General Final Fantasy Discussion - Final Fantasy XII remake incoming!

[4 Aces]

"I'm captain Basch fon Ronsenburg of Dalmasca! Don't believe Ondore's lies!"

Have you ever actually played FFI? The player characters don't have any dialogue whatsoever.

Ah, yes. How could I have forgotten. Even parodied by Mega64.

Nope, haven't played FFI. That's why I said, "might just be Dissidia." That's an interesting note about FFI. I didn't know that.

 

[Spire]

The reason why we are all feeling more and more alienated from Square-Enix is because they've chosen to cater to the young teen crowd over the maturing young adult crowd. They target that pubescent teen angst by making ****ty protagonists. IMO Cloud was the last good protagonist, though he wasn't fantastic compared to the perfection of characterization that is FFIV and FFVI.

I think Sazh is a really great character though. I wish the story had been more centric around him than Lightning, though in some ways it was. He was that older watchful guardian character with class (unlike Barret) who actually had the most amount of lines throughout the game. A damn shame that FFXIII-2 is looking to be Lightning-centric. I was hoping that if they made a sequel, we'd see the deserved and unexpected: a focus on Sazh. Who knows though? Maybe he'll play a substantial role in the story.

 

[Gates]

Sazh was an actual deep character throughout the whole story. Barrett was just a black stereotype until you found out what he was fighting for midway through the story, and then he went back to being a stereotype afterwards.

I actually don't mind that Lightning is the protagonist of FFXIII-2 because:

1. Come on, what did you expect?
2. She actually shows some character growth with how she opens up to others over the course of events in FFXIII.
3. Sazh would probably be like 50 or older by the time the events in FFXIII-2 occur. Dahj is more likely to be a playable character in that game.

 

[4 Aces]

Sazh was an actual deep character throughout the whole story. Barrett was just a black stereotype until you found out what he was fighting for midway through the story, and then he went back to being a stereotype afterwards.

I actually don't mind that Lightning is the protagonist of FFXIII-2 because:

1. Come on, what did you expect?
2. She actually shows some character growth with how she opens up to others over the course of events in FFXIII.
3. Sazh would probably be like 50 or older by the time the events in FFXIII-2 occur. Dahj is more likely to be a playable character in that game.

I like your fish avatar. Or whatever it is.

Which one is Versus then? If that's a FFXIII spin-off as well, then dang, that's a lot to keep track of and play.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I think it's a Dragon.

 

[4 Aces]

I think it's a Dragon.

Maybe it's Spiro? Haven't seen that character around in ages.

 

[finalark]

The reason why we are all feeling more and more alienated from Square-Enix is because they've chosen to cater to the young teen crowd over the maturing young adult crowd. They target that pubescent teen angst by making ****ty protagonists. IMO Cloud was the last good protagonist, though he wasn't fantastic compared to the perfection of characterization that is FFIV and FFVI.

I disagree with the idea that every FF after VII is an emo angst fest. The only FF I can think of that really fits that description was VIII with its bleak tone and protagonist who doesn't care about anyone or anything (say what you will about Riona, but IMO that was one of the most forced and half-***** "romances" I've ever seen). I personally think that a few of the post VII protagonists were actually pretty strong (namely Zidane and Tidus).

I think that XII was a good attempt to appeal to a maturing audience. The world, story and characters were something akin to what you might find in a western RPG. The dialog ditched the melodramatic animu BS for more epic and hammy dialog. Plus it was noticeably lacing in angst.

But yeah, Square is still trying to target the typical Japanese nerd with the FF series rather than reach out to its maturing western audience.

I think Sazh is a really great character though. I wish the story had been more centric around him than Lightning, though in some ways it was. He was that older watchful guardian character with class (unlike Barret) who actually had the most amount of lines throughout the game. A damn shame that FFXIII-2 is looking to be Lightning-centric. I was hoping that if they made a sequel, we'd see the deserved and unexpected: a focus on Sazh. Who knows though? Maybe he'll play a substantial role in the story.

Sazh is my favorite XIII character, it was nice to see a black character who actually acts like a human being, especially in a Japanese game. For me, Sazh is who Barret should have been. Sazh is a developed character who actually pretty interesting and enjoyable. Barret is a stereotype with a back story.

Which one is Versus then? If that's a FFXIII spin-off as well, then dang, that's a lot to keep track of and play.

Yeah, its a spin-off but has no connection to XIII's story. I'm honestly expecting it to be renamed eventually like Agito was.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Revolution is BACK!

 

[Gates]

I like your fish avatar.

Maybe it's Spiro? Haven't seen that character around in ages.

It's a dragon. It's Spike from the greatest show ever.

The dialog ditched the melodramatic animu BS for more epic and hammy dialog.

No, they ditched the melodramatic animu BS for some melodramatic pseudo-Shakespeare BS. It's not a step forward, it's just a step sideways.

Revolution is BACK!

Really? Awesome.

 

[finalark]

No, they ditched the melodramatic animu BS for some melodramatic pseudo-Shakespeare BS. It's not a step forward, it's just a step sideways.

Well, I liked the change. But yeah, you're right there.

