TP
Smash Master
I agree with you on all of that except banning Brinstar against Snake. I would rather ban BF. Trust me, Snake is a nightmare on BF if he knows what he's doing.
I'll start the next stage soon.
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Ganon Stage Discussion (Norfair)
- Thread starter TP
- Start date
I'll start the next stage soon.
TP
Smash Master
Distant Planet discussion begins now.
Let's try to make this a very good and detailed discussion to make up for the last one. I promise we'll do an always legal stage next.
:034:
Smash Hero
I don't know much about Planet, but I do know to stay away from the hill if you're facing D3. Chaingrabs! Otherwise, you can stick on the bottom side of it and uair through the vine-y floor. The leaves bounce, which can mess up thunderstorming. Bulborbs... Eat you. With sauce.
I've had only one experience on Distant Planet with Ganondorf... and I liked it even less than FD, which is saying a lot.
I hate this map, i almost never play it. the worst thing is those three little platforms that when you stand on them sink ALLLMOST to the ground, i get stuck on them with huge clumsy G-dorf and get absolutly destroyed. i dont know how many times ive SD'd using Side-B to recover... plus walk offs... i dont just see much of an upside for Ganon, he seems to get combo'd very easily here.
:034:
Smash Hero
Nah, I'm talking about the stage. I'd save my declaration of hate for you for another thread.
Teronist09
Smash Journeyman
Legal? Often.
General Discussion:
I don't play this stage often (and since i picked it as my cp i've stopped playing brawl even slightly competetively), but I did a bunch of sets here once with my brother and I learned a few things. For one, Snake is a royal pain here. My brother isn't a campy snake, but I was getting seriously camped, and I one maybe 2 games total. The stage is incredibly conducive to camping, so it should be avoided vs anyone who can do so.
The stage layout allows for some easy ganoncides if you read your opponent correctly, but there's really not much going for you on this stage.
Ban against: anyone who can camp, specifically snake.
CP against: anyone who doesn't camp or have cgs, most likely.
CP if Norfair and P. Ship are banned: basically anywhere is probably better than here. I'd use it just for fun or
Rating: Most likely around 3-4. Maybe a 5.
General Discussion:
I don't play this stage often (and since i picked it as my cp i've stopped playing brawl even slightly competetively), but I did a bunch of sets here once with my brother and I learned a few things. For one, Snake is a royal pain here. My brother isn't a campy snake, but I was getting seriously camped, and I one maybe 2 games total. The stage is incredibly conducive to camping, so it should be avoided vs anyone who can do so.
The stage layout allows for some easy ganoncides if you read your opponent correctly, but there's really not much going for you on this stage.
Ban against: anyone who can camp, specifically snake.
CP against: anyone who doesn't camp or have cgs, most likely.
CP if Norfair and P. Ship are banned: basically anywhere is probably better than here. I'd use it just for fun or
Rating: Most likely around 3-4. Maybe a 5.
Squirrely
Smash Journeyman
I hate going to Distant Planet with Ganondorf.
Everyone does much better than him here.
The ramp on the left side is a chain grabbing death zone.
He can get camped to death easily.
The stupid leaves make it impossible to auto-cancel anything.
Basically the leaves make it difficult to do anything effective and the earthen ramp is a place you generally want to avoid.
The things I like about this map is the availability of projectiles for Ganon in the form of flower pellets and the fact that the stage can literally eat you and walk away if you so choose.
But everyone still does better here so it's a place I generally try to avoid. Nice scenery though.
Legality: Almost always I think.
Ban against: Anyone who would ban Rainbow Cruise imo. Get two crappy Ganon stages out of the way.
CP against: No one. I'm pretty sure everyone has an advantage over Ganon here. Don't tell the other boards. >.>
CP if Norfair etc...: No. Stay away from this place.
Rating: 1.5 out of 10
The Bulborb gets an 11 out of 10 though. Every stage needs one of those guys. Or an Icicle Mountain fish...
Everyone does much better than him here.
The ramp on the left side is a chain grabbing death zone.
