General Final Fantasy Discussion - Final Fantasy XII remake incoming!

[Gates]

lol Spire.

I liked the story for XIII more than XII. The characters were better developed at the very least and the world didn't feel derivative. There was still a final boss that came out of nowhere, but it wasn't as bad a story as a lot of people say. I liked the ending though.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

I seriously teared up at the end of 13.

 

[Spire]

lol Spire.

I liked the story for XIII more than XII. The characters were better developed at the very least and the world didn't feel derivative. There was still a final boss that came out of nowhere, but it wasn't as bad a story as a lot of people say. I liked the ending though.

You think the final boss of XIII came out of no where?

Spoiler

Orphan was mentioned throughout most of the game.

Lol oh, you were talking about 12. Freaking Roman numerals. Yeah 12's story was really weak (and confusing). If not for it's similarities to Star Wars, I'd outright hate it. Anyways at least I got to defend XIII.

 

[Gates]

Orphan was mentioned throughout most of the game.

Was he? I don't remember anyone really talking about him until Chapter XI. I didn't read the in-game encyclopedia though, so idk.

 

[finalark]

You think the final boss of XIII came out of no where?

Spoiler

Orphan was mentioned throughout most of the game.

Yeah 12's story was really weak (and confusing). If not for it's similarities to Star Wars, I'd outright hate it.

Pretty much. It was an enjoyable story but as a whole pretty weak. The fact that the only memorable characters were Basch and Balthier really killed it too. Everyone else has zero personality.

This can mostly be blamed on several disagreements between Matsuno (the game's director) and Square.

Matsuno wanted a story with more western characters (such as the previously mentioned Basch and Balthier) but Square thought that a game with an older man as the protagonist wouldn't exactly go over well with the Japanese, forcing him to create Vaan and other characters to appeal to Japanese tastes.

I'm not sure how accurate that is, I read it in an article a way while back. Some details might be off but if memory serves that's the general idea behind what happened.

 

[Spire]

No it's true. Basche was originally slated to be the protagonist (hence the rivalry with his brother Gabranth, an allusion to Cecil and Golbez) but Square thought that a 36 year old was too old. They wanted a wider audience so they created pipsqueak Vaan. And seeing as how HAL cut Mewtwo out of SSB64 for Jigglypuff, I think it's safe to say that the Japanese can't cope with badasses, opting out for wimpy characters instead.

In retrospect, if Basche had been the protagonist, FFXII would probably be legendary. Man, it would have been awesome if FFXII had been a sequel to Vagrant Story and the protagonist was Ashley. Though I guess playing as a dude named Ashley just wouldn't fly by today's standards.

 

[Gates]

It's not just Japanese. Why do you think Shia LeBouf was in Indiana Jones 4? Because Harrison Ford is like 80 and they thought people wouldn't relate to him. The movie went on to suck (for lots of other reasons too but still). Hell, 9 year old Anakin Skywalker was put in the Star Wars prequels to sell more toys to kids. Because why would you want to be Han Solo or Boba Fett when you can be a little kid?

 

[finalark]

No it's true. Basche was originally slated to be the protagonist (hence the rivalry with his brother Gabranth, an allusion to Cecil and Golbez) but Square thought that a 36 year old was too old. They wanted a wider audience so they created pipsqueak Vaan. And seeing as how HAL cut Mewtwo out of SSB64 for Jigglypuff, I think it's safe to say that the Japanese can't cope with badasses, opting out for wimpy characters instead.

Honestly, I'm not surprised. I don't mean to insult anyone, but the Japanese tend to have more feminine tastes while Americans have more masculine tastes. That's probably why most male characters in JRPGs look more like girls claiming to be men while in WRPGs male characters could practically give you testosterone poisoning.

In retrospect, if Basche had been the protagonist, FFXII would probably be legendary. Man, it would have been awesome if FFXII had been a sequel to Vagrant Story and the protagonist was Ashley. Though I guess playing as a dude named Ashley just wouldn't fly by today's standards.

I've wanted to play Vagrant Story for so long, but I can never find a copy. FFXII's story as a whole becomes much, much more interesting when you see Basch as the protagonist. If you pay attention, it's pretty obvious that Vaan was just kind of tossed in and that Basch is the real hero.

Kind of like how FFX you can get a whole new angle on the story if you ignore Titus' immaturity and pay attention to Yuna, seeing her as the protagonist.

 

[Fayte Isaac]

If you pay attention, it's pretty obvious that Vaan was just kind of tossed in and that Basch is the real hero.

Seriously... i mean, it seems that the closer u get to the end of the game, the less Vaan speaks... Seriously... Vaan is such a horrible protagonist that i actually thought Penelo was the Protagonist for the first 10 of the game (after the prologue/tutorial with Vaan's brother)

 

[Spire]

Pretty cool that Gabranth got a Basche costume in Dissidia 012.

