General Final Fantasy Discussion - Final Fantasy XII remake incoming!

[Minato]

I kind of like the new skin, its a nice change of pace. Although I could do without all of the cartoonishly large buttons. Plus I feel like I'm constantly being beat over the head with the fact that I regular a Smash Bros. forum despite that I haven't competitively played that game in years.

LOL My thoughts exactly on the skin. Nice having a new look, but the huge buttons are a turn off.
I've been using a different skin for awhile though so maybe I'll switch back to that one.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

It doesn't feel like smash boards anymore. The whole layout is ugly and hard on the eyes. One of my biggest peeves is that the screen is stretched like hell. Not a fan of the new look.

 

[finalark]

Nice having a new look, but the huge buttons are a turn off.

It's kind of like, "Oh, I'm sorry, we're you having a hard time finding the quote button before? No? WELL LETS MAKE IT BIG AND GREEN ANYWAY.

I don't know, I think I'll give it a few days to see if I get used to it. If not I'll just change to a different skin.

 

[Matt07]

I'm really loving the new skin.

 

[F8AL]

Okay guys, get back on topic.

And use the "smash blue" skin like me.

 

[Kuraudo]

Okay. Time to actually finish off Dissidia 012 today. I have to defeat Feral Chaos and start getting my good equipment dangit.

 

[Gates]

And use the "smash blue" skin like me.

Well ****, I guess I have to now.

Also, I determined in another thread that FFX is unbalanced. Tidus is broken in the endgame because you can just Haste up and Quick Hit everything to death and then use Osmose when you run out of MP if you got it from a black magic sphere on Lulu's grid. Rikku's physical attacks are also woefully underpowered and Auron's lack of speed really holds him back. Khimari on his own is underpowered because of his lack of a sphere grid, but he becomes high or low tier depending on whose grid you send him through.

This reminds me of my FFX Tidus-only run. I got to [airship] Evrae before I stopped. I need to pick that back up soon, it seems like everything after that would be easy.

 

[Kuraudo]

Well ****, I guess I have to now.

Also, I determined in another thread that FFX is unbalanced. Tidus is broken in the endgame because you can just Haste up and Quick Hit everything to death and then use Osmose when you run out of MP if you got it from a black magic sphere on Lulu's grid. Rikku's physical attacks are also woefully underpowered and Auron's lack of speed really holds him back. Khimari on his own is underpowered because of his lack of a sphere grid, but he becomes high or low tier depending on whose grid you send him through.

This reminds me of my FFX Tidus-only run. I got to [airship] Evrae before I stopped. I need to pick that back up soon, it seems like everything after that would be easy.

My Yuna does 99,999 damage per physical hit. Your argument is invalid.

........wait. there was no argument. nothing's invalid. I just violated this game. LOL Jecht's first and second forms die in one hit from me. One hit from Auron, and then Tidus using Blitz Ace. Game over. LOL

[EDIT]

X's system was just about as broken as VII's was, if not even moreso because you could make everybody do any job if you went through all the Sphere Grids, filled empty nodes, etc.

[EDIT #2]

Then again... Final Fantasy VIII's system....wtf. 9,999 HP at LVL 1 via junction combos? LOL

 

[finalark]

How about FFII's leveling system?

Punch your friends, increase their HP.

 

[Gates]

My Yuna does 99,999 damage per physical hit. Your argument is invalid.

Well obviously everything's balanced if you get a full sphere grid. Or unbalanced depending on how you look at it, but either way it's equally so.

How about FFII's leveling system?

Punch your friends, increase their HP.

This doesn't even make sense irl. I punch my friends all the time and all it does is increase my police record.

WTF SMASH BLUE SKIN DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE. I have to go to Classic Blue to escape this madness. Nevermind, it works now.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I'm using Smash blue atm, what do you mean?

 

[Tee ay eye]

http://www.mediafire.com/?8qj58a1l7z5v2qb

Vinyl Fantasy 7
for anyone who hasn't seen it yet

 

[Gates]

It's back up now? Sweet. I loved the battle remix and the Reunion remix.

Ocarina of Rhyme is good too btw.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

What's that? An album?

