Ganon Stage Discussion (Norfair)

[@HomE]

Um, quick question...what is this "bomb glitch"?

I don't know how it happens its only happened to me once, but once it happens anywhere near where the boxes drop is a constant bomb hitbox. its pretty sweet haha

 

[:034:]

You use the wind of the utilt to make an invisible bomb hitbox... Don't ask me how it works, it just does.

 

[TP]

In the one video of the bomb glitch I've seen, the Ganon uses Utilt to explode two bombs at once, neither of which hit Ganon. Someone try and replicate it please. It could be our main strategy there if we can control it.

 

[:034:]

I call on my right to be able to say something about previous stages. This time, Jungle Japes. The Klap Trap runs on a 10 second timer and is not random. So, basically, if you see the Klap Trap at 6:54, another one will pop up at 6:44, then 6:34, and so on.

 

[PhantomX]

Actually. The Klaptrap jumps on the right side of the stage at 7 seconds and on the left at 12, I believe.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Can anyone give a good insight on Smashville and how it affects Ganon because a few weeks ago I was able to beat a friend's Pika with my Ganon on this stage because I was able to win the match cause of flame choke mindgames and fresh Fair kills when in the air desipte using using projectiles thorought the match. Can anyone help?

 

[PhantomX]

Smashville is a small stage, so it's great to take campers here as it gives them less space to run around being ***s.

 

[Squirrely]

Wouldn't activating the bomb glitch on Green Greens be bad for Ganon competitively?

People could just projectiles through the wall of explosions which he couldn't cross.
And if the other player has a percentage of life advantage, they could just wait out the match since you couldn't get to them without dying.

And you don't often have the opportunity to pull off an u-tilt in a match in as small a stage as Green Greens.

Also, I'm pretty sure most vids I've seen of this glitch do not involove Ganon's u-tilt or even Ganon at all.

So I wouldn't even go down that path as a competitive strategy.

 

[TP]

I call on my right to be able to say something about previous stages. This time, Jungle Japes. The Klap Trap runs on a 10 second timer and is not random. So, basically, if you see the Klap Trap at 6:54, another one will pop up at 6:44, then 6:34, and so on.

Someone does not read my summaries.

 

[:034:]

Someone does not read my summaries.

Now I feel sort of stupid >:

 

[TP]

OK guys, I just did about a half hour of testing on Green Greens. I was unable to replicate the glitch even once, thus kicking it out of the summary I have yet to write. Ganon is COMPLETELY unable to lock anyone against the walls. Fthrow and Jab break the blocks if they are too close, and it is escapable otherwise. On the bright side, if you do a fast fall Dair along a column of blocks, the hitbox stays out for an insanely long time. We could use that to our advantage. If you choke the opponent on or near the blocks, they will have very few options, which is great.

The coolest thing I saw was the most realistic version yet of the Utilt cancel (or Volcancel as I like to call it (the move is called Volcano Kick)). If you are on the edge of a block (and for whatever reason it can't be in the top two rows) and you hold the control stick in the direction you face, you will fall off right before the kick happens. This does not work on regular ledges, sadly.

If you do a move while standing on the block and the move destroys that block, the end lag of the move is canceled. For us, this consists of Quake and Utilt. Other characters could use this fact much better than us, if they know about it.

It is definitely time to move on. Once we agree on a rating, we will. I think it should get 6/10. The walls help other characters more than us, but recovering isn't really an issue and the apples can helps us approach campers. You guys agree?

 

[Z1GMA]

You can lock the opponent with jab from 0% to like 35%.

 

[@HomE]

I say 6.5/10

NEXT STAGE

 

[PhantomX]

You could also just thunderstorm someone into whatever and do more damage than that on any stage. Green Greens is better suited for those that can abuse the explosives or camp the middle or infinite/lock people... and it's predominately banned nowadays anyway.

 

[Z1GMA]

Can we do Distant Planet, now?

 

[TP]

Can we do Distant Planet, now?

I have decided to ignore all stage requests so that they don't clutter up my thread.

