC stand for?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Non Player Character. Basically, you turn the opponent into an NPC

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Kind of a misnomer, seeing as every inescapable chain-grab does that lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yeah but the guy who made it named it that instead of after himself unlike other people

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Funny thing is, Wobbles didn't even discover Wobbling

 

[john!]

was wobbles the one who originally called it "wobbling"?

i thought other people called it that after he popularized it

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That would make more sense.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I remember the thread. If he didn't originally discover it, he definitely named it that when he made the thread teaching people how to do it. Since nobody came in and challenged his naming of the technique, I assume he originally discovered it. Who did discover it then Grim?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I did some research once and some noob (as in, below 100 posts) made a thread about it.

This was semi early in the game's life (03 or 04 I think) and I'm pretty sure no one had heard of it at that point. It kind-of just fell off the radar until Wobbles used it.

It didn't tell people how to do it really, just "press a with the right timing" or something, but some other no-name people got it to work.

 

[choknater]

could've been tetsuya who found it haha

i just remember the first video i saw of it was in training mode, and i THINK by a Japanese player. not sure though

anyway, i do remember when he was first using it in tournaments (as early as 2006). it was just called "the infinite" back then. "wobbling" was popularized by other players

 

[Wobbles]

by other players

You mean me.

 

[choknater]

oh haha hehe

okay okay

i thought it was popularized by a player named HonorBound

 

[Smasher89]

I remember I got wobbled or infinited ( or atleast from 0-80%) at the first tournament I entered in friendlies. That was back when Ice Climbers where in lowtiers!

 

[Kyu Puff]

i almost lost to another young link player today... ;_;

when i tried to stop his approach by shielding the bombs, he would just regrab the bombs after they bounced off my shield

i probably just need to learn the angles of his attacks better, but right now this match-up just doesn't make sense to me

 

[Binx]

You can catch the bombs and use them to cut off angles of retreat, YL is really weird you kinda just have to not get hit by stuff, use ice blocks and bomb catches and uairs until you get a lead and force him to approach.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

My intuition is that it would be very hard for YL to do anything about light-shield camping.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Random remark, but I played Likewise/P a bit today and warmed up on my anti-Sheik game, and warmed up at Melee in general since I haven't played in something like a month. It was fun, and I'm in an unusually cheery mood for no apparent reason on top of that, so things are good right now.

 

[john!]

i recently took a break for about a month after playing about once a week for the past year or so. i came back and seemed to play better than i did before my break. i think it's because i had built up a lot of bad habits which my break allowed me to "forget" in some way.

 

[Nintendude]

i almost lost to another young link player today... ;_;

when i tried to stop his approach by shielding the bombs, he would just regrab the bombs after they bounced off my shield

i probably just need to learn the angles of his attacks better, but right now this match-up just doesn't make sense to me

I played a bit against some Young Link at Apex 2010 (Raistlin?) and seem to recall just shield camping and waiting for an opening to wavedash underneath him when he jumped. Ice blocks are good for forcing him into the air. I feel like Young Link can't really apply any kind of solid anti-camping pressure and your ground speed is too good for him to keep you walled out.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I remember shielding a lot and looking for opportunities to wavedash in. I might've just been bad at it because I didn't really understand his options.

Cute DI mix-up on Fox: b-throw -> sh blizzard with Nana -> regrab. The easiest way for Fox to escape d-throw d-air is ASDI away. If they DI away, b-throw barely sends them anywhere, and blizzard can catch them out of the air (should lead into grab as long as they don't go crazy with SDI). If they were holding down and away or something, it doesn't work as well, but blizzard can still serve as a jab reset if they miss the tech.

Not the most reliable thing in the world, but we don't have many options to punish Fox's escape DI. At higher percents you can f-smash if you think he'll try to escape; this might be a cool way to get a few extra regrabs at lower percents.

 

[SSBM_Sora]

does anyone know the young link match-up?

>=) I figured you talked about this match up. I hope we play again. My young link will be stronger.

 

[knightpraetor]

is the sh blizzard a dash sh blizzard going behind you or do you just sh the blizzard and hit them before they fly anywhere from the bthrow?

 

[Smasher89]

Was practising some today, some questions about wobblingpractice come up. Is doing it consitently on trainingmode a good measure to know if you got the timing down?
Also close to everytime it broke for me was when the ftilt sent the opponent far away, dealing 6 damage, any idea why that happens(like if its done to early or to slow)?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I remember shielding a lot and looking for opportunities to wavedash in. I might've just been bad at it because I didn't really understand his options.

