Ganonic Grimoire (Social) - Commiseration and Hierarchy

[Clai]

I still think Ganon deserves his own tier mainly because it's really common tourney characters like D3, Falco and MK that keep him from placing well mostly, whereas Falcon can hold his own a bit better against characters like that, especially Falco.

I think by and large, Falcon probably has a harder time with more characters, but none give him so hard a time as such common characters like the ones I mentioned do Ganon. Ganon's speed is so often overlooked as one of his worst traits (his running speed; not frame speed!). With speed like Falcons, he can close the gaps that cripple Ganon.

MK and IC's murder Falcon (don't give me Ally bullcrap, it's not like the opponents have any idea what they were doing anyway). Falcon has even less of a fan-base than Ganon does, people can at least see what Ganon can do and make sure they don't let Ganon do anything, but Falcon can be zoned/trapped just as effectively as Ganon and he lack's the priority to do anything once he's put in a bad spot.

Ganondorf can at least do something with momentum, Falcon can run away, yeah, but he has no comeback potential whatsoever and finding ways to kill are immensely difficult. If Falcon wants to says that he's better than Ganon in the future (like Tier list V7), he needs the high-profile victories that says so.

 

[Vermanubis]

Oh, they do, no doubt. I'm saying more that they don't shut him down quite as hard as they do Ganon. They ultimately contrast two egregious problems: Ganon's is the fact that if the opponent wants to play keep away, Ganon is helpless. Falcon's is that he can't kill reliably. It's a matter of circumstance to me. Personally, I think Jigglypuff is second worst, with Falcon third and Zelda fourth.

 

[stingers]

ive thought falcons the worst character since like...forever 8]
ganon <3

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Oh, they do, no doubt. I'm saying more that they don't shut him down quite as hard as they do Ganon. They ultimately contrast two egregious problems: Ganon's is the fact that if the opponent wants to play keep away, Ganon is helpless. Falcon's is that he can't kill reliably. It's a matter of circumstance to me. Personally, I think Jigglypuff is second worst, with Falcon third and Zelda fourth.

We're better than captain falcon.

 

[Fuujin]

We're better than captain falcon.

Not sure why people think Jigglypuff is debatable for any of the last 3 spots on the tier list :/.
Not sure why people think Zelda > Falcon/Jigglypuff either.

 

[Noobicidal]

Zelda and Ganon are garbage, and Puff is easily the best low-tier character.

Spoiler

I'm not even joking.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

^^ Agreed.

besides yoshi.

who's going to MT

 

[Noobicidal]

besides yoshi.

No.

who's going to MT

What the **** is in Montana?

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Yoshi is.
lol

 

[Noobicidal]

Yoshi is.
lol

That's just weird.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Sometimes.

but most of the time he's wining LT's cause he's broken

and being put into Mid tiers

 

[Heartstring]

i cant see yoshi going into mid tier, im sorry. i mean sadly for me ike is definetely mid tier...low mid tier, but still mid tier
as for best low tier, its obviously ganon

 

[the king of murder]

Also we've moved Ganon up to top of mid tier.
We've done this to appease the tournament results only jockeys who will surely get peeved at the next tier list not being a copy of Ripple's/John#'s data (it will totally make up for it though)

I still believe Ganondorf belongs in his epic Ganon-tier for himself despite Fonz performence.Though it seems like we have better results than Falcon and Jiggs(I'm looking at you Noob), however good results don't make you a better character.

 

[Noobicidal]

I'm looking at you Noob

Jiggs has had the lowest tournament representation since 2008.

I'm just saying.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Which is why you guys should stop hating on the new guy.
Make him go main ICs and you lose one of your much needed mains.
*cough*

 

[fonzi21]

I still think Ganon deserves his own tier mainly because it's really common tourney characters like D3, Falco and MK that keep him from placing well mostly, whereas Falcon can hold his own a bit better against characters like that, especially Falco.

Ganon's speed is so often overlooked as one of his worst traits (his running speed; not frame speed!). With speed like Falcons, he can close the gaps that cripple Ganon.

I agree D3 is lame, but C.Falcon cannot do better against Falco. Ganon's run speed isn't that horrible, and you shouldn't be running around against a falco just walk......Ganon is heavy, Falco's weakness is he can't kill and his kill options are very predictable and obvious. Let him laser you to 900% who cares, the laser doesn't kill. BAD FALCOS LASER, Good Falco's Walk and Jab. If a Falco is spamming Laser he is bad. Laser's are easily PS'ed and punished. Jab cannot be punished. and the chain grab to spike doesn't kill....ever, no he can't gimp you afterwards, no he doesn't get a follow-up after the spike you just live. Ganon loses against falco that's for sure, but C.Falcon doesn't do better.

Metaknight is different, Falcon doesn't do any better nor worse then Ganon does in that MU.

Damnit I started posting again ><, this was my last one lol.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Jiggs has had the lowest tournament representation since 2008.

I'm just saying.

And i've made all the money

 

[Ripple]

Jiggs has had the lowest tournament representation since 2008.

I'm just saying.

this isn't true. it's falcon

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah, falcon.

Also Clai was so legit meeting you. PIRATE SHIP!

 

[TP]

And i've made all the money

At one point, back when Ankoku was doing the character rankings, I was responsible for over half of Ganon's points. This was before all these new kids came along and I put a mask on to protect my identity.

 

[Clai]

Yeah, falcon.

Also Clai was so legit meeting you. PIRATE SHIP!

Pirate Ship texture. SOMEBODY MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!!!

