Ryu Shimazu
Smash Master
They need to drop it, but they won't. They'll make it decent and then that's that.
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General Final Fantasy Discussion - Final Fantasy XII remake incoming!
- Thread starter finalark
- Start date
finalark
SNORLAX
I'm not expecting a monthly fee until the PS3 version comes out. Or as you said, they changed it so much to the point where critics rejudged it.
Honestly, I just want a good FFMMO.
finalark
SNORLAX
This is why I'm apposed to the 1-10 scale. Way to easy to abuse, and I honestly believe that the PS/N64 era when revolutionary (for their time) games where everywhere kind of caused this. People got so used to a 9/10 being a good score to the point where anything below a 7 is absolute trash.
That why I use 1-5, personally.
finalark
SNORLAX
Gets another four if it's an installment in a long running franchise or in one that has any popularity to it's name.
Ryu Shimazu
Smash Master
I teared up at the end of FFXIII. Such a loser...
Ryu Shimazu
Smash Master
^ haha, your such an ***. I actually found 13's story quite compelling to be honest.
XIII's story wasn't that great imo. The whole general conflict of the story, specifically between Pulse and Cocoon, is never fully explained in the game's cutscenes, so the player only has vague ideas that something horrible has happened to the main characters. The villain's motive is also incredibly stupid and doesn't make sense. It was mostly only made good by its characters, who are very well developed.
I think after Sephiroth, Square Enix kind of forgot how to write good villains. Ultimecia and Eada are kind of ineffectual and their plan doesn't make a lot of sense. We also don't really see that they're the ones pulling the strings until the later discs. Kuja isn't a bad villain, but he just comes off as really vain and irritating. I know with villains you need to have them be cocky and absorbed in themselves and that's actually a characteristic of many good villains like Lex Luthor, but Kuja at times seems more self-absorbed than interested in taking over the world. Maybe I just haven't played far enough into FFIX, but it just seems to me like Kuja would be kind of ineffectual had he not been so manipulative. FFX doesn't really have a singular villain, but rather it's the system in Spira that facilitates Sin's revival that needs to be stopped. Jecht isn't so much a villain as he is a victim of the cycle, although he was an abusive alcoholic father. FFXI has no real villain because it's an MMO. I didn't play all the way through FFXII but apparently somewhere near the end of the game the villain is revealed to be a rogue god-thing who was controlling it all from behind the scenes? Could you pull anything bigger out of your ***?
Note that any time I talk about FFXIII characters in this post, I am referring to everyone but Snow.
I think after Sephiroth, Square Enix kind of forgot how to write good villains. Ultimecia and Eada are kind of ineffectual and their plan doesn't make a lot of sense. We also don't really see that they're the ones pulling the strings until the later discs. Kuja isn't a bad villain, but he just comes off as really vain and irritating. I know with villains you need to have them be cocky and absorbed in themselves and that's actually a characteristic of many good villains like Lex Luthor, but Kuja at times seems more self-absorbed than interested in taking over the world. Maybe I just haven't played far enough into FFIX, but it just seems to me like Kuja would be kind of ineffectual had he not been so manipulative. FFX doesn't really have a singular villain, but rather it's the system in Spira that facilitates Sin's revival that needs to be stopped. Jecht isn't so much a villain as he is a victim of the cycle, although he was an abusive alcoholic father. FFXI has no real villain because it's an MMO. I didn't play all the way through FFXII but apparently somewhere near the end of the game the villain is revealed to be a rogue god-thing who was controlling it all from behind the scenes? Could you pull anything bigger out of your ***?
Note that any time I talk about FFXIII characters in this post, I am referring to everyone but Snow.
finalark
SNORLAX
I don't know, I think FF villains are a mixed bag as a whole. For instance, going "lol jk a guy on the moon was behind it the whole time" in FFIV isn't that different from going "lol jk it was a god thing the whole time" in FFXII.
And I really think that because Kuja was both self-absorbed and manipulative really makes him work as a villain.
Ryu Shimazu
Smash Master
I will add that the final boss on XIII was terrible. XII was pretty bad as well, but I loved the fact ARCADIA was in it, lolz. And actually, in XIII:
It's more or less Falcie serve humans, and one falcie breaks away to create an ultimate sacrifice [cocoon] to call god back and make things different. The final boss is Orphan, which is the time bomb to blow up the world. That's not really the benevolent god ending, but more or less a dissapointing one as your killing whats meant to die, and Vanille/Fang turn into Ragnarok and defy fate by saving Cocoon still.
