Ganon Techs, Skills, Frame Data, and Hitboxes

[Big O]

Yeah buffering won't get you a perfect short hop AC Bair or Uair but buffering is the only way you can short hop AC Dair.

 

[Z1GMA]

WP's hitbox only lasts 2 frames O_o
Ironicly enough, it seems to always hit the opponent in their landing lag.

 

[TP]

I HAVE A QUESTION!

When does the wind of the Utilt first "hit" the opponent? The easiest way to test would probably be to have Marth stand there and use counter, since it gets triggered by the wind.

Also, as others have said, aerial choke advantage data would be nice.

 

[thexsunrosered]

WP's hitbox only lasts 2 frames O_o
Ironicly enough, it seems to always hit the opponent in their landing lag.

hey zig, i have a video of me and Zhouten teaming against TP and Ijosh and having one of them get Fsmashed into my Utilt and falling into the hitbox just like on your video, do you want to see it =]

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hey Big O.

I was fooling around and doing random trix. You can autocancel a buffered SHFFB-air. I think this looks cool, especially if you get down reverse buffering, which opens up a lot of baiting possibilities.

What's the frame data on that?

 

[Z1GMA]

hey zig, i have a video of me and Zhouten teaming against TP and Ijosh and having one of them get Fsmashed into my Utilt and falling into the hitbox just like on your video, do you want to see it =]

Sure, why don't you upload it in the video thread? :]

btw... I'd like to know how many frames it takes for the hitbox to come out when Ganon throws a banana peel straight down.

 

[Big O]

I finally got around to doing the aerial flame choke stuff since school is finally over. Basically you get a -10 frame advantage on everyone except Olimar where you have a -6frame advantage. It seems Olimar has a bit more tumble lag than everyone else.

Banana Dthrow is 8/23

A buffered SHFF Bair that fast falls as soon as possible lands on frame 23 and since it is a hard landing ends on frame 27. A perfect AC Bair lands on frame 22 and ends on frame 23 with a soft landing. So a buffered SHFF Bair has 4 more frames of lag.

 

[TP]

You still didn't answer my Utilt question.

 

[Big O]

Some people sure are hard to please...lol just kidding. I forgot about it.

The wind hitbox comes out on frame 6.

 

[Z1GMA]

I just have to say it again, Big_O . . . Good ****!

Whoa! This means we've got garanteed followups on Olimar after our Aerudo. Sweet, I didn't know that :}

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I just have to say it again, Big_O . . . Good ****!

Whoa! This means we've got garanteed followups on Olimar after our Aerudo. Sweet, I didn't know that :}

No.. we're still at a -6 disadvantage.

 

[Z1GMA]

Ray Kalm Words

Ahaa . . I totally missunderstood.

. . . More importantly:

Banana Dthrow is 8/23

+

11 Diddy

=

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ahaa . . I totally missunderstood.

. . . More importantly:

+

=

Doesn't a StudderStep Downtoss take longer than 8 frames?

 

[Big O]

Well you still have 3 frames of leeway so you could probably pull it off reliably with some practice. It also seems that platform dropped Uair is guaranteed on everyone except Ganon himself from a grounded flame choke

 

[Z1GMA]

Doesn't a StudderStep Downtoss take longer than 8 frames?

A GlideToss is faster. It only takes like 1 frame of extra delay.
Though it wouldn't surprise me if it even is exactly as fast as a normal DownToss, if you make it frame perfect.

 

[MurdaMoe]

ganons probly put the most work into their ****

good job

 

[weinner]

Does the quake frame data include the jump?

 

[Big O]

Yeah it includes the jump.

 

[PhantomX]

There isn't any attachment functions on the boards, unfortunately. Happy editing, though.

 

[weinner]

So then the amount of frames for the quake without the jump would be 3-4 frames. Yes?

Also, a platform drop on the platform in Smashville to a Wizkick results in a quake. So that would be around 6-7 frames (3 for the platform drop and 3-4 for the quake), right? If that's so we then have a follow-up on ourselves and everyone else on the roster if we ground choke on that platform.

 

[weinner]

Ganon's True Damage

Affect: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231959 (Give thanks to Wienner)

WTF?

I should have edited that more if I knew it were here

I'll just put it here, you can put it up at the front page and you can then remove the link to that topic.

