tedeth
Smash Master
I think this discussion has been had before, possibly several times, possibly in this thread.
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General Discussion & Character Rankings
- Thread starter Shaya
- Start date
Jupz
Smash Master
Yeah DJB's right. I've seen a list of excatly which characters can pummel slow enough to count as seperate attacks but I never saved it lol. I'll have to try find it.
tedeth
Smash Master
Uhhhh.... What?
It doesn't matter how fast it is, it only matters how fast you do it.
Sound like some people are misunderstanding how stale moves work.
I'd expect it to be common knowledge, but what he means is that when Zelda transforms into Sheik (and vice-versa) her entire moveset will be refreshed. Thus, her Din's Fire will regain the killing power it once had.
swordsaint
Smash Master
I can't believe you actually said that. lol. To Ted, of all people.
tedeth
Smash Master
I know that, but that's not "how stale moves work".
That's a character specific example of how to refresh stale moves.
That's a character specific example of how to refresh stale moves.
tedeth
Smash Master
God... dman it. Oh... my god.
He literally said "Stale moves is like this", then lists a very character specific example of how it works without actually giving any explanation behind it.
It was a what questioning relevance of that topic, not what he was actually saying.
He literally said "Stale moves is like this", then lists a very character specific example of how it works without actually giving any explanation behind it.
It was a what questioning relevance of that topic, not what he was actually saying.
Considering it at least has something to do with refreshing moves, I'd say it had much more relevance than your "Uhhhh.... What?"
tedeth
Smash Master
Nova
Banned via Warnings
Aero, I already explained that earlier in the topic. My question (and thus the topic atm) has nothing to do with how Zelda/PT's transformations refresh moves. -_-
Leisha
Top Tier Pillow
Alright, lets stop the fight guys.
=<
=<
tedeth
Smash Master
It's not a fight it's just a troll thinking he's smart and/or funny.
Ah, this isn't really what I'd describe as a fight really.
Edit:
The first bit of this really.
Leisha
Top Tier Pillow
Hmmm alrighty, just not let it get out of hand i guess =P which shouldn't happen so. x3
Oh, sure. ^________^
Anyway, so pummeling refreshes moves so long as you time the pummels right?
So no matter how slow the pummel is, just spamming the A button would count it as multi hit, right?
I thought Aerodrome was Tanman due to the avatar and thought Tedeth called Tanman a massive douchebag and I was like "Oh mah gawd, crossed teh line" but no it's fine and dandy now.
You know R4VENs response was really terribly worded and semi-irrelevent though.
And yeah I have no idea how anything works in this game. Someone still needs to teach me to SDI, I think I have DI right is it the C stick or the Control Stick?
You know R4VENs response was really terribly worded and semi-irrelevent though.
And yeah I have no idea how anything works in this game. Someone still needs to teach me to SDI, I think I have DI right is it the C stick or the Control Stick?
Hmm. How rude. You should know my posts better by now Splice! xD
Also, go into training mode and use a smart bomb on yourself and just keep smashing (repeatedly, holding it won't work) the control stick away from the explosion. I think that's SDI. I always get the two terms mixed up.
SummonerAU
Smash Lord
I'm not 100% certain on this but anyway...
Every time a move is used/hits (pretty sure it's only hit), the game adds it to a list. The list is 10 moves long. If the list doesn't have the move you used on it, the attack does 'x' damage and have 'y' knockback. If the list has one instance of the move you used on it, the move will only do 0.95x damage and 0.95 knockback (not real numbers, just explaining the idea). Say the list is full of bair (10 bairs have been used in a row), another bair would do significantly less damage and knockback. Now say, you do a fair instead. As the list is full of bair as you do the move, the move will be completely 'fresh' (x damage, y knockback). It will then be added to the list at position 1. This causes the bair on the list at position 10 to be bumped off the list. This is how stale moves work afaik.
