Ganon Techs, Skills, Frame Data, and Hitboxes

[echos]

good **** gleam on keeping this thread going i'v been sorta on a hiatus since there haven't been alot of tourneys going on in the md/va region as of late. There starting back up again so i will be using this guide again on the regular thanks for keeping it up to date.

EDIT: gleam i was reading your guide again and i notice that no one has mentioned doing nair out of wizkick cancel i find this epicly useful. Being how it has that lingering hit box you end up hitting your opponent a few more extra inches away from the edge. You also still have your second jump and your up-b still at your disposal so recovering is no problem i find this version of gimping just as useful as the tippman spike, its also more unpredictable. It's not as situational as it sounds either because a f-tilt from center stage on any neutral stage will send your opponent flying at a downward horizontal angle placing them exactly where you want them to be for this to work. If you haven't tried and tested this move out please do im sure you will find it useful.

 

[Gleam]

Good job echoes, I put what you said in, good luck in tournaments.

 

[Swoops]

Alright, found two new grab release options off of lucas' air release and their pretty sexy.

After air release over the stage, it is possible to get a free DA, but the timing is pretty difficult. A lot of the time you'll get the weak hit of it, but it sets up nice.

Another thing I found which looks so awesome, is air release off the stage into a walk off f-air o.O. I haven't got the timing down to where I can do it farther away from the edge, but when you're decently close you can get this and it kills so **** early that it's not even funny. Looks sooooo amazing.

 

[Calciphoce]

Jesus Christ this thread is massive. Almost as massive as the big man himself. Ganon is my secondary, but **** with this much info he might become my main. Kudos.

 

[mc4]

i just started using ganon a little more for fun he's definitely a fun character thanks for the super jump explanations

 

[dookdigity]

I don't main Ganondorf or anything but I went to a tournament in Colorado yesterday and figured out a new combo with him on my own. I asked everyone there if they have seen it and they haven't. I don't have time to see if it already exists so I will just throw it out there:

Basically all it is is taking about 2 or 3 steps away from the edge, then when your opponent is knocked off the stage and about at the end of Ganon's Forward B kick move do Ganon's "Forward B" (whatever that move is called) once you reach the end of it it should hit your opponent, followed with an immediate jump to Dair. I pulled it off about 8 times and it is pretty epic. I can get vids up on youtube once I finish editing the tournament footage.

Let me know if this already exists Hope that helped at all.

 

[TP]

I don't main Ganondorf or anything but I went to a tournament in Colorado yesterday and figured out a new combo with him on my own. I asked everyone there if they have seen it and they haven't. I don't have time to see if it already exists so I will just throw it out there:

Basically all it is is taking about 2 or 3 steps away from the edge, then when your opponent is knocked off the stage and about at the end of Ganon's Forward B kick move do Ganon's "Forward B" (whatever that move is called) once you reach the end of it it should hit your opponent, followed with an immediate jump to Dair. I pulled it off about 8 times and it is pretty epic. I can get vids up on youtube once I finish editing the tournament footage.

Let me know if this already exists Hope that helped at all.

First of all, I believe you are speaking of his DOWN B, also known as the Wizkick. If the kick ends just barely off the stage, you will have no lag after it, allowing you to do another move such as the Dair very quickly. This is a very useful move, especially when people don't see it coming. I actually find Uair a better followup than Dair because it sends them pretty much horizontally and is far more likely to work.

 

[dookdigity]

True, DOWN B. So it IS a common move, SWEET! I need to see more of this!

 

[hyperstation]

There's a huge amount of depth the Wiz Kick Cancel. Check out Gleam's sticky. I'm pretty sure it has a list of the usages. I helped investigate all of this when it was first becoming known, but besides the obvious ledge canceled DAir, UAir, BAir, NAir, FAir, anytime you wiz kick off the side of a stage, you will enter the "roll out" animation. You can jump out of this with DI and set up a pretty nice defensive wall for recovering opponents to have to deal with. You will have exactly ONE jump and any ONE of the following: FAir, DAir, NAir, UAir and still be able to sweetspot the ledge on a recovering upB.