Were you light-shielding? If YL is doing stuff you can't feasibly punish OoS, it's good to light-shield instead of hard shield because it's much, much harder to poke through a light-shield. This is a problem a bunch of ICs players have; they sit in their full shield when they don't need to and hence make themselves vulnerable to shield-pokes pretty quickly.

Cute DI mix-up on Fox: b-throw -> sh blizzard with Nana -> regrab. The easiest way for Fox to escape d-throw d-air is ASDI away. If they DI away, b-throw barely sends them anywhere, and blizzard can catch them out of the air (should lead into grab as long as they don't go crazy with SDI). If they were holding down and away or something, it doesn't work as well, but blizzard can still serve as a jab reset if they miss the tech.

I'd be worried about the Fox just SDIing the blizzard up on reaction, but I'll dabble with it.

Not the most reliable thing in the world, but we don't have many options to punish Fox's escape DI. At higher percents you can f-smash if you think he'll try to escape; this might be a cool way to get a few extra regrabs at lower percents.

If I think Fox is going to DI away and I don't want to fsmash him because he's at low percentage or something, I'll often just go for a Nana grab and gamble from there.


edit: Wobbling in training mode is a surprisingly bad indicator of whether you can do it in tourney in my experience. It's still good to make sure you know how to set it up at least in theory, though.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

i find that chu dat knows where its @ for ice climbers. he knows that wobbling takes good timing and composure to use in a tourney set and does not use it because he knows he is not that consistant with it in tourney matches so he goes for best dps b4 they mash out or smash DI 1 of those dairs.
i think he also realizes that edgeguarding is very difficult for him and therefore edgeguards from the middle of the stage. if he gets them with a double bair or bair Oos in the middle of the stage if they go high, if they go low rather than risking the hard timing on fsmash or dsmash.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I'd be worried about the Fox just SDIing the blizzard up on reaction, but I'll dabble with it.

Yeah, I thought about that too. B-throw is pretty fast, though, and if they're already holding away they might ASDI the first couple hits of blizzard towards you before they can react. But I guess if the Fox player caught on, they would probably just SDI everything and it wouldn't work anymore.

I wonder if it's feasible to tech chase from this situation on reaction. Blizzard covers the two options that are generally the most difficult to react to (tech in place and no tech) so you would only have to distinguish between his tech rolls. I'm not sure if you recover from b-throw fast enough to cover his tech roll away...

B-throw -> sh nana f-air works until 30-something if they hold away. The end of the f-air connects and launches them in place. I didn't think of this before because stuff like d-throw f-air and d-throw ice block never worked consistently for me. B-throw f-air seems to work as long as they DI away, however, and it's probably less susceptible to SDI than blizzard.

 

[Binx]

i find that chu dat knows where its @ for ice climbers. he knows that wobbling takes good timing and composure to use in a tourney set and does not use it because he knows he is not that consistant with it in tourney matches so he goes for best dps b4 they mash out or smash DI 1 of those dairs.
i think he also realizes that edgeguarding is very difficult for him and therefore edgeguards from the middle of the stage. if he gets them with a double bair or bair Oos in the middle of the stage if they go high, if they go low rather than risking the hard timing on fsmash or dsmash.

Chu has some holes in his game that he can just ignore because hes so good at everything else.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Lol at Wobbling being harder than the standard CGs.

 

[Smasher89]

Lol at Wobbling being harder than the standard CGs.

So you do know a way to reliable practice it and know if you get it down that does not include practice against a player who mashes?
Standard CGS is IMO much easier to know if you do it right then wobbling since you can continue a wrong timing a long time, where it coiuld easily be mashed out.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

wobbling is elusive to me i have been able to do it but i have problems replicating it.
lvl 9s dont always mash and if they do it is slower than a human can do it i believe

 

[Nintendude]

Wobbling is definitely easier lol. There are only three skills required:

1. After the grab, headbutt while pushing the stick forward so you don't f-throw.
2. Tap-A at roughly 200 BPM and keep this steady (consult a metronome if you don't know what 200 BPM is).
3. Flick C-stick down as Popo begins to headbutt when the opponent has sufficient damage.

What part gives you guys trouble?