Every time a move is used/hits (pretty sure it's only hit), the game adds it to a list. The list is 10 moves long. If the list doesn't have the move you used on it, the attack does 'x' damage and have 'y' knockback. If the list has one instance of the move you used on it, the move will only do 0.95x damage and 0.95 knockback (not real numbers, just explaining the idea). Say the list is full of bair (10 bairs have been used in a row), another bair would do significantly less damage and knockback. Now say, you do a fair instead. As the list is full of bair as you do the move, the move will be completely 'fresh' (x damage, y knockback). It will then be added to the list at position 1. This causes the bair on the list at position 10 to be bumped off the list. This is how stale moves work afaik.
tedeth
Smash Master
The list is 9 moves long and yeah it's only for moves that hit. Be aware though that you can refresh your moves by hitting anything including hittable objeccts on stages eg. the statues on castle siege.
SummonerAU
Smash Lord
Also, on pummels. I think it has something to do with IASA frameson the pummels. If you use a pummel in the IASA frames, it counts as a multi hitting move. If you don't, it counts as a string of single pummels.
Doing it in the IASA frames of the pummel would have the game read it as:
pummels(no stop)
Not doing it in the IASA frames will have the game read it as:
pummel, stop, pummel, stop, pummel, stop
This is just memory from a thread I think SuSa was working on a while back.
Doing it in the IASA frames of the pummel would have the game read it as:
pummels(no stop)
Not doing it in the IASA frames will have the game read it as:
pummel, stop, pummel, stop, pummel, stop
This is just memory from a thread I think SuSa was working on a while back.
Afropony
Smash Lord
If you don't know whether DI is with the C-Stick or the Control Stick then I don't think you have DI down
.I'll try to teach you some time if you want.
tedeth
Smash Master
Donno what it actually stands for but it refers to the ability to start a new attack before the ending animation is over basically.
Look at Luigi's fsmash straight and then look at it when you tilt it up for an example.
Look at Luigi's fsmash straight and then look at it when you tilt it up for an example.
SummonerAU
Smash Lord
Interruptible As Soon As
Nova
Banned via Warnings
That is a great help, I've been wondering that for ages (I knew it either refreshed or staled them, just wasn't sure which).
Anyway thanks everyone. I understand now; seemed like a couple of other people will as well.
And Ugh @ Luigi's U-tilted U-Smash. *Glares at Apollo*
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
basically it means the move has a certain frame period in which if you use/buffer another move it cancels into that move instead, example (these figures are made up) Ganons Usmash takes 50 frames, the hitbox comes out on 20 and goes away on 30, between 30 and 40 if you do another move it'll cancel straight into that move(including itself for megaspam), otherwise you'll have to wait till frame 50 to do anything, again those frame numbers are made up.
M
+9999999999
Sonic's side b stales his down b and vice versa. </3
Jupz
Smash Master
umm it does stale them.
what ted was saying if you use Attack A on say the YI fly guys, and attack B is at position 9 on the attack queue, then Attack A will go to spot 1 and attack B will get pushed out, therefore refreshing it.
basically, if you want to refresh move A, don't use it on hittable objects.
tedeth
Smash Master
Yeah hitting anything stales them but you can stale moves in order to push already staled moves off the queue. Should have explained that better maybe.
SummonerAU
Smash Lord
Does anyone know if Luigi's taunt adds to stale moves?
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
anyways some of you are quite clearly confused by some of the things said in this thread (looking at you aerodome, but its ok, its not your fault right?) so let me properly explain to you what move staleing is
move staleling is "When 2 zeldas are spamming side B at you, if one of them changes to sheik and then back to zelda and hits you with a side B, you'll die" now thats universal for every character and shame on you all for not knowing a basic fundimental skill.
also I'll explain sdi for you kids too, ok heres the short version
DI = changing your characters flight path and trajectory
SDI = Changing your characters location
lowat? let me explain in detail, when I get hit upwards, I hold left or right on the control stick, thats di, I also spam the cstick downwards really fast, thats also di, not sdi, as well as momentum cancelling.
