GaW vs Falco

[Timcanpy]

I lost in a tourny final to a falco using my main (Diddy), in the last week, so i was looking options in this matchup. Finally i decided use GaW vs Falco, the info of this matchup is very general, so all the tips will be received, all is helpful, like info about priority vs falco ilussion, % when u can get out of his chain grab, and any other information pls .

 

[A2ZOMG]

It's a pretty straightforward matchup for G&W.

Duck. He can't laser you while you do that. If he gets EXTREMELY predictable you could bucket lasers, but you don't really need to. While you duck, D-tilt obliterates ANY of his approaches, including the Phantasm. Basically G&W outcamps Falco in this matchup.

When you get the Falco frustrated, this is the time to start going agressive on him with aerial approaches. Once he's off stage, edgeguarding him is pretty easy. Your lingering hitboxes will eat his recovery alive, as pretty much any aerial he runs into will beat his Phantasm. If he misses a D-throw tech, you can D-smash him keep in mind.

 

[LouBega]

basically what a2zomg said. don't forget that falco can chain grab you till 30% or 40%. i don't remember which.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You can get out earlier with upB iirc.
Use bair a lot. It owns Falco

 

[LouBega]

probably...

 

[White Out]

i thought it was 50% on the chain grab

 

[Timcanpy]

thanks for the comments. Now, what stage to counterpick?

 

[zzz99]

usually if you want to get out of falco's chaingrab you could jump (or in this case b-up, although i don't know if that works, i haven't tried it) just don't try attacking...the attack doesn't come out fast enough and throw>attack

 

[DavieBoy]

I don't have the greatest experience with this match up but for your counterpick stage I would go with rainbow cruise, or Norfair.

 

[Neb]

Flat stages are best for evading his blaster shots. Maps with a variety of levels and platforms will give him versatility, and better zoning. So places like- FD, and Smashville are great.

 

[_Phloat_]

Kill his recovery. I would recommend Frigate Orpheon for this, the bad ledges can hurt him. Fair the crappy firefox! If you d-tilt his phantasm you can make his life difficult. I am pretty sure he cannot get through it if you position yourself right.

Avoid Jungle Japes like the plague. Although GaW isn't THAT bad there (pretty bad, but still, viable i guess) that is Falco's best level..

Find a friendly falco and learn little tricks and stuff, experience makes all the difference.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Don't avoid Jungle Japes, as G&W does quite well versus falco there (I believe there is a thread in the Falco section on who not to bring to JJ, and G&W is one), and I can vouch on my personal experiences that G&W can handle that stage quite well versus Falco. That isn't to say CP it, but don't ban it unless you personally can't play it.

Despite G&W being able to get out via the UpB, Falco can SH a Dair and the air push from the upB will carry him with you and you will get hit. Well, I haven't tried it, but an angled upB might work. Chef can work well on edgeguarding his Phantasm, but I prefer the Dtilt. Also watch out for his reflector, as it has pretty good range and can't be ducked under.

 

[Hylian]

Ugh, so much wrong information :/.

1. Avoid Jungle Japes. GW has a hard time killing falco here and If falco grabs you at 0% you die. It is one of GW's worst stages and it's easily Falco's best stage.

2. Falco can CG GW till 35% and then dair. That's close to 50%. If you do a get-up attack right away, he can just SH and do another dair and then jump and bair and now your looking at 75%+.

3. Lasers are hard to deal with. If you are behind in damage, what exactly does crouching get you? Nothing. Falco has great stage control and bucketing his lasers doesn't really do much. Good falcos will punish you for it.

4. You want to stay in the air for this match-up. Approach from above. If you get a grab off, Uthrow and Uair spam. Try to catch falco out of his phantasm with dtilt and smashes. Make sure you get good edgeguards on falco as well.

Take falco to stages like RC,Corneria,Frigate,Delphino...

 

[K 2]

Umm...I'm not sure about this, but can you bucket fox/falco's up b? like suck up the fire or something?

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Ignore Hylian. He doesn't even play G&W anymore. All it is now is ZSS
But JJ isn't one of G&W's worst stages, I don't even care if you personally think that. (Don't cp it, though)
All the rest is right.

edit:

NONONO
You can't K 2. Sheeeeesh >___>

 

[Hylian]

Ignore Hylian. He doesn't even play G&W anymore. All it is now is ZSS
But JJ isn't one of G&W's worst stages, I don't even care if you personally think that. (Don't cp it, though)
All the rest is right.

edit:

NONONO
You can't K 2. Sheeeeesh >___>

How exactly is it not one of his worst stages?

His amazing recovery and edguarding are brought down to every other characters level on this stage. People live really long on this stage as it is huge(And that means they have more chances to kill you...and GW is the second lightest character so that is BAD. You want to kill your opponents as quickly as possibile). You can't gimp on this stage at all really. Characters can run away from you pretty easily as well.

Comparing this to all the other legal stages it's pretty obvious that this is one of his worst stages. GW doesn't even have a BAD stage to be honest, this one is just worse then the rest. It takes away many of the basic stat advantages GW has vs most characters.

