Q&A Ganon's Cauldron of Questions (Ganon Q/A Thread)

[Ray_Kalm]

I think ZSS is a fair matchup for Ganon, personally. She's really light and Ganon does decently hitting her out of her Down-B in juggle and edgeguard situations. While her midrange options are very good, she has to fundamentally make a punishable guess to get momentum. Read the grab or DA, avoid getting gimped, and DI towards her if you sense an Up-B juggle.

Her control zone is also limited, and the area she could control isn't difficult to deal with.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I think ZSS is a fair matchup for Ganon, personally. She's really light and Ganon does decently hitting her out of her Down-B in juggle and edgeguard situations. While her midrange options are very good, she has to fundamentally make a punishable guess to get momentum. Read the grab or DA, avoid getting gimped, and DI towards her if you sense an Up-B juggle.

Zero Suit only feels truly awful if she's willing to try to time you out. Otherwise she's annoying but punishable, as she's both light and a fastfaller, and you can kill her really quickly should you get in. If she straight up refuses to approach I do have trouble getting in. Maybe there's something different I could do, but I have a heck of a time trying to catch her if she's playing dedicated keepaway.

 

[jmanup85]

That's the thing with this game I feel, what options do you have to approach others and such? You can't even touch the opponents shield in this game or its a punish and in most cases they reset back to a position where you need to approach but just can't. Lately I feel stuck because Ganon just has to approach eventually and if the other player is patient enough then it just seems much harder. I don't blame the character (alot) as much as I do the game mechanics. I believe this game is a bit too skewed towards defense. What makes it worse is that our defensive options are such crap that it borderlines on insane. At least that's what I've been feeling these past few days. Hopefully I can be proven wrong, we'll see.

 

[A2ZOMG]

That's the thing with this game I feel, what options do you have to approach others and such? You can't even touch the opponents shield in this game or its a punish and in most cases they reset back to a position where you need to approach but just can't. Lately I feel stuck because Ganon just has to approach eventually and if the other player is patient enough then it just seems much harder. I don't blame the character (alot) as much as I do the game mechanics. I believe this game is a bit too skewed towards defense. What makes it worse is that our defensive options are such crap that it borderlines on insane. At least that's what I've been feeling these past few days. Hopefully I can be proven wrong, we'll see.

Think this way. Your opponent HAS to block most of the time when you successfully reach DA range. It's not a bad thing when you start forcing people to shield, because then they limit their mobility and become more predictable, leaving themselves open to you either spacing your aerials, crossover DA, or D-tilt at your leisure. And if they insist on sitting still, you can get grabs and Flame Choke, which are very rewarding.

Really if your opponent is shielding all the time, that is exactly what you want because that's when you have control over them.

The main matchups where things get extremely annoying are when your opponent has both a strong camping projectile and a quick F-air, so Sheik and Luigi for instance are definitely really hard to approach for Ganon.

 

[jmanup85]

Think this way. Your opponent HAS to block most of the time when you successfully reach DA range. It's not a bad thing when you start forcing people to shield, because then they limit their mobility and become more predictable, leaving themselves open to you either spacing your aerials, crossover DA, or D-tilt at your leisure. And if they insist on sitting still, you can get grabs and Flame Choke, which are very rewarding.

Really if your opponent is shielding all the time, that is exactly what you want because that's when you have control over them.

The main matchups where things get extremely annoying are when your opponent has both a strong camping projectile and a quick F-air, so Sheik and Luigi for instance are definitely really hard to approach for Ganon.

Players with good reaction aren't going to let Ganon slowly run up and grab with his slow run speed consistently. You can mix it up with empty movement and whatnot but in the end you have to approach and most good players know that if you attack the shield, it's a grab or a punish with a combo if they can pull it off. Idk I'm just frustrated at this game right now.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Players with good reaction aren't going to let Ganon slowly run up and grab with his slow run speed consistently. You can mix it up with empty movement and whatnot but in the end you have to approach and most good players know that if you attack the shield, it's a grab or a punish with a combo if they can pull it off. Idk I'm just frustrated at this game right now.

That's why you have crossover DA and U-smash.

 

[Dark Phazon]

That's why you have crossover DA and U-smash.

What is crossover DA?

 

[jmanup85]

What is crossover DA?