He can get camped to death easily.
The stupid leaves make it impossible to auto-cancel anything.
Basically the leaves make it difficult to do anything effective and the earthen ramp is a place you generally want to avoid.
The things I like about this map is the availability of projectiles for Ganon in the form of flower pellets and the fact that the stage can literally eat you and walk away if you so choose.
But everyone still does better here so it's a place I generally try to avoid. Nice scenery though.
Legality: Almost always I think.
Ban against: Anyone who would ban Rainbow Cruise imo. Get two crappy Ganon stages out of the way.
CP against: No one. I'm pretty sure everyone has an advantage over Ganon here. Don't tell the other boards. >.>
CP if Norfair etc...: No. Stay away from this place.
Rating: 1.5 out of 10
The Bulborb gets an 11 out of 10 though. Every stage needs one of those guys. Or an Icicle Mountain fish...
This is a fun stage for Ganon.
* You have many nice and surprising WCK-spots.
* You can Utilt surf from the left part of the stage when the rain starts to fall.
* You can Aerudo-stall to the left, at the waterfall, and then DJ -> anything out of it.
* You can perform Flower Pill combos with Gerudo (Forced rising).
* Gerudo -> follow up, is 100% garanteed against ALL characters on the bigger part of the stage.
* You can work your way around (under) the stage and perform Uair-Sharking from the right to the left, without a too big risk of getting gimped.
... It truly is a fun stage.
Well, not as fun as BF, Smashville etc... But still.
* You have many nice and surprising WCK-spots.
* You can Utilt surf from the left part of the stage when the rain starts to fall.
* You can Aerudo-stall to the left, at the waterfall, and then DJ -> anything out of it.
* You can perform Flower Pill combos with Gerudo (Forced rising).
* Gerudo -> follow up, is 100% garanteed against ALL characters on the bigger part of the stage.
* You can work your way around (under) the stage and perform Uair-Sharking from the right to the left, without a too big risk of getting gimped.
... It truly is a fun stage.
Well, not as fun as BF, Smashville etc... But still.
Gamegenie222
Space Pheasant Dragon Tactician
Isn't this stage banned in some tourneys. It was at the tourny here in Nebraska last year.
:034:
Smash Hero
The "Flying Dutchman is too good" thread even though it doesn't exist?
TP
Smash Master
Delfino Plaza discussion begins now.
This is a very important stage, guys. I expect you all to put a lot of thought into your CP lists.
smashkng
Smash Lord
Ganon has easy time murder spiking someone in the water which happens very often. I think it's one his better stages.
:034:
Smash Hero
I-I'm not too late am I?!
Legal? Always
Ban against: D3?
CP against: Whoever you feel you can beat here
Delfino Plaza is a pretty good stage, lots of space, platforms that can really avoid campers, water spikes (down-b spike is a reliable option) and lots of variety. If one part doesn't work out for you, wait until the next part.
D3 can chaingrab you off the stage at some parts though, so you could ban it against him... Or you could not.
Really, I think everybody knows a lot about this stage, and either you like playing on it or you don't. I do, it's one of my favorite counterpicks.
Imma rate this
8/10
Legal? Always
Ban against: D3?
CP against: Whoever you feel you can beat here
Delfino Plaza is a pretty good stage, lots of space, platforms that can really avoid campers, water spikes (down-b spike is a reliable option) and lots of variety. If one part doesn't work out for you, wait until the next part.
D3 can chaingrab you off the stage at some parts though, so you could ban it against him... Or you could not.
Really, I think everybody knows a lot about this stage, and either you like playing on it or you don't. I do, it's one of my favorite counterpicks.
Imma rate this
8/10
Ant1
Smash Ace
Isn't Delfino Plaza a Dedede banned stage already? I just checked, in my state it is, but i don't know about other states. Seeming as it's already a D3 banned stage i'd say i'd ban it against... MK. It is his best stage is it not?
Personally i would never ban delfino when playing ganon though.
Delfino is one of ganon's better stages, if the other player bans norfair, u've lost ur stage advantages.
