Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
7/10. Ganon has his ups and downs on this stage.Lylat for everything after the first half of the first sentence.
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Ganon Stage Discussion (Norfair)
- Thread starter TP
- Start date
I actually really like lylat. I used to hate this stupid stage when I was just starting to play Ganon, but now I'm starting to counterpick it against more and more people. As far as you also having a tough time recovering on lylat, hell any time Ganon's knocked off the stage he's going to have a tough time recovering.
Personally, even though spacing is Marth's game, I'd rather have more space to work with against him than Brinstar has to offer.
Personally, even though spacing is Marth's game, I'd rather have more space to work with against him than Brinstar has to offer.
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
Hmm...I hate Lylat Cruise. So very much. It's not a good neutral for Ganon, as there are others that serve that purpose much better, and Ganon has a ton of better CPs. It will **** up thunderstorming, and it doesn't really help Gerudo that often, either. Seeing as how the only recovery more gimpable than Ganon's is Link's, it's not a good stage to pick if you want to gimp either.
For a stage that's a much better CP, try Norfair.
For a stage that's a much better CP, try Norfair.
TP
Smash Master
Check out my brilliant format in the OP. I have Who to CP this against AND I have If Pirate Ship and Norfair are banned, who to CP this against.
Still, I wouldn't CP this even if both those stage were out. Everything this stage can do, Brinstar, Delfino, and PS1 can do better.
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
I hate PS1 too...
I'd say 6/10
Falco, Marth and Lucario can all make their first move on frame 9 after our Gerudo.
Our Jab is the only attack (quake) that should be able to hit them, since it comes out at frame 8.
But they're all too short to be hit with a Jab (hurt box wize) while lying on the ground.
When you Gerudo them in a slight Down Hill, it takes at least +1 frame for them to reach the ground... They can now make their first move on frame 10 instead of frame 9, which means Dtilt is now garanteed since it comes out on frame 10.
When you Gerudo them in a slight Up Hill, it takes -1 frame for them to make their first move.
They can now move on frame 8 (same as our Jab) instead of frame 9.
And since they're on higher ground than usual, our Jab won't go over them and miss :]
I actually think it helps quite much.
Falco, Marth and Lucario can all make their first move on frame 9 after our Gerudo.
Our Jab is the only attack (
But they're all too short to be hit with a Jab (hurt box wize) while lying on the ground.
When you Gerudo them in a slight Down Hill, it takes at least +1 frame for them to reach the ground... They can now make their first move on frame 10 instead of frame 9, which means Dtilt is now garanteed since it comes out on frame 10.
When you Gerudo them in a slight Up Hill, it takes -1 frame for them to make their first move.
They can now move on frame 8 (same as our Jab) instead of frame 9.
And since they're on higher ground than usual, our Jab won't go over them and miss :]
Noobicidal
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,551
Weinner helped reinforce the importance of the tilts yesterday or the day before. Gerudo - dtilt can hit GANON of all people.
Tilting is sexy, just limit Thunderstorming a bit on Lylat.
Tilting is sexy, just limit Thunderstorming a bit on Lylat.
Yeah, but it has to tilt much more since ganon can normaly move on frame 8.
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
But, at the same time, landing gerudo becomes harder on Lylat.
Noobicidal
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,551
Why is that?
'Cause our baiting game (SH AC'd aerials) suffers?
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Yea, I'm kind of fuzzy on how it's harder to land.
EDIT: ...ah. There are always other ways to bait, it's not like lacking AC aerials some of the time affects the ability to bait that much.
Conspiricy
Smash Journeyman
Lylat...hmmm...
when the opponent is on the upwards tilt, you can hit a crouching kirby with a SH uair from the front.
That's all i got for now.
when the opponent is on the upwards tilt, you can hit a crouching kirby with a SH uair from the front.
That's all i got for now.
TP
Smash Master
Good stuff everyone. I'll update either tonight or tomorrow (who am I kidding, I'll update tomorrow). Feel free to post a recommendation for our next stage, but I won't consider it unless you also include a rating for Lylat or info on CPing and banning with Lylat.
Conspiricy
Smash Journeyman
CP against: fox, wolf...anyone with a precise recovery
Ban against: marth...anyone who can **** wiht those platforms better than us
rating: 5/10
come on, we need to do norfair.
Ban against: marth...anyone who can **** wiht those platforms better than us
rating: 5/10
come on, we need to do norfair.
Noobicidal
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,551
7/10 for Lylat, posted other relevant crap earlier.
I'd be interested in doing Castle Siege.
I'd be interested in doing Castle Siege.
:034:
Smash Hero
Lylat: 5/10
Ban: MK, if Rainbow Cruise is gone
CP: Wolf or Falco
I wouldn't mind getting some of that Halberd.
Ban: MK, if Rainbow Cruise is gone
CP: Wolf or Falco
I wouldn't mind getting some of that Halberd.
Conspiricy
Smash Journeyman
Oh, I'm not sure, but i think pika can't spam and camp as well here because of our ability to use the platforms and the tilting to avoid it.
but...then again, i suck. So if I'm wrong, please don't hate me.
but...then again, i suck. So if I'm wrong, please don't hate me.
TP
Smash Master
Norfair discussion begins now.
It's time to finally decide who goes to Pirate Ship and who goes to Norfair. Please be very extensive in the CP list this time.
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
First and foremost, Ike goes to Norfair as fast as possible. Possibly the only character that you DON'T want to CP to PS or Norfair is Olimar, and if you have to choose one for him, I'd say Norfair as well. With the platforms being the way they are, you can **** with his camping, his spacing, his grabbing, and everything else, too. The downside is that now you have a much harder time gimping him.