 

[finalark]

Are we talking about Voices of the Lifestream? Because you can get that right off of OC Remix's site.

 

[Gates]

No, Vinyl Fantasy VII (and Ocarina of Rhyme) are albums done by Team Teamwork where they remix songs from FFVII (and OoT) with rap songs.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Sounds like Black Materia.

http://random.bandcamp.com/album/black-materia-final-fantasy-vii

 

[4 Aces]

As far as I'm concerned, FFVII was ONLY good in terms of game play. The story was terrible, unstructured and the characters were very poorly written with most of them having only two dimensions. I personally didn't like Clould because his personality is stoic and boring throughout the entire game (actually he goes from "complete douche" to "stoic brooder" in a matter of like, ten seconds). Titus on the other hand I liked because he felt like an actual human being rather than just a one dimensional icon. Plus the fact that he tries to keep an optimistic attitude and doesn't constantly angst over his past is very, very nice to see in a JPRG.

FINALLY someone other than my sister who agrees with me on Tidus. Most of my friends complain about how he "just keeps on *****ing/crying 'dad'," yet they think Cloud and Sephiroth are SO awesome. I mean, I like Cloud and Sephiroth a lot, but honestly, Cloud was quite the negative guy and just...emo mostly (I'd rather use something other than emo, but I can't think of a better word). My point is that they can't just berate Tidus about being "*****y" yet turn a blind eye to Cloud's very similar traits. Unfortunately my persuasive skills are pretty piss-poor in person, so I can't quite explain everything that Tidus has going for him. He was...like you said, pretty real.

They're also like, "he's just there; he has no real role in the story." Granted, I don't really recall him doing anything OBVIOUSLY central, but IMO he's pretty important (and I loved the romance of FFX ). Man, haven't played FFX in so long; the story is a bit foggy now.

 

[Gates]

Tidus really didn't even brood that much over his dad. He would from time to time but not nearly as much as anyone else.

 

[4 Aces]

Tidus really didn't even brood that much over his dad. He would from time to time but not nearly as much as anyone else.

Agreed. I really don't get where they're getting that notion from.

I GUESS that because he's narrating, you get to read/hear everything that goes through his mind. Maybe that's how it stuck (even then I don't recall it coming up that much). Or maybe it was when they got to the CG at the end where he cries for his dad's death.

My mind is a bit foggy on the finer details of the story, but what was Tidus's significant role of being in the party? I can't quite think of anything other than his relation to Jecht. And maybe when they found out the truth about the Final Aeon...Idk, even then seemed like a group effort/decision.

 

[finalark]

FINALLY someone other than my sister who agrees with me on Tidus. Most of my friends complain about how he "just keeps on *****ing/crying 'dad'," yet they think Cloud and Sephiroth are SO awesome. I mean, I like Cloud and Sephiroth a lot, but honestly, Cloud was quite the negative guy and just...emo mostly (I'd rather use something other than emo, but I can't think of a better word). My point is that they can't just berate Tidus about being "*****y" yet turn a blind eye to Cloud's very similar traits. Unfortunately my persuasive skills are pretty piss-poor in person, so I can't quite explain everything that Tidus has going for him. He was...like you said, pretty real.

They're also like, "he's just there; he has no real role in the story." Granted, I don't really recall him doing anything OBVIOUSLY central, but IMO he's pretty important (and I loved the romance of FFX ). Man, haven't played FFX in so long; the story is a bit foggy now.

That was 95 pages back, from a year ago.

But I guess its time to talk about stories.

As far as my feelings on VII's story goes, I really had a hard time loving the characters as much as everyone else. Most of the time I found that a majority of the cast had pretty bland personalities (although I did like Tifa and Red XIII quite a bit as characters, I though they both were pretty well developed).

As for the whole "emo Cloud" thing, I personally think that that's something that was brought about by his portrayal in Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children. If you play the original game, you'll see that he spends a fair amount of the game as a stoic tough guy who opens up when he feels its time to (when he isn't be a douche). It really isn't until he's

Spoiler

mind-***** by Sephiroth at the crater

that he starts to get "emo." And even after that he seems to have gotten over everything and moved on by the end of the game (which is why is portrayal as a broody emo kid in AC and KH kind of bugs me).