It's easy to spike people in this stage, it negates a degree of camping and when the stage changes to the pillar part, the ceiling is very low and makes for easy k.o's.
8/10 also
Personally i would never ban delfino when playing ganon though.
Delfino is one of ganon's better stages, if the other player bans norfair, u've lost ur stage advantages.
It's easy to spike people in this stage, it negates a degree of camping and when the stage changes to the pillar part, the ceiling is very low and makes for easy k.o's.
8/10 also
:034:
Smash Hero
It's a counterpick pretty much everywhere, even in my area it is.
TP
Smash Master
We don't ban by character here. Delfino is always legal. However, I would not even ban it against D3. Castle Seige is just as bad, but isn't a great stage most of the time like Delfino is. MK's best stage is easily Rainbow Cruise, though he does love Delfino.
Ant1
Smash Ace
.... what i meant is that Delfino Plaza is not allowed to be played if ur playing Dedede, due to the walk off parts. Castle siege is the same deal. Any stage with a walk off part is instantly banned against D3. meaning if ur playing D3 you are not allowed to play on those stages. It is too unfair to the other player. Sorry if i repeated myself, but i wan't to make it clear.
If American tournaments don't follow this logic then i don't know what else to say. Change ur rules i guess.
So considering it's already banned against Dedede, u've got nothing to fear playing this stage.
Don't ban it under any circumstances imo.
If American tournaments don't follow this logic then i don't know what else to say. Change ur rules i guess.
So considering it's already banned against Dedede, u've got nothing to fear playing this stage.
Don't ban it under any circumstances imo.
:034:
Smash Hero
That's actually a pretty good rule. But... a little weird as well. I don't think the American ruleset will include something like that.
Noobicidal
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,551
Up .
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
I personally think Lylat is one of Ganon's best stage.
I find it pretty funny how one gets random Gerudo Follow up Options all the time, due to the tilting.
One must think fast and decide what the frames allows you to do.
Sometimes, if I'm lucky, I hit them with a SOUR spotted Jab after the Gerudo, which causes a Forced get up
- Free Stomp
gantrain05
Smash Master
delfino, best ganon stage, lylats tilting messes with his recovery and thunderstorming too much to be helpful. yeah sometimes it does some good stuff for him but its gonna screw him over more often than not.
TP
Smash Master
We're reviving this after all? Alright.
I feel that Delfino hasn't gotten significant discussion, but I want to start a fresh stage so we can get some momentum in this thread, so...
...where "now" means "a few posts ago."
I feel that Delfino hasn't gotten significant discussion, but I want to start a fresh stage so we can get some momentum in this thread, so...
Lylat Cruise discussion begins now.
...where "now" means "a few posts ago."
gantrain05
Smash Master
well i guess lylat wouldn't be a terrible stage against characters like peach since it messes with her autocancels and ground floating, and fox/wolf don't do so hot there since it messes up their recovery pretty bad. but other than that i don't see much advantage to CPing lylat.
Noobicidal
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,551
Lylat is one of MY preferred counter picks (behind sexy Frigate). The platforms are low enough to stomp your opponents while on the bottom level. You can full hop and autocancel bair, uair, and dair when jumping from the stage floor onto the side platforms
The stage's tilting only messes you up if you AC dair the wrong way. The slope of the stage can screw over some projectiles and lead to easy grounded Aerudo's and unique Gerudo follow ups. Due to Brawl's silly ledge grab mechanics, you can uppercut anyone standing near the edge of the stage while recovering, which can help prevent nasty edge-guards. The side boundaries are relatively small, which makes killing easier.
Counter pick against projectile heavy characters, characters with precise recoveries, and those who prefer to kill off the top.
The stage's tilting only messes you up if you AC dair the wrong way. The slope of the stage can screw over some projectiles and lead to easy grounded Aerudo's and unique Gerudo follow ups. Due to Brawl's silly ledge grab mechanics, you can uppercut anyone standing near the edge of the stage while recovering, which can help prevent nasty edge-guards. The side boundaries are relatively small, which makes killing easier.