Crossover Dash Attack. And it works for sure and so do Usmash. I just wish they fixed his grab range

 

[Dark Phazon]

Crossover Dash Attack. And it works for sure and so do Usmash. I just wish they fixed his grab range

How do you do it?

 

[HeavyLobster]

How do you do it?

Run up right next to your opponent and Dash Attack so you wind up behind them.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Run up right next to your opponent and Dash Attack so you wind up behind them.

So basicly you go through their shield if they are shielding so they cant or its harder for them to punish?
Also Ganon's DA has super armour?

 

[jmanup85]

So basicly you go through their shield if they are shielding so they cant or its harder for them to punish?
Also Ganon's DA has super armour?

For some characters it is harder to punish and no it does not have super armor. It's a good approach option as A2 said nut you shouldn't overly rely on it and mix it up with empty movement and grabs to keep them honest and keep them guessing. I like Ganon's shield pressure simply because of Gerudo (which is side b just in case you don't know). He reminds me of a grappler in other types of fighting games, just that his actual grab range sucks.

 

[A2ZOMG]

So basicly you go through their shield if they are shielding so they cant or its harder for them to punish?
Also Ganon's DA has super armour?

No SA frames. And yeah if you do it right you basically end up a mile away from your opponent. Maybe if someone like Falcon or Sonic reacts perfectly they can punish it, but most of the time crossover DA is pretty safe.

 

[Dark Phazon]

No SA frames. And yeah if you do it right you basically end up a mile away from your opponent. Maybe if someone like Falcon or Sonic reacts perfectly they can punish it, but most of the time crossover DA is pretty safe.

Isnt Ganons DA Sweetspot is point black too right?

Also...reduced landing lag on FAir or DAir would be very damn huge buff
But atm imo nothing would be bigger than a grab range buff....its litreally point blank range....so awful...

 

[Sykkamorre]

Is there a compiled list of all changes to the dorf from each update anywhere?

 

[Poxnixles]

Who are some good secondaries to play for Ganon mains?

 

[Sykkamorre]

Who are some good secondaries to play for Ganon mains?

Personally, I believe that mega man / lucario are good secondaries.

 

[Z1GMA]

Personally, I believe that mega man / lucario are good secondaries.

Yeah, Lucario for sure. He does really well Vs Sheik and other "ticklers" that Ganon doesn't like.

 

[Sykkamorre]

There really is something satisfying about eating one of those early combo strings and just sitting there thinking "Yes...YES! Make me stronger, you foolish fool! Muahahahaha!"

 

[A2ZOMG]

Lucario I don't think does very well against Rosalina. Then again she kinda beats a lot of characters.

I personally secondary Doc. One of the big things Doc has that Ganon doesn't is a devastatingly threatening close range game due to his 3 frame reversal, so he's generally speaking really strong against rushdown. His Jab cancels into Up-B on lightweight floaty characters also come in handy.

 

[Z1GMA]

There really is something satisfying about eating one of those early combo strings and just sitting there thinking "Yes...YES! Make me stronger, you foolish fool! Muahahahaha!"

Dude, I pretty much never get kills unless I'm at atleast 50%> with Lucario.
I can sometimes take my opponent to high %s w/o even taking damage myself, but then I sorta need to get damaged to finally kill them. It's pretty hilarious.

 

[Ffamran]

I'm going to assume you all know the stuff this guy talks about for Ganondorf's Wizard's Foot, right? Excuse the poor quality; link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwxbIRQ2ApE.

Edit: Whoa. You can do that through the platform? Wizard's Foot through the platform.

 

[Blobface]

@ Vermanubis how do you ledge trump so quickly? Whenever I try to trump the ledge, it's either too slow or I fastfall right past it.

 

[Blobface]

(Pardon the Double Post. This can be merged later)
Also, I just looked back at some of the hitbox videos for Ganon and it seems that his hitboxes were enlarged pretty dramatically, especially on U-smash, Jab, F-tilt, and D-smash. Anyone else notice this?

 

[Vermanubis]

@ Vermanubis how do you ledge trump so quickly? Whenever I try to trump the ledge, it's either too slow or I fastfall right past it.

It just takes a big of getting used to. It's a carry-over from the Brawl days. I just make sure I'm standing at the very tip of the ledge, then do a quick forward > quarter circle towards the stage motion.

 

[jmanup85]

It just takes a big of getting used to. It's a carry-over from the Brawl days. I just make sure I'm standing at the very tip of the ledge, then do a quick forward > quarter circle towards the stage motion.

