Ganon Techs, Skills, Frame Data, and Hitboxes

[Bahamut777]

This is something that has been bothering me lately. Our boards is a big rubble (due to our excessive murdering powers). I think we could use some new organization. :/

 

[Z1GMA]

Just a random tip I want to throw in here:

I've heard ppl say "I sometimes do nothing after Flame Choking a new opponent, just to see what they do/how they react, so that I can be more successful with my Gerudo Follow-ups later on in the match".

What I want to say is:
Our Gerudo -> Dtilt is a good tool for observing how they react after a Flame Choke.
If they get sent up/towards you, they obviously tried to roll behind you.
And if they get sent up/away from you, they obviously tried to roll away.
Well, you get the point.

And if you know your %'s, you can even tell if they tried to instantly
"Rise up" (Holding their Control Stick up - Resulting in that they pop up higher than if they would've done nothing with their controller).

One other good thing is that if you're constantly landing garantueed Dtilts, they will have NO CLUE you're observing their actions as they "bounce around" by the power of your mighty boot.
And they will not put as much effort into varying their rolls/get-ups, because you have convinced them that you'll give them a garateed Dtilt every single time.

 

[thexsunrosered]

Just a random tip I want to throw in here:

I've heard ppl say "I sometimes do nothing after Flame Choking a new opponent, just to see what they do/how they react, so that I can be more successful with my Gerudo Follow-ups later on in the match".

What I want to say is:
Our Gerudo -> Dtilt is a good tool for observing how they react after a Flame Choke.
If they get sent up/towards you, they obviously tried to roll behind you.
And if they get sent up/away from you, they obviously tried to roll away. Well, you get the point.

And if you know your %'s, you can even tell if they tried to instantly "Rise up" (Holding their Control Stick up - Resulting in that they pop up higher than if they would've done nothing with their controller).

One other good thing is that if you're constantly landing garanteed Dtilts, they will have NO CLUE you're observing their actions as they "bounce around" by the power of your mighty boot.
And they will not put as much effort into varying their rolls/get-ups, because you have convinced them that you'll give them a garateed Dtilt every single time.

grand master zig at your service

 

[GoofBall]

Pure geius

That is really, REALLY, helpful.

 

[ul7r05]

I <3 Ganondorf.

 

[Exalted]

Too bad Ganon is incapable of answering your call of love.

 

[Exalted]

Marcus and I did some testing to see which GUA's Ganon can Thunderstomp after a Gerudo and it turns out almost every character's GUA can be Thunderstomped with correct timing and placement.

Below are the characters it works on...

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Wario
Link
Toon Link
Zelda
Sheik
Pit
Donkey Kong
Diddy
R.O.B
Game & Watch
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Pikachu
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Marth
Ike
Ness
Lucas
Snake
Sonic

And the characters which you can't Thunderstomp are...

Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Samus
Ice Climbers
Zero Suit Samus

Note that most of those characters hit very high and wide with their GUA's.

That's it. If anyone's got any questions or suggestions please speak up.

 

[Noobicidal]

Ice Climbers

That just adds insult to injury.

 

[holyv]

What is murder quake anyways?

 

[-LzR-]

Just jumping and quickly doing sideB to cause a grounded hitbox, I think.
It sucks anyways.

 

[Makke]

.....................

 

[-LzR-]

Well that was a typo. It still sucks.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

It really should explode.

 

[Alien Vision]

No. He should put a hole in the ground and pull out that damn sword of his and show everyone that the inconspicuous warriors are always the ones you don't want to **** with.

 

[-LzR-]

Needs moar ganondoken.

 

[Cracker1204]

When you do the quake move (super fast down b after you jump) that means you are in the correct height to do a super jump (aka FoG)...

so i had this idea that you could use FoG from the ground, like buffer a jump + down B immedialty after your first jump but it doesnt seem to work (even in slowmo).

Can someone explain if this is possible and possibly why it doesn't work

 

[Mr. game and watch]

You hit the ground.

 

[DLA]

Mr. Game and watch has no idea what he's talking about...

I actually had this same exact thought a few days ago. I wasn't able to test it though.

However I don't think you can do it because you can't buffer the same input twice in a row. In this case, jump. I don't think it's possible to buffer a double jump from the ground, which is required for an FoG.

If anyone finds out how to buffer a double jump from the ground then it is theoretically possible to FoG instantly. But I havent seen any indication that this is possible.

 

[The24thGanondorf]

I secretly main Ganon and to step up my game with him I got my own frame data. It's also about time the king of evil got some detailed frame data. It is almost complete but all the little details take time. I may or may not get around to doing all of the small stuff. The format is Name ...attacking frames/completion frame...(special notes). Invincibility frames are in green.