TP
Smash Master
I plan on giving this stage a 10/10. It has everything. It aids recovery a ton, you have great mobility because you choke to other ledges, it is hard to camp on this stage because your opponent can go above or below you so easily, Uair ***** here harder than on any other stage, choke followups are wonderful here because the platforms are small enough to limit their options, and there is lavaciding.
The only downside of this stage is that several other characters love it too. Don't take Jiggs, MK, or Link here, and I am sure there are others. Salty, Ike autowins on Pirate Ship. What are you talking about? It's referred to as "Ike Ship."
When this stage is legal (which is always in the Midwest, yay) it is my CP against about 30 characters, seriously.
The only downside of this stage is that several other characters love it too. Don't take Jiggs, MK, or Link here, and I am sure there are others. Salty, Ike autowins on Pirate Ship. What are you talking about? It's referred to as "Ike Ship."
When this stage is legal (which is always in the Midwest, yay) it is my CP against about 30 characters, seriously.
gantrain05
Smash Master
just don't take G&W there, actually, its probably better to just never play ganon vs G&W, he really can't even touch him lol.I plan on giving this stage a 10/10. It has everything. It aids recovery a ton, you have great mobility because you choke to other ledges, it is hard to camp on this stage because your opponent can go above or below you so easily, Uair ***** here harder than on any other stage, choke followups are wonderful here because the platforms are small enough to limit their options, and there is lavaciding.
The only downside of this stage is that several other characters love it too. Don't take Jiggs, MK, or Link here, and I am sure there are others. Salty, Ike autowins on Pirate Ship. What are you talking about? It's referred to as "Ike Ship."
When this stage is legal (which is always in the Midwest, yay) it is my CP against about 30 characters, seriously.
SuPeRbOoM
Smash Master
ganon ***** snake on norfair ***
TP
Smash Master
LOL. Hey Kosk, wanna give us a 3 minute explanation of how to beat Snake on Norfair?
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
You must be playing some other G&Ws. It's actually one of Ganon's better matchups.
gantrain05
Smash Master
lol you must be playin some really bad G&W then, because G&W just has to spam higher priority moves and its an auto win. and by higher priority moves, i mean all of them.
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
The sheer stupidity implicit in this statement makes me laugh. G&W is not MK. His moves have landing lag. They can be punished. And what with the way his roll works, G&W is highly susceptible to being chokechained, and then IDA'd for the kill. In contrast, G&W's smashes are slow and short-ranged. The only practical way he has of killing Gdorf is gimping, which is actually hard for him outside of the usual edgehogging. As for edgehogging, any decent Ganon will usually manage to outmaneuver edgehoogers.
TP
Smash Master
Don't derail the thread. Take it somewhere else, both of you.
SuPeRbOoM
Smash Master
all G&W needs is nair and turtle lol
yeah, I'll agree that GnW ***** Ganon, but it's regarded as a good matchup because they can't just mindlessly spam turtle and their high priority moves, like against Falcon/other characters with low priority.
by good matchup I mean a ganon of equal skill might win about 1/5 of the time.
To get back on topic though, should you take Snake to norfair? he can camp with grenades pretty spectacularly, and my snake friend always CP's it because it's hard to see them on the platforms, as well.
I agree with TP - this is a great Ganon counterpick for me.
however my question would be, does it benefit more Snake or Ganon?
but omg, DONT take a good peach there. FFFFFFFFFF
by good matchup I mean a ganon of equal skill might win about 1/5 of the time.
To get back on topic though, should you take Snake to norfair? he can camp with grenades pretty spectacularly, and my snake friend always CP's it because it's hard to see them on the platforms, as well.
I agree with TP - this is a great Ganon counterpick for me.
however my question would be, does it benefit more Snake or Ganon?
but omg, DONT take a good peach there. FFFFFFFFFF
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
I'd definitely say that taking Snake to Pirate Ship is a much better idea. It's much easier for him to play his trap game on the tiny ledges of Norfair, but he doesn't have that to work with on PS. In addition, considering that his tilts can pretty much take up a ledge by themselves, it's always better to avoid Norfair against him.
I was thinking that because of the multiple platforms that are on different elevations, the effectiveness of his tilts might be negated some because you can camp the platforms. Using them, you don't have to be at horizontal position with him 24/7, which is when his tilts really like to ****.
The enhanced trap game I would agree with, though.
The enhanced trap game I would agree with, though.
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
9 out of 10. This stage is good. We could safely move around platforms, camping here could be a problem, UAir and FAir do a great job from beneath a platform, and we all know the benefits of UTilt and Aerudo here.
thexsunrosered
Smash Lord
I'm gonna upload a vid to show how **** Norfair is. It's soooo good
weinner
Smash Apprentice
A full hop Uair/Bair from a lower platform on Norfair to the next one up autocancels the Uair/Bair. I thought that would be some nice information to know.
I would not want to take oli to norfair. I'd rather have somewhere where I have reliable gimps against him, because that is one of the only things that helps Ganon in the match up.
EDIT: Thought you were talking about stadium, not pirate ship, my bad >.>. Ganon benefits highly from the fact that you can just keep the opponent constantly above you. Throw in lavaciding, flat areas, and the harder gimps for the other opponent and you have a solid Ganon stage against quite a few people.
I wouldn't take a Marth to Norfair. His aerial game is way too good along with tons of up b shenanigans.
gantrain05
Smash Master
dont take peach to norfair, it won't be fun lol. well i guess norfair is actually a good stage for ganon, just not against some few characters, i'd say its a good bet to take DDD there? limits his CG and edgegaurding, keep him above u and **** with Uairs seems like a good idea.