Standard Ground Attacks and Tilts

Jab

7.35% (9.45% tipped)

F-Tilt

13.65%

D-Tilt

12.6%

U-Tilt

27.3% (19.95% if it connects at the explosion)

Dash Attack

15.75% (10.5% left-over hitbox)

Smash Attacks

F-Smash

25.2% (35.28% charged)

U-Smash

19.95% (26.25% charged)

Sweetspot

23.1% (32.34% charged)

D-Smash

19.95% (27.93% charged)

First Hit

5.25% (7.35% charged)

Second Hit

14.7% (20.58% charged)

Other Ground Attacks

Ledge Attack (both variations)

10.5%

Trip Attack

6.3%

Floor Attack

6.3%

Aerials

Nair

18.9%

First

11.55%

Second

7.35%

Fair

15.75%

Sweetspot

17.85%

Bair

16.8%

Dair

23.1%

Sourspot (at his chest)

17.85%

Uair

13.65%

Tipman (ending frames)

6.3%

Throws and Pummel

Pummel

2.1%

F-throw

13.65%

B-Throw

10.5%

D-Throw

7.35%

U-Throw

7.35%

Special Attacks

Warlock Punch

33.6%

Reverse Warlock Punch

36.75%

Aerial Warlock Punch

37.8%

Reverse Aerial Warlock Punch

39.9%

Murder Choke

9.45%

Aerial Murder Choke

12.6%

Wizkick

12.6% initial

10.5% rest of the hit box

Aerial Wizkick

15.75% initial

14.7% rest of the hitbox

Quake

8.4%

Dark Dive

11.55%

Dark Uppercut

7.35%

Formula

The formula to get these percentages is

training mode base damage x 1.05

For example, the training mode base for a Dair is 22% that value times 1.05 is 23.1.

The game probably just does this simply because Sakurai wills it.

Amazing Ampharos and ColinJF came up with the formula. I just crunched some numbers to get the percentages. Thanks guys.

Their topic is here in this link.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210557



Maybe one day i'll use their formula again for Ganondorf's for the percentages of his moves when stale.

 

[Z1GMA]

- You can always try it out, Weinner.

 

[PK-ow!]

Alright, the first edit is done - something that I considered most important to do quickly.

As this is our project, I'll take suggestions if anyone sees something in particular on which I make a non-ideal decision. But let me show you my view of the restructurings before you suggest stuff, okay?


I suppose I will also prioritize integrating new data over the reformatting agenda, so expect weinner's info to make it in there soon.

 

[PK-ow!]

I want to juxtapose the Choke followup data with the frame advantage data, and see if I can find a rhyme or reason for the exceptions - you know, the chars that you can't hit even though you have enough frames. Right now we have "they don't bounce". Also Olimar.

Plus, I'd like to create a mnemonic for the frame data itself. Is it truly ad hoc? I took a wild guess that maybe it has to do with a ratio of vertical weight over fall speed, or something.

But mainly I just want to try to improve the ease of studying this stuff. I never want to whiff a dtilt on Choke ever again.

 

[Big O]

I looked at the chart in Swoop's guide on choke follow-ups and tested out the oddballs.

I know the only reason Wario and Squirtle are in the situational group is because they can DI behind you. You can buffer backward Ftilts to hit them when they do though so all you have to do is react accordingly. Marth is also in the situational group because his roll away for some reason starts being invincible on frame 2 unlike most grounded rolls so you can get him with Dtilts, Ftilts, or dash attacks. On Wolf jabs are guaranteed. Idk why it says he can escape by DI'ing towards you so that is probably some kind of typo. Falco, Ganon, and Lucario don't get hit by jabs so no follow-ups. Olimar has extra lag on his floor bounce so both the aerial and grounded chokes are more effective.

It seems all of the tall characters are the ones that have lower frame advantages. Only the tall characters that can't get hit by jabs have no guaranteed follow-ups.

I remember doing platform drop wizkicks on Battlefield and they just did aerial wizkicks. I did it right after frame 3 of the platform drop too so timing probably isn't the issue. Your idea might only work on moving platforms Weinner. Also excluding the jump quake hits on frames 3 and 4.

 

[weinner]

I remember doing platform drop wizkicks on Battlefield and they just did aerial wizkicks. I did it right after frame 3 of the platform drop too so timing probably isn't the issue. Your idea might only work on moving platforms Weinner. Also excluding the jump quake hits on frames 3 and 4.

The platform on Smashville appears to be thicker than that of Battlefield. Perhaps when platform dropping on Battlefield the game registers that he is through the platform and continues with a Wizkick. If that is so and if the platform on Smashville is thicker than the platforms on Battlefield or otherwise, then maybe when platform dropping on that one platform the game registers that his character model is inside the platform and so when Wizkicking the game registers that as a quake, as his is near the ground during the first few frames. It's a little hard to explain but you get my point, right?

 

[PK-ow!]

Okay, something potentially huge has been found, it's in Brawl tactical, I couldn't think of a better place to put it.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239611

It's potentially relevant to frames, I guess, since it has thrown off the calculation of Dedede's spot dodge frames. Check out the Luigi & Falco vid linked on the first page.

 

[B!squick]

Well, now we just need to test moves until we figure out which one works best on that dam(n) penguin.

Why is the "d-word" censored?

 

[Big O]

That is pretty interesting. I remember seeing something about this a while back and some guy complaining how unfair to G&W this was since he is 2D (I lol'd at that). It would be pretty tedious to test this out for all of his moves though. Partial invincibility is pretty hard to test.