Tidus, I feel, comes off as a spoiled, insecure and almost selfish celebrity who acts out to hide the fact that he has daddy issues. Thankfully, though, Tidus dealing with Jects poor fathering comes off as much more realistic than the standard brooding hero archtype. You can tell that it defiantly bothers him and is something that he hasn't gotten over yet, and occasionally gets upset over it throughout the game. But rather than get emo over it he picks himself up and continues with the journey.

My mind is a bit foggy on the finer details of the story, but what was Tidus's significant role of being in the party? I can't quite think of anything other than his relation to Jecht. And maybe when they found out the truth about the Final Aeon...Idk, even then seemed like a group effort/decision.

I feel like Tidus' role in the story was to try and give us someone that we can relate to. He's the closest thing to a normal person in a cast that contains a furry, a sorceress with way too much cleavage and a cheery, athletic south Asian guy.

 

[4 Aces]

That was 95 pages back, from a year ago.

Lmao yeah. I have no shame in what I did.

As far as my feelings on VII's story goes, I really had a hard time loving the characters as much as everyone else. Most of the time I found that a majority of the cast had pretty bland personalities (although I did like Tifa and Red XIII quite a bit as characters, I though they both were pretty well developed).

As for the whole "emo Cloud" thing, I personally think that that's something that was brought about by his portrayal in Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children. If you play the original game, you'll see that he spends a fair amount of the game as a stoic tough guy who opens up when he feels its time to (when he isn't be a douche). It really isn't until he's

Spoiler

mind-***** by Sephiroth at the crater

that he starts to get "emo." And even after that he seems to have gotten over everything and moved on by the end of the game (which is why is portrayal as a broody emo kid in AC and KH kind of bugs me).

You have a point about KH and Advent Children. Gonna have to finish through FFVII. Never managed to beat it the first time.

Tidus, I feel, comes off as a spoiled, insecure and almost selfish celebrity who acts out to hide the fact that he has daddy issues. Thankfully, though, Tidus dealing with Jects poor fathering comes off as much more realistic than the standard brooding hero archtype. You can tell that it defiantly bothers him and is something that he hasn't gotten over yet, and occasionally gets upset over it throughout the game. But rather than get emo over it he picks himself up and continues with the journey.

I feel like Tidus' role in the story was to try and give us someone that we can relate to. He's the closest thing to a normal person in a cast that contains a furry, a sorceress with way too much cleavage and a cheery, athletic south Asian guy.

Hm, yeah I can see that. I saw Tidus's role as the optimist/innocent person of the group, what with his cheery attitude and him being ignorant of all-things Spira, such as when they were at that one temple with the Lightning Horse aeon. He said something like, "We all laughed together. I didn't realize it at the time, but I was the only one really laughing." They were all faking it because they knew what the pilgrimage really meant and what the sacrifices would be, while he was ignorant to it, thinking that they were gonna travel together and eventually fight and beat Sin.

 

[Minato]

I liked Tidus in FFX. He used to bug me when I first played the game, but he was a pretty cool character.
You can't blame him for the way he acts in the game and even then, he's not as whiny as people say he is.

 

[Gates]

I guess I related a lot to Tidus because my father was also an *******. He wasn't an alcoholic (by Irish standards) and he never left my family (although in a way that made it worse), but he was still an *******.

 

[finalark]

L
Hm, yeah I can see that. I saw Tidus's role as the optimist/innocent person of the group, what with his cheery attitude and him being ignorant of all-things Spira, such as when they were at that one temple with the Lightning Horse aeon. He said something like, "We all laughed together. I didn't realize it at the time, but I was the only one really laughing." They were all faking it because they knew what the pilgrimage really meant and what the sacrifices would be, while he was ignorant to it, thinking that they were gonna travel together and eventually fight and beat Sin.

I wouldn't really say that Tidus is "innocent", more like ignorant. As you said, he spent most of the game thinking that the pilgrimage was going to end with Yuna getting all of the Aeons and then killing Sin. Much in the same way that most of us did our first time through the game, backing up the "Tidus = audience surrogate" argument.