I will say this, if you read through the whole compilation, and do some reading (as VII failed at explaining everything imo), Sephiroth was quite a villain, but Jenova was right behind him. I'm not saying Sephy wasn't the all time villian (or that he came back more times than michael myers via Lifestream/Jenova BS), but Jenova fit in there too as a demigoddess like figure. So really to me the last "Super all time villian"was VI. VII had a joint-villian, VIII I could care less, IX was confusing(but amazing), and X/XII are as you explained.
XIII had a big bad villian, but he wasn't the final fight, which left you going.. "huh?"
Forgive me for typos, getting ready for work.
The relationship between Sephiroth and Jenova and how that affects Aeris is interesting. She is the last of the Cetra, which were a people Jenova sought to exterminate. Sephiroth has Jenova in his DNA, hence his ability to control her from the Northern Crater. Jenova's genes work in a fashion that anyone with them cannot fully control themselves as they are slave to reuniting into one form. While one may claim that Sephiroth killed Aeris using Jenova's transformed body (to represent himself), one may also argue that if it weren't for the Jenova gene in Sephiroth in the first place, that nothing would have happened in the first place. Jenova is the source of true antagonism in Final Fantasy VII. It's the chicken or the egg scenario. Jenova was the original chicken, Sephiroth was an egg, but then the relationship switched and Sephiroth became the chicken from which Jenova was controlled and thus laid. So, Sephiroth may have made a conscious effort to kill Aeris through Jenova as she became an extension of his own mind, but this could simply be Jenova's genes acting through Sephiroth. Essentially, Sephiroth became the mind of the disparate embodied Jenova; an alien which once maintained a single form and now exists through its own remnants and the DNA encoding within SOLDIERs and the like.
So now that I think about it, the entirety of FF7 is Hojo's fault.
So now that I think about it, the entirety of FF7 is Hojo's fault.
Good point. idk, I guess I just kind of expected Square to grow beyond that.
Kuraudo
4Aerith
That and random Necron in Final Fantasy IX with no real build-up towards him/it whatsoever.
Also, we're forgetting Hojo. Sephiroth, though menacing and my favorite Final Fantasy villain, seems to be outclassed by Hojo as a whole. He's the one that set Cloud and Zack up for the beginning of their hellacious lives (and the reason that Cloud was a puppet to Sephiroth in the first place, due to experiments), the reason behind the monster that IS Sephiroth, and only goaded on the Planet's destruction in the name of science and all. True insanity whereas Sephiroth, I felt, was just severely misguided. The things he did are nothing short of insane, but after misinterpretting what could very well be his past and being made as the "perfect monster" (which is, in fact, true. just replace monster with SOLDIER and you got it)
Tough call, but in the end, Hojo and Sephiroth both are damn great villains.
Also, we're forgetting Hojo. Sephiroth, though menacing and my favorite Final Fantasy villain, seems to be outclassed by Hojo as a whole. He's the one that set Cloud and Zack up for the beginning of their hellacious lives (and the reason that Cloud was a puppet to Sephiroth in the first place, due to experiments), the reason behind the monster that IS Sephiroth, and only goaded on the Planet's destruction in the name of science and all. True insanity whereas Sephiroth, I felt, was just severely misguided. The things he did are nothing short of insane, but after misinterpretting what could very well be his past and being made as the "perfect monster" (which is, in fact, true. just replace monster with SOLDIER and you got it)
Tough call, but in the end, Hojo and Sephiroth both are damn great villains.
finalark
SNORLAX
Yeah, that was annoying. He just kind of showed up out of nowhere and then was never mention again.
Big lipped alligator moment.
Well, Square seems to be rather fond of pulling a bad guy out of nowhere near the end of the game, or at least setting someone up to be the big bad then shooing them away by revealing the real bad guy.
FF1 - Garland ends up being the true bad guy in the form of Chaos.
FF3 - Cloud of Darkness shows up and starts acting like a prick.
FF4 - Zemus was pulling the strings.
FF6 - Kefka is the one you should worry about, not the emperor.
Ect.
FF9 did this to death though IMO. At first it's like "OMG THE QUEEN'S EVIL!" Then its like "lol jk Kuja is the real bad guy. Jk, it's actually Garland, jk again, it's Kuja. No, wait, it's Necron! Problem?"