 

[Spire]

I disagree with the idea that every FF after VII is an emo angst fest. The only FF I can think of that really fits that description was VIII with its bleak tone and protagonist who doesn't care about anyone or anything (say what you will about Riona, but IMO that was one of the most forced and half-***** "romances" I've ever seen). I personally think that a few of the post VII protagonists were actually pretty strong (namely Zidane and Tidus).

I think that XII was a good attempt to appeal to a maturing audience. The world, story and characters were something akin to what you might find in a western RPG. The dialog ditched the melodramatic animu BS for more epic and hammy dialog. Plus it was noticeably lacing in angst.

But yeah, Square is still trying to target the typical Japanese nerd with the FF series rather than reach out to its maturing western audience.

lol you defend Tidus and Zidane before agreeing with my statement anyways. They do fit the category. Zidane was the perfect FFIX protagonist though. Vivi seems like he would have been better, however if they had gone that route - what, with his relation to a giant cloned/produced army - then it would have drawn too strong a parallel to Cloud's role in FF7. I'd like to see a Final Fantasy where the protagonist turns on his/her comrades and becomes the antagonist, similar to what Sephiroth and Kuja did prior to FF7 and FF9. As such, a large portion of the game would involve the protagonist fighting to destroy the world or whatever after recognizing a means and a reason to do so. Through their eyes, it'd be righteous, through your former comrades' the opposite. And to avoid the cliché, there would be no higher evil controlling you, so the end-game would not see you finally rejoining your friends to fight the the string-puller. The evil is either you or them, however you see the story unfold. It would truly be about contrasting views without the support of good/evil stereotypes to persuade your view in any way.

No, they ditched the melodramatic animu BS for some melodramatic pseudo-Shakespeare BS. It's not a step forward, it's just a step sideways.

Awesome. I lol'd and nodded my head. I too liked the change though. It wasn't fantastic, but it was far more western than any other Final Fantasy and thus earns my praise (while alienating a lot of FF fans). FFXII is in my top three Final Fantasies.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Not trying to start a Trend, but in terms of Story:

1) FFVI
2) FFX
3) FFVII

In terms of gameplay:

1) FFXIII
2) FFX(loved the grid/Crystanium)
3)FFXII

In terms of ...just in general:

1)FFVI
2)FFXII
3)FFVII/FFXIII(It's a tie, tbh)

My reasoning is this:

1: A very good story combined with good gameplay, etc
2: Sandbox games make me go madskillz
3: Iunno, they both fit it to me.

Anyways, just wanted to add this. Also Sazh is one of my favorite FF characters ever. His devotion for his kid is so inspiring.

 

[Spire]

In the grand scheme of FF, Sazh is the most well written character to date. He is essentially the best character they've ever created. I think they purposefully designed him to be da besssst, I mean... he has a personal little Chocobo, the series' main mascot.

[collapse=Sazh]

[/collapse]

They should make a spin-off FFXIII movie based around Sazh.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

In the grand scheme of FF, Quina Quen is the most well written character to date. She is essentially the best character they've ever created. I think they purposefully designed her to be da besssst, I mean... she has a taste for frogs, the series' main mascot.

[collapse=Quina Quen]

[/collapse]

They should make a spin-off FFIX movie based around Quina Quen.

 

[Spire]

The ironic thing about your post is that I have actually fully supported that notion since I originally played FFIX. Hehe.

 

[Gates]

In the grand scheme of FF, Quina Quen is the most well written character to date. She is essentially the best character they've ever created. I think they purposefully designed her to be da besssst, I mean... she has a taste for frogs, the series' main mascot.

[collapse=Quina Quen]

[/collapse]

They should make a spin-off FFIX movie based around Quina Quen.

I have nothing negative to say about this post.

 

[Spire]

Now that Dissidia 012 is out, can we please talk about Dissidia 3 possible characters please? I devised a while back that if they add any more characters over the course of two more games, they'll be as follows:

FFI: Bahamut, The Four Fiends
FFII: Maria, Deumion
FFIII: Xande, Refia
FFIV: Zemus
FFV: Faris Scherwiz
FFVI: Locke Cole, Biggs & Wedge
FFVII: Jenova
FFVIII: Seifer Almasy
FFIX: Zorne & Thorne, Vivi Orunitia
FFX: Seymour Guado
FFXI: Eald'Narche, Promathia
FFXII: Balthier, Vayne Solidor
FFXIII: Galenth Dysley, Yaag Rosch, Sazh Katzroy

 

[Deleted member]

Who's down for FFX's Maechen in Dissidia 3?

 

[Gates]

Who's down for the Hypello Shoopuff driver in Dissidia 3?

 

[Spire]

Man **** you guys

 

[Gates]

Haters gonna hate.

Ride ze Shoopuf?

I found a new FFX metal tribute band. They're first album is really great. It's called Ride The Shoopuf.

Spoiler

(That was a Metallica reference)

 

[Spire]

I forgot about that thing. Man what were they thinking? Was that FFX's attempt to create a new cartoon mascot like the godforsaken Moombas of FFVIII? Either that or FFX's response to Jar Jar Binks. That guy would have been way cool in the pre-FF7 games or even FFIX, but c'mon not the "neo" Final Fantasies. Just feels like a failed cash-in.