Is it bad that I can beat your high-tier characters alright but barely escape Ganon dittos? I swear Ganon gives me such a hard time, I was really sweating it out there. Real intense, SDirt, and a pleasure that you were part of the tournament.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I almost threw up.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Yummy jummy

 

[Vermanubis]

I agree D3 is lame, but C.Falcon cannot do better against Falco. Ganon's run speed isn't that horrible, and you shouldn't be running around against a falco just walk......Ganon is heavy, Falco's weakness is he can't kill and his kill options are very predictable and obvious. Let him laser you to 900% who cares, the laser doesn't kill. BAD FALCOS LASER, Good Falco's Walk and Jab. If a Falco is spamming Laser he is bad. Laser's are easily PS'ed and punished. Jab cannot be punished. and the chain grab to spike doesn't kill....ever, no he can't gimp you afterwards, no he doesn't get a follow-up after the spike you just live. Ganon loses against falco that's for sure, but C.Falcon doesn't do better.

Metaknight is different, Falcon doesn't do any better nor worse then Ganon does in that MU.

Damnit I started posting again ><, this was my last one lol.

I disagree. Falcon has almost none of the problems that Ganon faces in the Falco MU. His run speed does kill him, because that means he can't close gaps without taking enormous risks. Falco creates gaps effortlessly. As for the spike, it depends on the Falco.

When it comes to running, you obviously don't run against lasers, but I mean for punishing. Falco puts Ganon at a stalemate worse than anyone because of his speed. Stay far away? Lasers all day. Get close? Jab or phantasm. Punishment options on Ganon's end are highly circumstantial and based almost entirely on clutch timing and reads. Falcon can pressure Falco to move around more and isn't put at such a nasty stalemate.

As for MK, I agree there. Overall though, I just think Falcon does better than Ganon. His terrible MUs aren't nearly as terrible as Ganon's and his "good" MUs aren't quite as good as Ganon's can <potentially> be.

 

[Heartstring]

I disagree. Falcon has almost none of the problems that Ganon faces in the Falco MU. His run speed does kill him, because that means he can't close gaps without taking enormous risks. Falco creates gaps effortlessly. As for the spike, it depends on the Falco.

When it comes to running, you obviously don't run against lasers, but I mean for punishing. Falco puts Ganon at a stalemate worse than anyone because of his speed. Stay far away? Lasers all day. Get close? Jab or phantasm. Punishment options on Ganon's end are highly circumstantial and based almost entirely on clutch timing and reads. Falcon can pressure Falco to move around more and isn't put at such a nasty stalemate.

As for MK, I agree there. Overall though, I just think Falcon does better than Ganon. His terrible MUs aren't nearly as terrible as Ganon's and his "good" MUs aren't quite as good as Ganon's can <potentially> be.

well imo, both are ****ty, but falcon will fare better against those who make less mistakes. ganon relies heavily on a person making a mistake to land a hit

also the shipdeck looks off in that image. not great

 

[Mr. game and watch]

I think ganon should be banned. He obviously can win tourneys.
He's too strong.

 

[smashkng]

Ganon's kill power helps him more in actual practice than Falcon's speed. The opponent doesn't have to make quite as many misstakes in order for Ganon to take off a stock. Ganon has much more kill power than Falcon and Ganon can rack up much more damage than Falcon once Ganon lands a move. Unless Falcon lands a Knee or something, which is extremely hard to do at high level play, he can't reliably kill below 100% while Ganon has tons of moves that can do that. Because I that, I believe Ganon is better at abusing the lack of MU knowledge than Falcon is.

As long as people still aren't familiar with Ganon, he's a bigger tournament threat than Falcon IMO.

 

[Makke]

....................

 

[M@v]

GGs at cot5 Clai. Sorry for going mk in bracket, but he was the one I was doing the best with that day.

The Zelda vs ganon mm was one of my favorite sets of the weekend though :D

 

[Heartstring]

these days ganon/falcon is sorta like a stage discussion. regardless of whats said, people are going to stick to their own opinion ¬_¬

 

[Mr. game and watch]

^ true that.
Same with religion and politics.

Shouldn't ganoncide count as a win if you're both on your last life?
Even if ganon technacly dies like a frame first?

 

[Heartstring]

that rule got removed for some reason
i dunno why, it was probably one of the most agreeable rules we had

 

[Mr. game and watch]

I think it should count.
You input the last move, cause the end of the match, and take your opponet with you.
I use ganoncide on people edge guarding, just so they're scared to do it more and I can recover :3

 

[Bloodynite]

felt like posting this

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Always backin' up Verm.

 

[Noobicidal]

that rule got removed for some reason
i dunno why, it was probably one of the most agreeable rules we had

The issue is that the game's outcome after a Ganoncide is inconsistent unlike Bowser's or Kirby's, and the BBR didn't want to create a rule that picks favorites, regardless of Ganon's position on the tier list, or the general consensus between TOs and players that a last stock Ganoncide ends in a win.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=12954132

 

[Bloodynite]

baahahahah that was from pound

 

[PK-ow!]

Frikin internet. No wifi for me for a while.

Fonz' placing fills me with manly tears. And an icy depth of... something caring. (No, legitimately... for me 'chilling' has always been a more natural metonymy for the so-called warm feelings.)

Ganon boards knows how to srs, and how to lul, and we even have that degree in theodicy from when it was more practical than theorizing. But now, now we can put that degree under the counter, and say "Gentlemen, gentlemen... we will have Brawl. The Ganon has Brawled, and won. This is our Brawl." And thanks to Fonz.
(sorry, I spent my top tier prose elsewhere today. I'm only Human. I'll make it up to you.)

 

[Makke]

.................