 

[Blad01]

So i don't find something : The Aerial Choke done on someone who's hanging the ledge. Someone has posted a video that explained it could "murder slam" some characters, like Lucas.

 

[hyperstation]

Yep, it's known, blad. Mmac posted a thread on in a while ago. There's like 6 characters who can be caught by it, MK being one of them. DANGEROUS move, but I'm looking to get the spacing right so it's safe and reliable. Talk about a nasty kill, right?

EDIT:

Here's the thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195376

The correct spacing from the edge to do this safely is one roll from the ledge (with some degree of leniency either way). I'm checking now about the other characters that Mmac says just get ganoncided. I want to see if we can safely KO them with correct spacing.

 

[Blad01]

Yep, it's known, blad. Mmac posted a thread on in a while ago. There's like 6 characters who can be caught by it, MK being one of them. DANGEROUS move, but I'm looking to get the spacing right so it's safe and reliable. Talk about a nasty kill, right?

Hehe, i know it's know, i just wanted to find the video ;p

So i guess i'm gonna test by myself >_>

 

[Gleam]

I just named it "Anti Aerial Ledge" and yes its a very dangerous yet rewarding tech. If we can get the spacing down to where the "Dangers" of the move aren't as bad, it'll get better.

Ganon...who else has such badass kill moves.

 

[hyperstation]

I just named it "Anti Aerial Ledge" and yes its a very dangerous yet rewarding tech. If we can get the spacing down to where the "Dangers" of the move aren't as bad, it'll get better.

Ganon...who else has such badass kill moves.

I just found today that there is a spacing to make this move connect consistently but remains safe if it misses. It's exactly one roll away from the ledge. I'm now going to use this move consistently in the match-ups in which it's viable, because you won't pass the ledge into fall special if they leave the ledge. I'm pretty excited about it, actually.

 

[Gleam]

Nice Hyper. So basically not only do we have D-tilt and DA on ledge grabbers but now we have this sick Gerudo on them. Ganon's anti ledge and off stage game really does seem to be one of his fine parts at the moment.

 

[Teronist09]

Yep, it's known, blad. Mmac posted a thread on in a while ago. There's like 6 characters who can be caught by it, MK being one of them.

If you take one step toward the edge after you roll away , you can do this to olimar. HE can still use his up-b and grab back, but it might scare him, and you could potentially set up another ledge spike perhaps. But if you input the choke too late and Ganon is too far off the ground, it goes into a ganoncide. You have to input it like you would a stomp it would seem, or else be good and mashing for buffer.

EDIT: Mario, Luigi, Squirtle and Ivysaur can be anti ledge choked. Squirtle and Ivy need an extra inch of a step I think, though. I may have pulled it off on IC too, but I can't remember... probably not though. Nevermind, you can do it on IC, but the spacing is just under a whole step forawrd, and sometimes they can't up-b back up right away.
When they do up b, it takes long enough you could potentially set up and do it choke spike them again, possibly for an infinite (provided they both grab the edge at the same time/drop and use up-b together/nana is dead|| if Nana climbs up you grab her and that would end the chain)? I'll have to get my brother to help me test it.

If they up b you can fall off and use an aerial, but fall special from choke means you can't get into position to roll into a second choke before they get on the stage. If they attacked up you still grab them though, just no spike. But i suppose an IC player would just jump once to get the ledge.

The spacing is really really tight for IC and PT though. Even the slightest bit too close and it's ganoncide, so you'd have to be really good at telling how close to get to attempt and infinite, if it's possible.


Is this move just for damage racking? You can get out of it pretty easy, and in MK's case he can hit him out of it.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Oh I am so taking advantage of this.

 

[darkserenade]

Sorry to randomly just pop in, but for the Super Jump, can you switch the place with Down B with B-sticking down?

 

[hyperstation]

Sorry to randomly just pop in, but for the Super Jump, can you switch the place with Down B with B-sticking down?

It's a better idea to set L to special. You don't want to sacrifice your C-Stick.