 

[Gates]

lol the Hypello weren't really overplayed or anything and I'm guessing that it only sounded like Jar Jar Binks in the dub. So probably none of those things you just said.

 

[mystery_dungeon]

In the grand scheme of FF, Quina Quen is the most well written character to date. She is essentially the best character they've ever created. I think they purposefully designed her to be da besssst, I mean... she has a taste for frogs, the series' main mascot.

[collapse=Quina Quen]

[/collapse]

They should make a spin-off FFIX movie based around Quina Quen.

 

[Gates]

Man, this reminds me of my favorite FF ship.

Quina x Food

 

[mystery_dungeon]

Man, this reminds me of my favorite FF ship.

Quina x Food

But...but Quina so happy with Vivi.

 

[Gates]

Wasn't that a picture of her after she ate a lobster dinner or something?

 

[mystery_dungeon]

No, that was when Zidane suggested Quina and Vivi to get married in Conde Petie.

This funny scene in paticular.

 

[Kuraudo]

Who's down for the Hypello Shoopuff driver in Dissidia 3?

They sound like Goldmember from Austin Powers to me.

Spoilers for these 012 videos. They're all the story mode pre-battle quotes for each boss battle you do in both the 012 storyline and the original 013 one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvz1yksVXFE&feature=related - Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHpXmOTrFqk&feature=related - Part 2

Spoiler

Exdeath: So, you offer your life in exchange for theirs?
Kain: Of course not. I offer yours.

^^^

This quote for one of the most badass one-liner exchanges in Final Fantasy.

 

[Spire]

Yeah, Kain is the saving grace from the massive cesspool of bad acting that the other protagonists contribute to. He really is a complete badass in Dissidia 012.

 

[finalark]

Yeah, Kain is the saving grace from the massive cesspool of bad acting that the other protagonists contribute to. He really is a complete badass in Dissidia 012.

Kain has the most bad *** voice they ever could have given him.

Am I the only one who thinks that with Dissidia's English voice actors it sounds like they're all trying to out ham each other?

 

[Kuraudo]

I see it too. At least, amongst the new characters. The old ones for whatever time they get in the 012 storyline didn't seem to bother with the out-hamming thing. Except for Kefka. But that's just him being more in-character then before. LOL

Cloud was freaking hardcore in the appearances he had during the 12th cycle. Even his exchanges and demeanor throughout the 013 storyline are pretty cool too. He's so much more confident and attitudinal.

To Sephiroth, going from the first Dissidia's, "I've got a few things...to settle with you."

To the short and effective, "Let's end this."

Or,

Spoiler

Sephiroth: You fight, not knowing the truth?
Cloud: Enough talk. Let's go.

It makes me feel as though, at least in the world of Dissidia, Cloud's confident in being Sephiroth's equal rather then it being some massive struggle and desperate attempt to save the Planet.

/end cloud fanboying

 

[Gates]

Kuraudo, I don't think your Cloud fanboying will ever end.

 

[finalark]

Spoiler

Sephiroth: You fight, not knowing the truth?
Cloud: Enough talk. Let's go.

^This is a million times closer to Cloud's characterization in VII than pretty much anything FFVII related released since KH decided they needed a brooding hero at some point.

 

[Kuraudo]

^This is a million times closer to Cloud's characterization in VII than pretty much anything FFVII related released since KH decided they needed a brooding hero at some point.

I really think that they intended for Cloud to start going back to that after Advent Children, as was shown by the end of the movie when he came to terms with his guilts. Even in Dirge of Cerberus he's more like his old self.

 

[finalark]

Even in Dirge of Cerberus he's more like his old self.

I really don't remember the way Cloud acted in DoC. Then again, the only thing I remember from DoC was the cyberpunk loli, the scientist chick, Gackt and Cid being awesome.

 

[Kuraudo]

The fact that Cloud's an active fighter in protecting the Planet (he is a leading force in the ground troops that did battle against Deepground,) the little pep talk to himself and Fenrir "Time to go, Fenrir." and the fact that he so casually talks to Vincent on the phone along with Tifa & Barret, while fighting off enemy forces...

Yeah to me? Cloud doesn't have to act like some truly arrogant ******* or even how he was fully at the end of VII. Let's think about it for a second here. Cloud lost a good 5 years of his life living a lie. By the time he became himself again at the end of VII, it was like he was 16 years old now that he was himself once more, and was forced to grow up fast.

Hence the Cloud Strife we have now at the end of Advent Children and onward into the compilation (and Dissidia, imo, since he carries the right balance of seriousness with his attitude).

 

[Deleted member]

I would get Dissidia, but that requires getting a game system that's nearly dead. No thanks, Sony. Try a console next time.

 

[finalark]

I would get Dissidia, but that requires getting a game system that's nearly dead. No thanks, Sony. Try a console next time.

Blame Square. Besides, the PSP actually has a lot of good games. The only reason why people ignore it is because the only thing you can compare it to is the DS.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

^ By the time their portable was decent it's specs were obsolete. Sad, but true.