 

[Spire]

Last character revealed! Desperado Chaos

He also seems to be the antagonist of Duodecim.

 

[finalark]

Why is there a face on his crotch?

 

[Gates]

He had a second head in the original Dissidia.

It's based off Amano art.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

So...pretty much got the plat. Trophy on XIII :D.

Was fun but now... I can't say I'll replay it.

 

[Kesusjade]

I'm probably the only person here who liked VIII.
I'm wearing a flame-retardant suit. Come at me.

 

[finalark]

VIII?

Not to my tastes, but I really don't have anything against it.

 

[Black Waltz]

I'm probably the only person here who liked VIII.
I'm wearing a flame-retardant suit. Come at me.

I liked VIII. A lot. Even cosplayed as Zell at Otakon last year.

 

[Spire]

I loved FFVIII. I thoroughly enjoyed the GFs and the Pokémon-like collecting of them all. I really enjoyed the general designs of everything in VIII. Story was weak, but it introduced my favorite character in the franchise: Edea*.

*Who was actually created pre-FFVII, but could not find a place in that game, thus was saved for VIII. As such, you could say that the entire game was built around Edea.

 

[-Ran]

I'm actually currently replaying through FF8. I believe the last time I played it was when it was first released. Towards the end of Disc 2, and I really have found the junctioning system significantly easier to deal with than I remembered it. I've only used Draw a handful of times for Shell/Protect and now Triple. Everything else I get from item converts. ;d

 

[Gates]

I'm probably the only person here who liked VIII.
I'm wearing a flame-retardant suit. Come at me.

It's definitely not the greatest game in the series or even the best of the PS1 games, but it's not as bad as a lot of people say it is. Spending a bunch of time drawing magic is annoying but not gamebreakingly so. The plot isn't the worst in the series but it's also not the best.

 

[Kuraudo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gyCXnJG3nY

Desperado Chaos gameplay.

Be very ****ing afraid.

 

[Spire]

****

Desperado Chaos is way too ****ing hardcore. Like that **** is terrifying.

 

[Kuraudo]

I was playing Dissidia last night, and constantly fighting Chaos.

...

Desperado Chaos is even bigger then the original. Holy crap.

 

[finalark]

All I can say is that I'm glad then went with epic ominous choir music over that cheesy emo song that played for the Chaos battle in the original.

 

[Kuraudo]

Don't quote me on this, but I did hear that The Messenger is still in the game. But that is the new Chaos song, yeah.

However, after the 3:20 mark or so, it shifts into hard rock with vocals. Here's the kicker though. The lyrics actually relate to Garland & Chaos 100%.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpOQ4nkEt54

It's pretty damn awesome.

 

[Matt07]

VIII, oh man I loved that game xD. I believe it's one of the first Final Fantasy's I played. I didn't get around to beating it, but I'll purchase it after I'm done beating VII for the first time, haha.

Edit:VII helps me understand Advent Children/Complete so much more .

 

[Spire]

Edit:VII helps me understand Advent Children/Complete so much more .

Well DUH. VII is the best part of the FFVII Compilation.

 

[Kuraudo]

Crisis Core is a worthy prequel, VII is the main game of win obviously, and it wasn't until they released Advent Children Complete that they found a proper sequel, imo. lol

 

[Spire]

I still don't think AC is a proper sequel to VII. In fact, I think AC is garbage.

 

[Gates]

I didn't like AC. Anyone who's thinking about watching it should just look up the fight between Sephiroth and Cloud on Youtube. You'll save about an hour and a half of stupid dialogue, stupid new villains, stupid old villains, cameos so brief they're nearly pointless, mediocre fight scenes, and Cloud being moody and emo.

 

[Kuraudo]

Knock yourselves out.

...

Did you guys even watch Advent Children Complete though? If you didn't like that one, then okay. /shrug

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I agree, that AC Complete is (excuse the pun) completely different. If you haven't watched then go do so. If you have, then profit with the rest of us.

 

[Kuraudo]

The added scenes and extended/altered scenes add more of a full experience to it all.

It grates me any time someone calls Cloud moody and emo, tbh. When someone's just trolling, it doesn't, but when someone doesn't look at the big picture of WHY he's been pushed the way he has, and the rough road he has to follow to forgive himself, and just dismisses it as "emo and moody", yyyeah this is one of those things where I'll adamantly speak of how wrong someone is.

 

[finalark]

I didn't like AC. Anyone who's thinking about watching it should just look up the fight between Sephiroth and Cloud on Youtube. You'll save about an hour and a half of stupid dialogue, stupid new villains, stupid old villains, cameos so brief they're nearly pointless, mediocre fight scenes, and Cloud being moody and emo.