I don't know, I always interpreted Jenova to be pulling the strings the entire time. I always believed that she had a great influence over a lot of things. She could have use Hojo's own insanity to her own advantage then convinced Shinra to create SOLDIER thus spreading her genes which eventually lead to Sephiroth. She used his origins to drive him mad and then proceeded to implant thoughts into his head and used him as a puppet to achieve her own goals.
So in my opinion, Jenova was behind everything the whole time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ds4xhz-xIY&feature=related
To be fair, that was only at the halfway point of the game.
You know, the whole thing about a guy named Necron coming in at the end and being the real bad guy reminds me of another story in comic books where a guy named Nekron came in at the end and ended up being the real bad guy. I believe it was called The Killing Joke.
finalark
SNORLAX
True, so it really doesn't feel like they just pulled a new villain out of their *** at the last second. Either way, they are pretty fond of the whole "jk this is the real bad guy" thing.
No, I'm pretty sure it was Crisis on Infinite Earths.
Sephiroths Masamune
Shocodoro Blagshidect
But how could she manipulate someone who never had Jenova cells?
I think Spire explained it pretty well about the whole Jenova + Sephiroth relationship. Although she pretty much got Sephiroth up to the point where he jumped into the life stream, from that point onward Sephiroth absorbed knowledge from the life stream and somehow overpowered her will and became the puppeteer. That's why I don't consider Jenova the "main villain" more like a role than anything else.
*Tyson*
Smash Ace
This thread is full of win, i am soooo glad i came across it. My fellow brethren that have the same knowledge and love i do
Also, Thiocyan pretty sick avatar, where did you get it?
Also, Thiocyan pretty sick avatar, where did you get it?
Kuraudo
4Aerith
Meloooons...
I got the image on /v/ in some random thread and then edited myself. Made the colors more vivid and the lines sharper with some layer styles and opacity.This thread is full of win, i am soooo glad i came across it. My fellow brethren that have the same knowledge and love i do
Also, Thiocyan pretty sick avatar, where did you get it?
*Tyson*
Smash Ace
Never heard of /v/ and have no idea what that is, but wow that's pretty sick you went to all that trouble to make it even look better. Props!
Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises
Smash Hero
Tyson don't go there if you're under 18.
lmao
/v/ is technically worksafe
Not that the janitors actually keep it that way.
On the plus side they had a tifa thread the other night and I got like 90 amazing pictures, lol.
Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises
Smash Hero
The janitors are just ******** and don't know the difference between SFW and NSFW.
*Tyson*
Smash Ace
Hahaha oh it's one of THOSE sites. All makes sense now.
finalark
SNORLAX
Ever been to Four Chan?
Not exactly a pr0n site, but can function as one. Regardless, it the retched hive of scum and villainy of the interwebs.
*Tyson*
Smash Ace
So i saw a while back you guys were talking about FFXIV. Has it gotten any better?? I had high hopes for that game, only too see it get embarrassingly bad reviews and player response.
finalark
SNORLAX
I don't know, I kind of have my eye on it and whenever I hear about a new letter from the producer I sit down and read it. It sounds like it's improved, but it's not quite there yet. From what I've read they've improved several aspects of it and it's currently become better and better with each patch.
It's free to play right now so I'm considering picking up a copy. Hopefully my ****ty computer won't implode on itself. Generally I can run games pretty well if I just drop everything to lowest graphical settings and then window it at a lower resolution.
It's an excellent source of images. Most of my avatars come from there or wallbase, which is just a chan wallpaper aggregator.
FFXIV is getting better, my older brother is the main writer for it on Massively so I get a lot of exposure to it when I talk to him.
FFXIV is getting better, my older brother is the main writer for it on Massively so I get a lot of exposure to it when I talk to him.
mystery_dungeon
Smash Journeyman
finalark
SNORLAX
Can't freaking wait to see what the localization team does with his lines. It's gonna be awesome.
*Tyson*
Smash Ace
I wish they were making that game for the NGP, the graphics would have been sick! Or better yet on the PS3
Holy **** his FF8 appearance is an alt costume. **** YEAH.
Just wait for Dissidia 3 then. I can guarantee it'll either be on the NGP or PS3.
*Tyson*
Smash Ace
Yeah i thought about that, IF there ever is one. Which would be like 2016. ewwwwww So far away.