 

[MoblinMan]

"Flipman," something that zigma posted a while ago.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=215346

 

[B!squick]

Since it's DeDeDe's upper body more than anything that's staying out of reach it would make sense to start from the ground up with moves like DTilt.

 

[Z1GMA]

"Flipman," something that zigma posted a while ago.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=215346

I've noticed that there's no link to any of my AT-threads in ANY guide/sticky.

I believe it's because of my English ^^J

EDIT: I just saw that you've added a few of my AT-write ups to the OP. thx.
The OP looks great except for the fact that pretty much everything is WHITE, lol.

WTF?

I should have edited that more if I knew it were here

I'll just put it here, you can put it up at the front page and you can then remove the link to that topic.

Standard Ground Attacks and Tilts

Jab

7.35% (9.45% tipped)

F-Tilt

13.65%

D-Tilt

12.6%

U-Tilt

27.3% (19.95% if it connects at the explosion)

Dash Attack

15.75% (10.5% left-over hitbox)

Smash Attacks

F-Smash

25.2% (35.28% charged)

U-Smash

19.95% (26.25% charged)

Sweetspot

22.05% (30.87% charged)

D-Smash

19.95% (27.93% charged)

First Hit

5.25% (7.35% charged)

Second Hit

14.7% (20.58% charged)

Other Ground Attacks

Ledge Attack (both variations)

10.5%

Trip Attack

6.3%

Floor Attack

6.3%

Aerials

Nair

18.9%

First

11.55%

Second

7.35%

Fair

15.75%

Sweetspot

17.85%

Bair

16.8%

Dair

23.1%

Sourspot (at his chest)

17.85%

Uair

13.65%

Tipman (ending frames)

6.3%

Throws and Pummel

Pummel

2.1%

F-throw

13.65%

B-Throw

10.5%

D-Throw

7.35%

U-Throw

7.35%

Special Attacks

Warlock Punch

33.6%

Reverse Warlock Punch

36.75%

Aerial Warlock Punch

37.8%

Reverse Aerial Warlock Punch

39.9%

Murder Choke

9.45%

Aerial Murder Choke

12.6%

Wizkick

12.6% initial

10.5% rest of the hit box

Aerial Wizkick

15.75% initial

14.7% rest of the hitbox

Quake

8.4%

Dark Dive

11.55%

Dark Uppercut

7.35%

Formula

The formula to get these percentages is

training mode base damage x 1.05

For example, the training mode base for a Dair is 22% that value times 1.05 is 23.1.

The game probably just does this simply because Sakurai wills it.

Amazing Ampharos and ColinJF came up with the formula. I just crunched some numbers to get the percentages. Thanks guys.

Their topic is here in this link.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210557



Maybe one day i'll use their formula again for Ganondorf's for the percentages of his moves when stale.

Wow, that's a quite impressive, Weinner.

 

[Z1GMA]

You guys should start calling me DP -_-

 

[Z1GMA]

I've actually written a Ganondorf guide before, which would've been here for a while right now, if my computer didn't corrupt.

^This... Do you still have it?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Just to make myself sure, does Ganon have 7 frames of jump lag?

 

[Swoops]

Yea, 7 frames to beginning of aerial. 7 frames for shield drop too. Seems to be his lucky number. Or are you talking about on landing?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Yea, 7 frames to beginning of aerial. 7 frames for shield drop too. Seems to be his lucky number. Or are you talking about on landing?

Nope, I meant the beginning of a aerial, you got it right. And, I'm pretty sure about every other character has 7 frames of shield drop lag too.

 

[SmashBrosForce]

I want to know if it's possible to Post here my informations of ZSS Armor Piece Combo.

I talked with Z1GMA for he put his informations here about Flower Pills and Utilt Trix too.

Z1GMA post here your opinion dude.

It will be nice to give some additional informations.

 

[Z1GMA]

I want to know if it's possible to Post here my informations of ZSS Armor Piece Combo.

Go ahead and post. You don't have ask such things >_>

 

[SmashBrosForce]

ZSS Armor Piece Combo​

Here is the Link of the ZSS Armor Piece Combo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frXWF...e=channel_page

*Aerial Combo:
- Aerial Flame-Choke -> Down Toss (Armor Piece) -> Wizard Kick [Does 32%]

*Ground Combo:
- Flame Choke -> Down Toss (Armor Piece) [Does 19%]



* Unfortunately, The Aerial Combo works only when ZSS has 0%.

* The Ground Combo can be performed at any Percents.

* In the Aerial Combo if Wizard Kick connects with the Ledge, can be cancelled, so its possible to Perform a WKC at the final of the Combo.

* You can perform with all Armor Pieces, and these Pieces inflict the same Damage.



Z1GMA would be nice if you post here your Informations of Flower Pills and Utilt Trix.
I asked before to be polite and don't make mistakes.