This sums up my opinion on AC perfectly.

A while back a friend and I were rewatching it and there's one exchange near the end of the movie that was just so bad it was good.

The lifestream/whatever: "This one's too big to adopt!"

Cloud: "Oh well, tough luck kid."

Seriously, Square? That's the best writing you could do? What was the point of that random white void scene anyway?

Actually, what was the point of AC?

 

[Matt07]

Well DUH. VII is the best part of the FFVII Compilation.

I know, haha .

I also loved AC, and Complete is better because of the extended scenes. Well worth the watch, IMO.

 

[finalark]

Crisis Core was pretty good too.

 

[Kuraudo]

This sums up my opinion on AC perfectly.

A while back a friend and I were rewatching it and there's one exchange near the end of the movie that was just so bad it was good.

The lifestream/whatever: "This one's too big to adopt!"

Cloud: "Oh well, tough luck kid."

Seriously, Square? That's the best writing you could do? What was the point of that random white void scene anyway?

Actually, what was the point of AC?

....... /facepalm

That was Aerith and Zack. Cloud was on the verge of death, that much closer to joining them in the Lifestream/afterlife. It wasn't Cloud's time to go yet, so he recovered and awoke in the Church, as you saw afterwards.

That's the point of the white void scene.

The point of Advent Children (and by extension, Complete) was to expand on the story and to give us a look at what happened after the vague ending of the original game. Did the world survive Meteor? How did the people cope with the crippling aftermath? Those things. VII ended on a very vague note and the only thing we got was the 500 Years Later thing where Red XIII watches on over the ruins of Midgar that are covered in forestry and all.

Nothing wrong with a sequel if it captures the essence of the world it's told around. While Advent Children was good, it left a lot to interpretation and left you guessing. Advent Children Complete gives you, no pun intended, a complete package. Cloud's reasonings for the way he acts are given more perspective, the other characters get a little more screen time, explaining Geostigma (which, btw, actually seems like a serious THREAT this time), blood, death, violence, a lot of the darker stuff that was in the original game is here.

Know your stuff before you dismiss things.

And if you still don't like it, then that's your thing and I gotta respect that.

 

[finalark]

That was Aerith and Zack. Cloud was on the verge of death, that much closer to joining them in the Lifestream/afterlife. It wasn't Cloud's time to go yet, so he recovered and awoke in the Church, as you saw afterwards.

That's the point of the white void scene.

I got that, I was just saying that the dialog was poorly written.

The point of Advent Children (and by extension, Complete) was to expand on the story and to give us a look at what happened after the vague ending of the original game. Did the world survive Meteor? How did the people cope with the crippling aftermath? Those things. VII ended on a very vague note and the only thing we got was the 500 Years Later thing where Red XIII watches on over the ruins of Midgar that are covered in forestry and all.

I'm okay with that, it just wasn't very well written (again).

Nothing wrong with a sequel if it captures the essence of the world it's told around. While Advent Children was good, it left a lot to interpretation and left you guessing. Advent Children Complete gives you, no pun intended, a complete package. Cloud's reasonings for the way he acts are given more perspective, the other characters get a little more screen time, explaining Geostigma (which, btw, actually seems like a serious THREAT this time), blood, death, violence, a lot of the darker stuff that was in the original game is here.

I haven't seen complete, I know I should I just haven't gotten a chance to. The original film hardly explained anything, wasn't very well written, the cameos felt pointless (Why did you give the second best character in the original game one line?) and as a whole it just felt like one big excuse for Cloud to fight Sephiroth.

And if you still don't like it, then that's your thing and I gotta respect that.

I really didn't like the original film, but I want to see complete before I judge it.

 

[Kuraudo]

Most certainly fair enough! I do highly recommend you do though.

 

[Gates]

Actually, what was the point of AC?

Why do companies do anything?

I haven't seen the ending of FFVII so I honestly can't say if it's that vague or not. Having an open-ended ending for a movie or a game isn't always a bad thing though. Using FFXIII's open ending as an example, wondering what happened after the ending of that game is like wondering what happened to the seven dwarves from Snow White. How did the dwarves make ends meet after Snow White left? Were they able to keep their house clean? Was their mining operation successful? These questions are never answered because the focus of the story isn't on them, it's on Snow White, the prince, the witch, and strong subliminal context. Similarly, FFXIII was about the main characters' struggles as L'Cie and FFVII was, ultimately, about Cloud's struggle with his identity.

Again, I haven't seen the ending of FFVII, but I assume that they wouldn't have made it so ambiguous as to warrant a sequel movie being made of it to explain what happened. At least not in 1997 before Square was the financial equivalent of Disney in Japan. Nowadays I wouldn't put it past them. I mean hell, look at what happened with FFXIII.