Counter pick against projectile heavy characters, characters with precise recoveries, and those who prefer to kill off the top.
PK-ow!
Smash Lord
Don't CP it against anyone with a good uptilt, or they'll **** you when you're on the platforms. <_<
Gerudo is really important here, I think, and learning to get ACs when it's tilted is extremely valuable.
Gerudo is really important here, I think, and learning to get ACs when it's tilted is extremely valuable.
TP
Smash Master
Don't forget to give a rating guys, and mention who (if anyone) to ban (DK) or CP this against. Keep in mind that CPing here means NOT CPing on Brinstar or Delfino.
:034:
Smash Hero
You can either **** or get ***** on here. Depends on who's on the platforms. Stay off those platforms and force your opponent up there, then uair ****. BUT, your failcovery is even worse here, so I usually never ever CP this. Also, it tilts. Which is gay.
5/10 because of the tilting and bad edges.
5/10 because of the tilting and bad edges.
TP
Smash Master
Hey guys, here's an idea: let's resurrect a thread and then immediately kill it again.
Breezy
Smash Ace
I like that idea!!
*Doesn't post again*
*Doesn't post again*
Noobicidal
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,551
At least you don't have to wait NINE DAYS between posts like in the Jigglypuff stage discussion. It's not dead, it's just that no one enjoys Lylat besides myself it seems.Hey guys, here's an idea: let's resurrect a thread and then immediately kill it again.
:034:
Smash Hero
There's just not much to say about the stage. It tilts, screws up your auto-cancels, messes up yours (and others') recovery. On the flipside, it blocks projectiles and the platforms can either get you ***** or you can ****. Uair is amazing.
The stage is wide enough to give you space to retreat, but getting forced to the edge is a much bigger problem than on most other stages, since the edges are so crappy. The ceiling is relatively high, it's certainly no Final Destination, but it's higher than Battlefield.
I'd recommend CP'ing against characters with less than stellar recoveries. Unfortunately, a lot of other people feel the same - and Ganondorf has the perfectly gimpable recovery for it. I'd recommend a ban against at least MK, unless you feel very comfortable on this stage or you'd rather ban something else instead. A possible CP is Falco, lasers are less effective and a relatively bad recovery is also present. However, he can gimp you harder on this stage.
Yeah, that's all I got.
The stage is wide enough to give you space to retreat, but getting forced to the edge is a much bigger problem than on most other stages, since the edges are so crappy. The ceiling is relatively high, it's certainly no Final Destination, but it's higher than Battlefield.
I'd recommend CP'ing against characters with less than stellar recoveries. Unfortunately, a lot of other people feel the same - and Ganondorf has the perfectly gimpable recovery for it. I'd recommend a ban against at least MK, unless you feel very comfortable on this stage or you'd rather ban something else instead. A possible CP is Falco, lasers are less effective and a relatively bad recovery is also present. However, he can gimp you harder on this stage.
Yeah, that's all I got.
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Not much but, staled UAirs do a wonderful job chaining on this stage, the opponent will most likely be sent to one of the three platforms, thanks to UAirs "hard" horizontal knockback, that's when you could tech with another UAir.
TP
Smash Master
FD, Rainbow Cruise is always legal in the States, we are definitely not banning this vs MK. Concerning Falco, Lucario, and Marth: is this really a better stage than Brinstar, Delfino, and PS1? I doubt it, except perhaps against Lucario. Z1GMA and Kalm, what rating would you give this stage? Is there anyone we need to ban this against? (Answer is yes: DK)
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Wait, are you referring to Rainbow Cruise or Lylat Cruise?FD, Rainbow Cruise is always legal in the States, we are definitely not banning this vs MK. Concerning Falco, Lucario, and Marth: is this really a better stage than Brinstar, Delfino, and PS1? I doubt it, except perhaps against Lucario. Z1GMA and Kalm, what rating would you give this stage? Is there anyone we need to ban this against? (Answer is yes: DK)
TP
Smash Master
Lylat for everything after the first half of the first sentence.