now when you get hit by an attack, you go through 4 different types of hitstun, I wont go through it now but the first type only lasts for a few frames, but if you input any direction on the control stick during these first few frames, you'll do a tiny tiny little 'teleport' in that direction, the more inputs you make, the more little teleports, so if you get hit by the first part of snakes ftilt and your close enough to him, you can move through to the other side of him and the second hit of ftilt will miss you.
however this is only a few frames to work with so its impossible to do on human reaction, but if you get hit with a multihit move, like the last part of falcos jab where he spins like a ****ing ******, your constatly having your hitstun reset back into that first part where you can do the little teleports, and thats what SDI or smash direcional influence is.
now lets say I wanted to sdi up, the best way to do so is not to tap up rapidly but rather to press up, and then roll my stick from upleft to upright and back really fast (quater circle as its called), so I'm getting multiple up inputs, and the left and right are cancelling each other out, note that any input on the cstick made here is exactly the same as if you did it on the control stick, so if you quarter circle on both the control stick and C stick you'll go twice as fast allowing you to pretty much move freely though muiltihit moves as you please.
hope that helps kiddies, and remember
POWERTHIRST, ITS LIKE CRYSTAL METH IN A CAN
ITS LIKE CRYSTAL METH IN A CAN
POWERTHIST IS CRYSTAL METH.
move staleling is "When 2 zeldas are spamming side B at you, if one of them changes to sheik and then back to zelda and hits you with a side B, you'll die" now thats universal for every character and shame on you all for not knowing a basic fundimental skill.
also I'll explain sdi for you kids too, ok heres the short version
DI = changing your characters flight path and trajectory
SDI = Changing your characters location
lowat? let me explain in detail, when I get hit upwards, I hold left or right on the control stick, thats di, I also spam the cstick downwards really fast, thats also di, not sdi, as well as momentum cancelling.
now when you get hit by an attack, you go through 4 different types of hitstun, I wont go through it now but the first type only lasts for a few frames, but if you input any direction on the control stick during these first few frames, you'll do a tiny tiny little 'teleport' in that direction, the more inputs you make, the more little teleports, so if you get hit by the first part of snakes ftilt and your close enough to him, you can move through to the other side of him and the second hit of ftilt will miss you.
however this is only a few frames to work with so its impossible to do on human reaction, but if you get hit with a multihit move, like the last part of falcos jab where he spins like a ****ing ******, your constatly having your hitstun reset back into that first part where you can do the little teleports, and thats what SDI or smash direcional influence is.
now lets say I wanted to sdi up, the best way to do so is not to tap up rapidly but rather to press up, and then roll my stick from upleft to upright and back really fast (quater circle as its called), so I'm getting multiple up inputs, and the left and right are cancelling each other out, note that any input on the cstick made here is exactly the same as if you did it on the control stick, so if you quarter circle on both the control stick and C stick you'll go twice as fast allowing you to pretty much move freely though muiltihit moves as you please.
hope that helps kiddies, and remember
POWERTHIRST, ITS LIKE CRYSTAL METH IN A CAN
ITS LIKE CRYSTAL METH IN A CAN
POWERTHIST IS CRYSTAL METH.
Thanks summoner for refereshing my memory on what it stands for, and thanks Luke for explaining what I had assumed better so that now it makes sense. I just thought it was a move that, at the end of it, you could start it again without having to stop the move (like to use GaWs Dtilt twice you dont have to go out of the animation) this makes more sense.
Also with your last part luke the SDI quarter circle thing i didnt know and its good to know and thats pro.
Nova
Banned via Warnings
>_> 'kay now I geddit.
tedeth
Smash Master
Actually quarter circling the c stick does nothing. Every input with the c stick requires it to be returned to the centre before another input can be made. So, smash the c-stick, quarter circle the control stick.
kinda concerning that some of australia's top players dont know about staleness or sdi let alone implement them in their gameplay... i hope all you guys train hard over the summer and become awesome before i come back!