That's exactly how I do it as well. After you learn that it gets super easy to learn it while you're running, the instant his body leans forward off the stage I do the quarter circle toward the stage. It helps that his running speed is slow so you can practice it much easier. Learning to ledge trump with Ganon and Marth puts you in position to do some crazy things.

 

[josebro]

3 questions...

1) Which move is better for breaking out of combos, nair or Uair? I know Uair comes out like one frame faster but I've heard people say nair is better

2) I'm confused about the vectoring/DI thing. Is DI still a thing for smash 4? If so, does throwing out an aerial as soon as hit stun is over help slow your momentum? Which aerial is best for this?

3) When you clash moves with your opponent on the ground, what do you guys usually do in response? Jab?

Thanks guys!

 

[Sykkamorre]

Vectoring works on horizontal KB, DI works for vertical knockback.

 

[Poxnixles]

What does Dark Dive have over Fists?

 

[Blobface]

What does Dark Dive have over Fists?

It's a grab and it starts up 2 frames faster.

That's it. It even actually goes slightly farther because you have a few more frames to build up momentum.

 

[A2ZOMG]

What does Dark Dive have over Fists?

It's slightly better in the Mac and DDD matchup given grabs ignore armor, which makes Dark Dive actually useful for edgeguarding them (Mac gets a crapton of armor on Guard Breaker). There's also rare situations where the grab on Dark Dive can let you recover really deep, though I wouldn't count on it.

But in all seriousness Dark Fists is way too good for making people afraid of pressuring Ganon both offstage and rushing him down.

 

[Uncle Honey]

I'm trying to recover using Warlock Drop kick, down b custom 2. If Ganon is facing away from the stage, how do I change the direction of his down b? I can do it with all other characters (like Sheik or ZSS) but Ganon for some reason.

 

[Blobface]

I'm trying to recover using Warlock Drop kick, down b custom 2. If Ganon is facing away from the stage, how do I change the direction of his down b? I can do it with all other characters (like Sheik or ZSS) but Ganon for some reason.

You can't unfortunately.

B-reversible Wizard's Dropkick would turn Ganondorf into an airplane.

 

[WwwWario]

Am I the only one who wishes Ganon's Up B was more powerful? I mean, he has the punch at the end which is really good, but the grab itself is horrible knockback-wise. It does 11 damage which is alright, but the knockback is just.... ugh. In the midle of FD, most characters need like 200+ damage in order to kill. It's such a cool move; electroshocking with one arm before making them explode. To me, cooler than Falcon's Falcon Dive. But the fact that it's so weak makes me sad.

 

[Jerbear9]

Personally, I believe that mega man / lucario are good secondaries.

i used to be a lucario secondary but his start up frames for most of his moves are too long for me to consider him that good. i might whip him back out against a sheik but i've found ROB better all around. since he has almost the polar opposite playstyle as dorf the two of them can handle just about everyone. lot of fun and annoying stuff you can do with the gyro, mix up with laser, better air game, a reflector, better grab combo, and you don't need 30-50% dam to kill. he has his own faults but i think he's a few spots higher than lucario in an accurate ranking.

 

[WorstSSBPlayerInTheWorld]

How do you avoid getting juggled

 

[Tarry]

How do you avoid getting juggled

By what exactly?

 

[Sykkamorre]

How do you avoid getting juggled

Clever use of airdodge and fast fall.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Avoiding getting juggled really depends on what your opponent is going to do. If they're overaggressive, you can teach them to be more careful with aerial Wizkick and N-air sometimes. Going for a ledge reset is good sometimes. Try your best to save your jump and airdodge until you know they are going to commit.

 

[DLA]

I keep losing to ZSS's. Is her Dthrow -> Uair -> Uair -> up B guaranteed on us? It kills at like 60% and it's absolutely ****ing obnoxious. All she has to do is shoot an uncharged paralyzer at us and she can either grab us for shielding it, grab us for rolling after shielding it, grab us for spot dodging, or watch us jump and combo us with Uair into Up B anyways.

And her down B is ridiculous too; it's invincible, it spikes, it ground pounds, it's safe on Ganon's shield, and it's a kill move. We can't juggle her because instead of landing, she can instantly, invincibly hop 30 feet across the stage where we can't reach her landing.

Anyone have advice for dealing with these two horrible game design decisions?