 

[Z1GMA]

Here's something you may want to add..
"Flipman" (No lag ledgehop)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWlFqFodZ0A&feature=channel

 

[Gleam]

I have that on there, perhaps even twice. There's one I *called* Phantom Ganon (Ignore nomenclature for now) where one should use Aerial attacks while hanging on a ledge. However I dont' have a video so I will use the one you have.

Which is great.

Yeah there's one called "Ledge attack options" I put the video under that.

 

[Z1GMA]

I have that on there, perhaps even twice. There's one I *called* Phantom Ganon (Ignore nomenclature for now) where one should use Aerial attacks while hanging on a ledge. However I dont' have a video so I will use the one you have.

Which is great.

Yeah there's one called "Ledge attack options" I put the video under that.

Hmm... the point with my vid is that there's (no lag at all) when you land after the Uair.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWlFqFodZ0A&feature=channel
It's like if the Uair gets AC'd and you can do anything from there.

I have also been able to do it with Bair once..
All other arials gives landing lag when performed from ledge to Stage.

 

[Gleam]

Ah now I see what you mean. Pretty cool Zigma, you want to give a brief discription on how you performed it?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ah now I see what you mean. Pretty cool Zigma, you want to give a brief discription on how you performed it?

Just like how you preform any other aerial during ledge hop.

 

[Gleam]

Ah, k. Anyways I made a point in the "Ledge attack options" that it is possible to get on stage lagless with it. So good job everyone.

 

[Z1GMA]

All of Ganons arials can be performed "Ledge to stage"..
But Uair & bair are the only ones I've managed to AC(sort of) to the stage ;/

Ledgedrop DOWN (Soft ledgedrop, or you'll FF); then instant jump + Uair while holding the controlstick towards the stage.

Looks pretty pimp too..

 

[hyperstation]

I've got some new sh*t I've been working on that will see the light of day sometime soon. I keep dredging into Ganon's ledge game and I've been finding some pretty cool stuff. I've done a lot of testing, but there's still a lot more to be done before I post about it. I have no in-game experience with any of this, but my training rounds leave me optimistic. Look for a new post here or a new thread if I have enough findings that it warrants one. I've got new ideas in the areas of WKC aerials, Ledge->Stage Airdodges and Ledge->Stage aerials, as well as something new I'm working on to set up some ledge->ledge brick walls/planking. We'll see how it pans out.

...And I just realized that this post is kinda useless. However, it's New Year's Day and I couldn't get effed up last night because I had a spinal tap during the day (HARDCORE!,) so I'm awake early and sober. I'm excited and you should be too, fartbutts.

 

[Gleam]

Happy New Year everyone.

Darn it DAD, I order you to bring that awesome ledge stuff you have going on ASAP. I for one love Ganon's edgeugarding and to give Ganon even better ledge game would pretty much intale Ganon as one of the "King of Edges."

So yes...work on it...NOW.

 

[Kholdstare]

I've noticed that if a character is near the edge of the stage and you jump off and Flame Choke to them, it will do an aerial flame choke.

 

[Gleam]

I've noticed that if a character is near the edge of the stage and you jump off and Flame Choke to them, it will do an aerial flame choke.

>_> ummm, yes. Jumping+Flame Choke=Aerial flame choke. Jumping at all, or when you're not touching the ground...is an aerial flame choke.

I'm not sure if you meant something else but you said was pretty...obvious.

 

[hyperstation]

Z1GMA-

I'm having trouble getting the UAir to AC consistently. I'd like to know what your preferred method of input is for both the Jump and the UAir. Are you Tap Jumping with the control stick or are you using X/Y? Is your UAir from the C-stick or from control stick UP + A?

I'm working on really breaking down Ganon's ledge game right now (for like the 100th time, it seems), and part of that is figuring out the most efficient input for all of the Ledge->Stage aerials. Unfortunately, there isn't just one foolproof method. All of the aerials have a seemingly slim margin of success at first, but once you figure out the most efficient input, the success rate goes up drastically.