Brinstar discussion begins now.​

Legal? Always

Discussion:

The blast zones on the sides are very close. This is a good thing. The uneven ground, however, is a bad thing. Less thunderstorming and less choke followups. Mobility gets wrecked by certain parts of the stage. The acid can aid Ganon's poor recovery. Somebody say something about Lavaciding. Also, somebody please test if Ganon falls faster when in fall special or just regular falling. It could help us decide when to use our Up B, if we know we can't recover without the help of the acid which is not there yet.

Ban: DK, Wario, maybe others

CP: idk

CP2: idk

Rating: 8/10

 

[PhantomX]

Remember to note that you can easily miss the edge when doing side-b and just go through ti and fall, so be cautious.

 

[Squirrely]

Brinstar is my favorite stage.

The only thing I don't enjoy about the stage is it's not flat. Everything else I love.

All the platforms are great for punishing with aerials.
The size of the stage caters to Ganon's lack of mobility and basically slows down the game tempo to something manageable.
Campers don't do well here.
If you don't land a recovering or otherwise aerial choke on someone on a platform, you can grab the edge below.
People with good recoveries can't exploit that advantage very well on this stage and Ganon can recover fine usually.
Choking people through the acid is too easy. Especially when all but the high plat gets covered in acid.
Acid certainly helps Ganon's predictable recovery. I often down-b into the acid to do a acid-induced flight of the Ganon and to switch up my recovery.
The tendon pillars extend moves such as d-air or f-smash or down-b.
F-air kills wicked early when you catch someone on a platform with it. It's like it always sweetspots there.
The tendon pillars also help against projectiles. And the gooey midsection stops Pikachu's lighting ball things.
And hardly no one else plays here so no one is familiar with the stage and its pro's/cons.

Legality: Always I think.

Ban against: I take everyone here, I wouldn't ban it against anyone, personally.

CP against: I don't think anyone does particularly poor here. But I'd bring anyone here if I feel they'd do better than me on Battlefield, Final Destination, Pirate Ship, Delfino or Norfair.

CP if norfair etc.: See above. I've had good luck here against pretty much everyone. Most recently I remember is against a ZSS who seriously called the fight gay because I stood behind a tendon thing until her armor parts were either gone or in my hand. <shrug>

Rating: 9.5/10
It's not the perfect stage for Ganon due to uneven ground, but I feel it's as close as it gets in this game without giving any other character a much bigger advantage on it than Ganondorf. Awesome stage.

 

[Superspright]

Brinstar is a great stage, because of lavaciding, and the ability to thwart campers. I can't really say too much more than what Squirrely said, but do not take ROB here. His laser can go straight through the tendons, and his top can jump around almost indefinitely on the lava which makes a jumping hitbox. I wouldn't take ROB to norfair either personally. Recovery isn't too important here, but ROB's laser can be especially annoying here.

 

[TP]

Guys, this is Brinstar. Not PS2, not Port Town, this is freaking Brinstar. Start discussing, since this is one of the most important stages to discuss.

 

[:034:]

I don't know **** about Brinstar. ;__; I'm here to learn.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I don't know **** about Brinstar. ;__; I'm here to learn.

This. Not really..

 

[@HomE]

I don't know **** about Brinstar. ;__; I'm here to learn.

Yea I didnt really want to comment on this stage because i kind of hate it with Ganon, but I'll give it a try...

The small platforms are actually really nice for Ganon (one of the only things I enjoy), they seems to be the perfect height for most his aerials (specifically U-air, B-air, and F-air). The higher middle platform is not the best, it seems a little to high for Ganon’s crappy jump (if I remember correctly), but if the lava is covering everything else it seems like a decent opportunity for some chainchoking(limiting the roll options). The lava choke is one of the most badass things Ganon can do, it just seems one thousand times easier to get a Lava choke on norfair, and for me anyway, its very difficult on this stage. The worst part about this stage for me in the fact that the floor is very uneven, I use Thunderstorming a lot for spacing moves, and it seems to limit my movement a lot (or at least make me think to hard about my movement). The part where the bombs can break away is annoying because I seem to get stuck in it and I don’t really see it giving Ganon and advantage in anyway. And then there are the blast zones… they are VERY close, and IMO that’s a good and a bad thing for Ganon, but more bad then good. Its hard for me to land power moves on this stage and Ganon can be KO’d from moves that should never KO him on other stages.