 

[Deleted member]

I generally enjoyed Tidus's character, but his voice acting was pretty sketchy at times. I really liked his relationship with Yuna, which is why I forced myself to finish that damned X-2.

The only main character I hated was Vaan.

 

[Gates]

Vaan's status as a main character is often debated.

The fact that nobody likes him is not.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Vaan's status as a main character is often debated.

The fact that nobody likes him is not.

So tempted to sig this.

 

[Spire]

Vaan's status as a main character is often debated.

The fact that nobody likes him is not.

I like Vaan in Dissidia because a) he plays well and b) you can give him a shirt. His voice acting is as awful as ever. It's like Square-Enix is trying to transform these Final Fantasy characters into Disney characters. I enjoy Dissidia for its gameplay, but sheesh, its art style is straight up Kingdom Hearts. Half of the protagonists sound like Simba or Aladdin. Cloud, Lightning, Tifa, Kain, Yuna, and Shantotto are the only protagonists with decent voices. Almost all of the antagonists are well-voiced. Squall is perhaps the worst.

FFIV has the best voice acting, while FFVIII has the worst imo. I'm in the mood to rate the voice actors now:

[collapse=Voice Acting Ratings]Cosmos' Side:
Cosmos = 10/10
Warrior of Light = 7/10
Firion = 5/10
Onion Knight = 7/10
Cecil = 6/10
Kain = 10/10
Bartz = 7/10
Terra = 9/10
Cloud = 9/10
Tifa = 7/10
Squall = 2/10
Laguna = 4/10
Zidane = 4/10
Tidus = 7/10
Yuna = 9/10
Shantotto = 10/10
Prishe = 4/10
Vaan = 5/10
Lightning = 8/10

Chaos' Side:
Chaos = 8/10
Garland = 8/10
The Emperor = 8/10
Cloud of Darkness = 6/10
Golbez = 10/10
Exdeath = 7/10
Gilgamesh = 7/10
Kefka = 6/10
Sephiroth = 9/10
Ultimecia = 6/10
Kuja = 7/10
Jecht = 10/10
Gabranth = 7/10
Feral Chaos = 11/10

Game Averages:
FFI = 7.5/10
FFII = 6.5/10
FFIII = 6.5/10
FFIV = 8.66/10
FFV = 7/10
FFVI = 7.5/10
FFVII = 8.33/10
FFVIII = 4/10
FFIX = 5.5/10
FFX = 8.66/10
FFXI = 6.5/10
FFXII = 6/10
FFXIII = 8/10

Now in order:
1. FFIV = 8.66/10
- FFX = 8.66/10
2. FFVII = 8.33/10
3. FFXIII = 8/10
4. FFI = 7.66/10
5. FFVI = 7.5/10
6. FFV = 7/10
7. FFII = 6.5/10
- FFIII = 6.5/10
- FFXI = 6.5/10
8. FFIX = 5.5/10
9. FFVIII = 4/10[/collapse]

 

[Gates]

I like Vaan in Dissidia

Doesn't count.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I like Lightnings VA out of battle. But have you used Thundaga yet? Yeah it's that bad.

I honestly can't see how you rate Squall so low, I would put him MUCH higher than Laguna. THE GREATEST ATTACK EVER!

 

[Rutger]

Vaan's status as a main character is often debated.

The fact that nobody likes him is not.

The main character does not have to be the protagonist, Vaan is the main character regardless of how little he adds to the story.

I don't hate Vaan, he's far from being my favorite character but I don't really see any reason to hate him.

 

[finalark]

The only reason why I dislike Vaan is because he was shoehorned into XII so that way the Japanese fans wouldn't ***** about having to play as someone who actually looks like he has balls.

 

[Gates]

Yeah, this whole divide in the cultural standards for attractive males is kinda causing the rift between JRPGs and WRPGs to grow unfortunately. Americans don't want to play a game where the main character looks like a ***** and the Japanese don't want to play a game where you look like an Unreal Engine character.

 

[4 Aces]

I wouldn't really say that Tidus is "innocent", more like ignorant. As you said, he spent most of the game thinking that the pilgrimage was going to end with Yuna getting all of the Aeons and then killing Sin. Much in the same way that most of us did our first time through the game, backing up the "Tidus = audience surrogate" argument.