 

[Z1GMA]

Z1GMA-

I'm having trouble getting the UAir to AC consistently. I'd like to know what your preferred method of input is for both the Jump and the UAir. Are you Tap Jumping with the control stick or are you using X/Y? Is your UAir from the C-stick or from control stick UP + A?

I'm working on really breaking down Ganon's ledge game right now (for like the 100th time, it seems), and part of that is figuring out the most efficient input for all of the Ledge->Stage aerials. Unfortunately, there isn't just one foolproof method. All of the aerials have a seemingly slim margin of success at first, but once you figure out the most efficient input, the success rate goes up drastically.

The method that works best for me is:
Drop off of the ledge by pressing down, not back. And try not to FF.
Then, instantly jump with x/y and almost simultaneously Uair using controllstick+A, and keep pushing yourself towards the stage..

I dunno why, but I (seem) to have the greatest success on Smashville.

My english sucks monkey pole, so I hope you can understand what i wrote ^^

EDIT: let me hear if it was any different later ok

 

[hyperstation]

The method that works best for me is:
Drop off of the ledge by pressing down, not back. And try not to FF.
Then, instantly jump with x/y and almost simultaneously Uair using controllstick+A, and keep pushing yourself towards the stage..

I dunno why, but I (seem) to have the greatest success on Smashville.

My english sucks monkey pole, so I hope you can understand what i wrote ^^

I understood perfectly. I'll test what you're saying. I've been using the c-stick for the UAir because in using Up+A, I would FAir onto stage sometimes because I try to UAir and DI too quickly or something.

I just got an idea to try using the C-stick for Aerial smash DI for these aerials. I don't know what type of results to expect. I've played with SDI when I was testing the lateral range of Ganon's Up+B and it works well, so I wonder if we might find some cool stuff with ledge->stage aerials.

 

[Panulphe_Scarmiglione]

This is unrelated :s but I noticed the only items listed for items ganondorf can pick up were bananas turnips and bombs. He can also pick up grenades. Probably useless, since Snake can just grenade strip, but could still be a viable option in a Snake match if Snake doesn't pull out a second nade to strip the first.

 

[Togaboy]

recindedddddd

 

[stRIP]

Mulling over the ganon forums I didn't come across anything like this. It isn't an advanced tech, just a regular tech that ganon players should be aware of.

Being that ganon is a vertical-jump challenged individual (referring to his short hop), he has trouble with edge releasing and getting to the stage. Ganon simply can't release an edge and then short hop onto it.

But there is an exception! If done quickly, Ganon can SH-Dair onto the ledge. He somehow just stomps himself up there. I've tested this on smashville and battlefield; i'm not sure if it depends on the structure of the ledge (e.g. probably doesn't work on mario sunshine or the metaknight stage (name escapes me atm). Further, it doesn't seem to work with any of his other aerials. Thus, as far as I can tell, this is his one true method for returning to the stage via stage-release+SH.

Anyway, this is a useful edgeguard in some situations because you do not risk giving up the edge whilst you stomp granted that you actually make it to the ledge. Hope this contributes to everyone's ledge game.

We said you in ya thread that this is discovered a long time ago

 

[TP]

Togaboy, quit hiding your stuff by editing. There is nothing wrong with posting something like that, so don't sweat it. (Quake is an exception)

Gleam, the last update was a good while back. Thinking of updating soon?

 

[Gleam]

Togaboy, quit hiding your stuff by editing. There is nothing wrong with posting something like that, so don't sweat it. (Quake is an exception)

Gleam, the last update was a good while back. Thinking of updating soon?

TP's right, no need to hide your post...but yes if you had so much as mentioned the word quake...be it earthquake, soundquake, Ekauq or any form of the word Quake you would've been ripped apart.

Ganon mainers are very vicious when it come to the Quake.

If I don't update sometime today, most likely I will tomarrow.

 

[hyperstation]

You should add my exhaustive WKC video to the thread. That's good ish.

 

[Gleam]

I've edited some new stuff in. I edited the Chainchoking with new stuff in TP OP.

and instead of just putting a link I put the OP of Hyperstations LAB. So whenever you guys get new stuff in the OP I'll try to get it added here soon.