TABLE OF CONTENTS
1) Attacks
2) Dodges
3) Frame Advantage

ATTACK DATA​

Jab ...8-9/34

Ftilt ...10-12/39

Dtilt ...10-12/35

Utilt ...81-84/114...(Wind hitbox out on frame 6)

Grab ...7-8/29

Dash Grab ...11-12/39

Pivot Grab ...10-11/35

Dash Attack ...10-19/41...(The strong 15 damage hit is on frames 10-12)

Fsmash ...21-26/59...(Attacks on frame 11 from charge release)

Dsmash ...15-18,35-38/63...(Attacks on frame 11 from charge release)

Usmash ...21-23/41...(Attacks on frame 11 from charge release)

Nair ...7-13,20-32/44...(Has 22 frames of landing lag and AC on frames 1-3 and 41-44)

Bair ...10-12/35...(Has 22 frames of landing lag and AC on frames 1-6 and 22-35)

Fair ...14-20/54...(Has 32 frames of landing lag and AC on frames 1-6)

Dair ...16-21/44...(Has 35 frames of landing lag and AC when landing on frames 1-3 and 32-44)

Uair ...6-16/33...(Strong hitboxes on frames 6-10, medium hitboxes on frames 11-13, and weak hitboxes on frames 14-16. Has 22 frames of landing lag and AC on frames 25-33)

Jumping Aerial 7+ aerial (a short hop or full hop Dair would hit on starting on frame 22). Double Jumping Aerial is 1+ aerial. Short hop air time = 31 frames and can fast fall as soon as frame 16. Full hop air time = 46 frames and can fast fall as soon as frame 23. You can fast fall after a double jump as soon as frame 22. Soft landing lag = 2 frames and hard landing lag = 5 frames. It takes 3 frames to platform drop.

Warlock Punch ...70-71/117

Turning Warlock Punch ...80-81/127

Flame Choke ...16-30/59

Aerial Flame Choke ...19-31...(The RCO lag is 15 frames for soft landings and 20 frames for hard landings. A buffered short hop side b ends on frame 66 but if you have side b RCO lag it actually ends on frame 56 since it replaces the 30 frame landing lag with the 20 frame fall special lag. A buffered short hop side b also lands before the grabbing hitbox is finished. Has 30 frames of landing lag before fall special and 20 frames of landing lag after fall special)

Wizkick ...16-35/76...(WKC at frames 40-50 depending on how far away from the edge you start the wizkick. This means you can Uair out of a WKC and hit as soon as frame 46 if you buffer the Uair and WKC from as close to the edge as possible. "Platform to platform/back to the edge" wizkick ends on frame 67 so you can double jump on frame 68. If you land during it though it ends on frame 74. You might as well jump out of it basically)

Quake ...10-11/52

Dark Dive ...14-28,34-36...(The shoryuken part of the dark dive happens on frames 34-36. The RCO lag is 15 frames for soft landings and 30 frames for hard landings. Has 30 frames of landing lag and fall special lag. Has 20 frames of landing lag and fall special lag with flame choke RCO)

Get Up Attack On Back ...19/49...(Hits twice. Invincible on frames 1 to the end of the hitbox)

Get Up Attack On Stomach ...20/49...(Hits twice. Invincible on frames 1 to the end of the hitbox)

Ledge Attack Under 100 ...24-28/54...(Invincible on frames 1-21)

Ledge Attack At 100+ ...37-40/68...(Invincible on frames 1-40)

Item Down Toss ...8/23

DODGE DATA​

Spot Dodge ...2-20/25

Roll ...4-19/31...(Both rolls have the same invincibility and ending frames)

Air Dodge ...4-29/49

Ledge Climb Under 100% ...1-22/33

Ledge Jump Under 100% ...1-11/11

Ledge Roll Under 100% ...1-25/48

Ledge Climb At 100+ ...1-49/58

Ledge Jump At 100+ ...1-19/19

Ledge Roll At 100+ ...1-60/78

FRAME ADVANTAGE​

Grounded Flame Choke Frame Advantage (All thanks to K Prime)​

8 Ganondorf

9 Bowser
9 DK
9 Falco
9 Link
9 Lucario
9 Marth
9 Samus
9 Snake
9 Wolf

10 DDD
10 Falcon
10 Fox
10 Ike
10 Mario
10 Peach
10 Pit
10 Sheik
10 Sonic
10 Zelda

11 Charizard
11 Diddy
11 Luigi
11 Pikachu
11 Toon Link

12 G&W
12 Ice Climbers
12 Ivysaur
12 Jigglypuff
12 Kirby
12 Lucas
12 Metaknight
12 Ness
12 ROB
12 Squirtle
12 Wario
12 Yoshi
12 ZSS

16 Olimar

Aerial Flame Choke Advantage​

Ganon has 40 frames of lag with frame 1 being the first frame of slamming them on the floor. It seems that everyone is the same except Olimar. They take 30 frames to bounce on the floor while Olimar takes 34 frames to bounce on the floor. This is also probably why Olimar has 4 more frames of lag than the 12 frame group on the grounded choke. No one can hit you before you can block except IC's.

-6 Olimar

-10 Everyone else

Shield Advantage​

This is just frame advantage on block. Keep in mind that it takes 7 frames to shield drop except for Yoshi who takes even longer than that.

Jab ...-28 close and -26 far

Ftilt ...-25

Dtilt ...-21

Dash Attack ...-26

Fsmash ...-30

Usmash ...-13

Bair ...-8 to -6 when AC as early as you can depending on how late you hit them

Tipman ...-9 to-8 when AC as early as possible depending on how tall they are

Dair ...-17 to -12 for buffered short hop AC Dairs depending on how late you hit them

Feel free to contribute to this thread. I will probably add some of the details like grounded stuff and finishing up in general later.

Yes, but that's only for off the edge. It doesn't often work

Where did you get this GIF? Did you download it or did you use a tool that's used for hacking Melee?