Reasonable assessment. Point taken.

I generally enjoyed Tidus's character, but his voice acting was pretty sketchy at times. I really liked his relationship with Yuna, which is why I forced myself to finish that damned X-2.

The only main character I hated was Vaan.

I actually enjoyed X-2 a lot. Well, the mission-style gameplay among a few other things were a bit "meh," but I enjoyed it. I guess the story was the driving force for me. I enjoyed seeing post-Sin Spira and what everyone's lives were like after. It always bugged me when an RPG ends, because I'm always like, "What are their lives/stories like now?"

Yeah, Idk the point of Vaan was. He didn't do anything. Didn't even narrate (save for maybe the end in the epilogue). Jeez.....can't remember a single interesting thing he did. I don't hate him, but I can't say I like him, since he left no lasting impressions whatsoever.

Might just be Dissidia, but Warrior of Light was bland and boring as hell. Lol he was so cliche. The righteous white knight in shining armor! I guess I can't completely blame him...his personality was made during the early days of gaming...and it might just be Dissidia. Hell, everyone in Dissidia was dumbed down. Haha

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Well ****, I guess I have to now.

Also, I determined in another thread that FFX is unbalanced. Tidus is broken in the endgame because you can just Haste up and Quick Hit everything to death and then use Osmose when you run out of MP

Sounds like VI lol (minus Quick Hit)

Seriously, learn Osmose, spam spells, wreck stuff, Osmose enemy, repeat
Tincture I hear you cry? What are they?

Also, I really liked Kefka's VA in Dissidia. Prishe's Japanese voice sounds far cooler than her English one
HOP HOP HOP EENTEHBALBALHDEEHH!

 

[Gates]

Jeez.....can't remember a single interesting thing he did.

"I'm captain Basch fon Ronsenburg of Dalmasca! Don't believe Ondore's lies!"

Might just be Dissidia, but Warrior of Light was bland and boring as hell. Lol he was so cliche. The righteous white knight in shining armor! I guess I can't completely blame him...his personality was made during the early days of gaming...and it might just be Dissidia.

Have you ever actually played FFI? The player characters don't have any dialogue whatsoever.

Sounds like VI lol (minus Quick Hit)

Seriously, learn Osmose, spam spells, wreck stuff, Osmose enemy, repeat
Tincture I hear you cry? What are they?

See, but in VI (and VII and VIII) every character can do that, which makes it balanced. Although I guess it's imbalanced by character-exclusive equips like the snow scarf for Mog and Gau.

 

[finalark]

Yeah, this whole divide in the cultural standards for attractive males is kinda causing the rift between JRPGs and WRPGs to grow unfortunately. Americans don't want to play a game where the main character looks like a ***** and the Japanese don't want to play a game where you look like an Unreal Engine character.

Although I really don't plan to ever play it, I like the way Neir handled this. In the American version of the game the protagonist was a strong, tough manly man who was on a quest to save his daughter. In the Japanese version the protagonist was a young pretty boy who was trying to save his sister (with some sort of incest subtext, I'm sure).

Also, on an interesting note, try looking at FFX like this: Tidus = Japanese hero (naive, young, and tad feminine) and Ject = American Hero (strong, mature and masculine). Look at it like that, and it comes off as the writer giving his opinion on the western idea of a hero, displaying him as a ******* who treats his son like dirt and fails to save the world.

 

[Gates]

Also, on an interesting note, try looking at FFX like this: Tidus = Japanese hero (naive, young, and tad feminine) and Ject = American Hero (strong, mature and masculine). Look at it like that, and it comes off as the writer giving his opinion on the western idea of a hero, displaying him as a ******* who treats his son like dirt and fails to save the world.

I really really hope it wasn't intended that way.

On another note though, Jecht does act exactly like an American pro athlete.

 

[finalark]

I really really hope it wasn't intended that way.

Same. I was probably reading too deep into it anyway, it was mostly something I noticed while typing that bit about Neir.

On another note though, Jecht does act exactly like an American pro athlete.

Yep. Self centered and full of himself. Tidus is kind of like the other stereotype of a celebrities, an attention *****.