I know what I'm talking about thanks .

Oh, and this is one of my favorite stages to play on. I'm not biased at all.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

When it comes down to it, G&W still does just fine on the stage. Sure he dies sooner than most, but the ceiling will allow him to live longer than most, and his Fsmash and Fair still kill low. I'm not going to argue the point though, since you seem so sure of yourself, and arguing people like that is just stupid, which is why I haven't responded to Raphael. Not to be harsh to you, Hylian, I'm just not in the mood >____>

When it comes down to G&W's worst stage, it's not an actual stage. It's dependent on what character you are playing against and how often you play on it/how you play on it.

 

[Hylian]

When it comes down to it, G&W still does just fine on the stage. Sure he dies sooner than most, but the ceiling will allow him to live longer than most, and his Fsmash and Fair still kill low. I'm not going to argue the point though, since you seem so sure of yourself, and arguing people like that is just stupid, which is why I haven't responded to Raphael. Not to be harsh to you, Hylian, I'm just not in the mood >____>

When it comes down to G&W's worst stage, it's not an actual stage. It's dependent on what character you are playing against and how often you play on it/how you play on it.

Except your not giving me any reason for your beliefs... I have ton's of experience on that stage against good players(How often do you get to play a Falco as good as Sethlon?).

You advised people not to ban it against Falco. I think that is horribily wrong and really bad advice. I like to look out for the community . I also posted reasons why it is a bad stage for GW and your retort was: "GW does just fine on JJ"...

Seriously?

I'm confident in my knowledge of this game and how well my main character does on it's stages. All of them.

I'm sorry if you don't feel like arguing, but then why even post your opinion if your not going to defend it. Maybe think about what I said and realize that many of GW's fundamentals are ruptured on this stage.

My advice: Stay away from JJ's. Especially against Falco.

If you have any reason that GW does well on JJ's compared to the majority of other stages in this game please post it. I've already thought about and discussed this in depth with good players. I also have a ton of firsthand experience against several different high level players on this stage. Where are your credientials?

 

[Mr. Escalator]

My credentials are that I don't get three stocked by dojo! :O
ololol im 2gud

 

[Hylian]

My credentials are that I don't get three stocked by dojo! :O
ololol im 2gud

Dojo has never 3 stocked my GW and I am 2-2 with him in tourament.

...

 

[slikvik]

brinstar works pretty well. beat chillins falco there...shrug. i really like the stage. anyone suggesting jungle japes...wow

 

[Mr. Escalator]

lol, I must of misread the topic then. So it was just Santi then?
But my reply, though being obnoxious, is just me not going to argue. I know I should, but I'm sick, in a bad mood, and not going to argue when you're just going to pull the "I play Sethlon and am a better player than you and any falco you play falls short of the ones I play" card, like you already did. It's just not in my interests to try to argue what I think when you have a trump card like that.

So people can take whatever they want from this thread. It's not like it's helping the community either way since this thread will drift into obscurity etc etc

edit: also to above: I didn't suggest picking Jungle Japes, learn to read.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Falco is SCARY on Jungle Japes. I agree with Hylian on that one.

Hylian, when you crouch, you make Falco approach you, and he has ZERO reliable options around the D-tilt. His only safe option from there is going way above you or behind you, which is pretty silly for him.

The ROB forums have also promoted OUTCAMPING Falco. What they do instead is camp at the ledge. Don't believe me? Go look at Overswarm's ROB guide.

Jungle Japes is also a problem because it helps him laser you when you're on either far side of the stage.

 

[Hylian]

Falco is SCARY on Jungle Japes. I agree with Hylian on that one.

Hylian, when you crouch, you make Falco approach you, and he has ZERO reliable options around the D-tilt. His only safe option from there is going way above you or behind you, which is pretty silly for him.

The ROB forums have also promoted OUTCAMPING Falco. What they do instead is camp at the ledge. Don't believe me? Go look at Overswarm's ROB guide.

Jungle Japes is also a problem because it helps him laser you when you're on either far side of the stage.

Right, because they can't just run up and grab you...

 

[ColinJF]

Can't Falco hit ducking Game & Watch anyway by using the laser near to the ground when falling from a jump?

 

[Valdens]

I have experience against Falco vs both Jem and SK92, two of the best Falcos.

You can escape his CG at around 15-20% with up-b.

The ENTIRE match, you can do nothing but bair. Do not try to shield punish because Falco is the master as shield pressure in this game. He has no reliable option for beating bair so as long as you're using that he can't do much.

In my experience, vs a falco that doesn't tech the dthrow right, dthrow -> dsmash is INVALUABLE in this matchup due to the angle Falco is sent + his recovery. Abuse it if at all possible.

and as said before, CROUCH HIS LASERS.

 

[Hylian]

I have experience against Falco vs both Jem and SK92, two of the best Falcos.

You can escape his CG at around 15-20% with up-b.