Well those are some of my thoughts about Brinstar sorry its not organized what so ever, maybe you can tell why I tend to keep my posts short -_-

EDIT: where is DAD?

 

[Squirrely]

DAD was floating in Pennsylvania away from a Wii last I heard, which was like a month ago.

Anyways, it seems to me like most people don't play this stage enough to comment much on it (like I surmised in my synopsis).

Move on?

 

[Noobicidal]

DAD was floating in Pennsylvania away from a Wii last I heard, which was like a month ago.

Anyways, it seems to me like most people don't play this stage enough to comment much on it (like I surmised in my synopsis).

Move on?

I can't comment on how effective Ganon is on Brinstar since I'd usually CP it with Jiggs.

She's a bit different from Ganon.

 

[@HomE]

Think we should move on to a new stage? no one has added anything for awile now...

 

[Noobicidal]

Well, TP isn't getting home until 9:00 Central, so we can't exactly change the stage quite yet.

 

[TP]

Yoshi's Island (Pipes) discussion begins now.​

We've reached the last legal Melee stage. I don't know **** about it, excpet it's legality status will be Rarely. Someone else start us off.

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

about the yellow square things in the center, can ganon effect them at all using sidb b? if he can he could probably get a ko, or ganoncide there

 

[PK-ow!]

We've reached the last legal Melee stage. I don't know **** about it, excpet it's legality status will be Rarely. Someone else start us off.

I'm going to test right now whether you can spike someone straight through the blocks in the middle.

... I can confirm he can't do jack to them with Choke. Although you should be able to kill people through the chasm if exactly the middle block is flipped.

EDIT: Okay, so, you can't spike people through solid blocks that I can tell with dair or Wizkick, although with dair hitbox data would confirm or deny it. It would just depend on whether you can get the block to take damage before the character gets out of hitlag. Wizkick is right out.

I confirmed you can use Flame Choke to deny people a ledge, although nothing stops them from jumping almost immediately. On my own, I can't tell if you have frame disadvantage or not if they do so.

As for Aerial Choke, I was unable to test if the opponent can jump in the same way. It is possible to shoot them through the middle block, but I simply can't handle the two controllers on my own to see if they can jump.

Also, I found you can use dtilt to hit the middle block without getting the others. Kinda nice.

 

[:034:]

This stage is legal in America?

...

Really?

 

[professor mgw]

using yoshi's island(melee) pipes are real useful.
take advantage of his dtilt.

 

[Noobicidal]

Yoshi's Island is great for Ganon. The boundaries are exceedingly small, which makes killing that much easier. Short-hopped Gerudos towards the slopes leads to an aerial choke for the entire duration of the move. F-tilt loses a bit of it's KO ability due to pipe/slope teching, but getting D-tilt and iDA in it's place is a fair trade due to the low ceiling. Several CG's get screwed over near the slopes, but D3 can still have his way with you. Blocks can mess with some camping tactics, but don't count on them.

Overall, I'd give it an 8/10 from personal experience.

 

[Z1GMA]

I never play on this stage for one reason... It's just plain boring.

 

[PK-ow!]

Edited my other post.

This stage is legal in America?

...

Really?

Why wouldn't it be?

 

[:034:]

Edited my other post.

Why wouldn't it be?

 

[Noobicidal]

Well, since it seems that no one appreciates this stage as much as I do, may I recommend that we go onto the next discussion?

 

[:034:]

Brinstar's section about who to CP it against is empty right now, so I just went to this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187501

Which told us to CP this against Bowser, Diddy, D3, R.O.B. and Sonic. Now, I know that the Sonic part is poopyface since gf2tw cp's me on Brinstar all the time (and makes it work too), but the others seem legit. I would also personally ban Brinny against Snake, but that's just me.

Since nobody else knows anything about Pipes, shall we just move on to a new stage?

 

[Noobicidal]

may I recommend that we go onto the next discussion?

shall we just move on to a new stage?

I'm seeing a bit of a theme here.

 

[:034:]

I'm seeing a bit of a theme here.

I'm seeing a park. Coincidence? I think not!!