The ENTIRE match, you can do nothing but bair. Do not try to shield punish because Falco is the master as shield pressure in this game. He has no reliable option for beating bair so as long as you're using that he can't do much.

In my experience, vs a falco that doesn't tech the dthrow right, dthrow -> dsmash is INVALUABLE in this matchup due to the angle Falco is sent + his recovery. Abuse it if at all possible.

and as said before, CROUCH HIS LASERS.

This is absolutly horribile advice. Everyone should of stopped reading when he said you can up-B out at 15%-20% because that simply ISN'T true.

I don't even want to reply to this because the advice is so bad :/.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Right, because they can't just run up and grab you...

Falco's grab range is terrible and Falco isn't a fast runner either lol. Like seriously, Fox is better at getting grabs than Falco but he still gets RAAAAAAPED by the D-tilt. <<

Sure I guess he could go for a dashing powershieldgrab, but that is actually hard to do. Otherwise Falco trying to grab you when you have the option of D-tilting is silly 96% of the time, and it's even rarer for someone to do a normal shieldgrab on G&W's D-tilt.

 

[cutter]

Just to let you guys know, G&W is completely powerless to break out of the chaingrab until ~35% when it's executed perfectly. Then Falco gets a free Usmash or Dair after that.

Also Valdens, Falco's lasers and shine have transcendental priority and override any attack including Bair. Obviously Falco's shine outranges Bair but if you don't trip from it, you can actually punish Falco afterwards due to the almost non-existant hitstun on the attack.

 

[_Phloat_]

If he dash attacks your shield, watch for a contact DACUS. They seem to come out deceivingly late.

 

[Valdens]

Hylian, IN TOURNAMENT, I escaped from Jem's (a notable Falco, one of the best on the WC) dthrow CONSISTENTLY after the third or so throw every time with up-b. It doesn't involve timing, it's mashing the b-button while holding up. I am confident that that's true.

This is not taking into account down air, of course.

and cutter, naturally lasers will beat bair, but other than spamming you with them and running he lacks any viable approach out of them that you aren't able to punish.

 

[Jamnt0ast]

This is absolutly horribile advice. Everyone should of stopped reading when he said you can up-B out at 15%-20% because that simply ISN'T true.

I don't even want to reply to this because the advice is so bad :/.

YOU sir are ********. Just because you might post on smashboards more than valdens does NOT make you the surpreme ruler of G&W. Did you not hear that he said JEM AND SK92!?

 

[DMG]

I don't think G&W can escape that early from Falco's CG. Even if you used good DI and Upb/DJ, I doubt he can escape that early...

 

[LouBega]

yeah, i've never been able to upb out of it until past 35, or the end of the stage. or i get daired.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

He can't. While I think Hylian is an annoying poster, he isn't wrong about the CG <_____>

 

[DMG]

^^^ Lol Esca everyone is an annoying poster

But yeah, Hylian is right.

 

[Hylian]

Hylian, IN TOURNAMENT, I escaped from Jem's (a notable Falco, one of the best on the WC) dthrow CONSISTENTLY after the third or so throw every time with up-b. It doesn't involve timing, it's mashing the b-button while holding up. I am confident that that's true.

This is not taking into account down air, of course.

and cutter, naturally lasers will beat bair, but other than spamming you with them and running he lacks any viable approach out of them that you aren't able to punish.

I'm sorry, but if you are breaking out of his CG's like that then Jem needs to learn how to CG.

It is FACT that GW can NOT break out of Falco's CG in any way until 35% if the Falco is CGing correctly. Falco is one of my mains and I am positive of this. I'm sorry your opponents don't know how to CG.

Also, spamming bair will get you no where in this match-up.

YOU sir are ********. Just because you might post on smashboards more than valdens does NOT make you the surpreme ruler of G&W. Did you not hear that he said JEM AND SK92!?

I lol'ed hard at this.

If people think I'm annoying then I will gladly just leave the GW boards and not post any advice.

 

[chckn]

YOU sir are ********. Just because you might post on smashboards more than valdens does NOT make you the surpreme ruler of G&W. Did you not hear that he said JEM AND SK92!?

No, not because he posts more on smashboards, because he posts relevantly and contributes information that matters, not just **** like almost everyone else.

 

[J4pu]

My credentials are that I don't get three stocked by dojo! :O
ololol im 2gud

ouch, low blow.

I'm sorry, but if you are breaking out of his CG's like that then Jem needs to learn how to CG.

It is FACT that GW can NOT break out of Falco's CG in any way until 35% if the Falco is CGing correctly. Falco is one of my mains and I am positive of this. I'm sorry your opponents don't know how to CG.

Also, spamming bair will get you no where in this match-up.

I lol'ed hard at this.

If people think I'm annoying then I will gladly just leave the GW boards and not post any advice.

You sir are not allowed to say "my main" anymore, you have to say my random box chooses this character for me sometimes.

 

[Valdens]

spamming bair will get you no where

This is quite possibly the funniest thing I've ever managed to pull out of context.