Gamer's Edge - SC/NC Brawl Weeklies - next: nevar

MusicalMike · Jan 3, 2009

Guys, things like this shouldn't break out. As a community we can't be squaring off like this with any hope that it will do anyone any good. Let me throw in a couple of suggestions.
1. Settle all brawl related problems with brawl. That being said
-
Sushi, we will play again Jan 30th, and I will attempt to beat you with Peach. I'm going to study the matchup like a beast so that when we play I'll know MK like the back of my hand. If I win, it hints that any mafch can we won with enough dedication and practice. If I get close it will prove the same thing. (I will consider "close " getting you down to a stock.). This match is also nothing personal as it is a demonstration. If I get ***** it will simply confirm what many believe that MK is too good =p. Its a win win situation. If you lose, you prove that MK can be beaten by one who knows the match up well enough. If you win, you beat my peach again, and further prove my point that SC needs more top tier practice. I'll even make it a money match if you'd like to put pressure on the game to mimic a tournament atmosphere.

Devin- Don't let MK get to you man. Consider that nobody in SC ever uses MK in tournaments, so we have little Exp against him. Is it not only natural then that we would lose to a skilled player using a foreign character? Also consider that it is no coincidence that Dr.PP, a man with the most MK Exp, performed the best against Sushi. Sushi's character does not make him as good as he makes the character. I am confident that Sushi could place well/win tournaments with other top tiers, as it was more than evident from my matches that he is a brawler who knows what he's doing.

Nobody likes fighting MK Devin, but we must cope with it, as it will not go away until (and if) a hard ban is instilled. The guy plays to win man, can you honestly then blame him for using a winning character?

zCasanova · Jan 3, 2009

I come out looking like the bad guy because I'm pro-MK ban—it isn't a disease, it isn't a terrible thing. Sushi attacked me because I constantly voice my opinion on the matter, nowhere prior to him telling me that I lost solely due to match-up inexperience did I belittle him in anyway. Even after being called a noob, I still simply defended the pro-ban position—he just took things way too personally for some reason and continued to criticize me as a player.

But, what's done is done. This isn't Melee, the player doesn't make the character anymore—it's vice-versa nowadays.

MusicalMike · Jan 3, 2009

zCasanova said:
I come out looking like the bad guy because I'm pro-MK ban—it isn't a disease, it isn't a terrible thing. Sushi attacked me because I constantly voice my opinion on the matter, nowhere prior to him telling me that I lost solely due to match-up inexperience did I belittle him in anyway. Even after being called a noob, I still simply defended the pro-ban position—he just took things way too personally for some reason and continued to criticize me as a player.

But, what's done is done. This isn't Melee, the player doesn't make the character anymore—it's vice-versa nowadays.

You may not have intended it, perhaps he felt attacked upon you attacking his main? Based on posts in this thread, it appears as though he felt he had to defend himself against the proposed statement that he only wins due to being MK.

Now I'll be honest- I'm indecisive bout the Mk ban. I know Meta is top tier, but really, he does have weaknesses. The point though is that MK ISN'T banned, so we gotta deal with him. And honestly, match up experience paired with stage CPs could mean victory against him.

And I don't think you're a noob or a bad guy. You're frustrated with MK, which is understandable.

Lareit · Jan 3, 2009

Kidd 01 said:
I got it.

Main-Peach
2nd-GAW
3rd- DK

Peach can handle many characters. Hard matchups- MK/GAW/Falco/Toonlink.

GAW- Can handle MK/GAW/Falco/TL. Has issues against ROB/Snake/ people that hit hard and out range him. I can use peach for those guys.

DK- Is heavy, and can beat snake/MK apparently. Has trouble against gaw (use gaw), ICs (use Peach), olimar (peach), diddy (peach), and TL (GAW).

Next tournament, I'm gonna use these guys to give GAW/DK Exp. We might as well experiment since roughly the same crowd shows up everytime ( i mean this in a good way).

Dk is one of the 4 Chr's I occasionally dabble in. He's very easy to be functional with and honestly I'm not sure how to move beyond the functional level besides maybe studying the exact science behind Donkey Punch Super Armor to use it to it's maximum. So that said, using him as a Snake/MK counter is probally harder to do then his close matchup might lead.

You should also use peach in the tournament. Plenty of time for matchup experiance in friendlies after.

zCasanova · Jan 3, 2009

Kidd 01 said:
And honestly, match up experience paired with stage CPs could mean victory against him.

There are no direct CPs of any sort against MK—stage or character—and PP's extensive MK match-up experience only lead to him having to CP with MK.

The point is, when no stage CPs exist for a character, and the only viable character CP is himself... that's just screams broken, and even then, it isn't a true CP, because that simply resets the match-up to even.

All this does is pushes everyone to play MK, and as Adam's said, why would you bother learning anyone else, when all you need is MK? After all, the situation is the absolute reverse for him, he's a CP to everyone.

If that doesn't call for a ban-hammer, I don't know what does.

Just like Akuma had the double-air fireball, MK has the b-button.

Sushi-Man · Jan 3, 2009

-Sorry Devin that I attacked you like that. I just felt a bit insulted that people were thinking I wasn't skilled at all just b/c I use mk. We cool?

-Mk's worst match-up is snake. But snake is not a hard counter (45:55). Apart from that, falco, bowser, lucario, yoshi, and dk are probably (55:45) and everyone else is 60:40.

zCasanova · Jan 3, 2009

It's a game, no worries.

I'm uploading ~ 20 videos to YouTube right now, glad you guys learned how to hit the record button.

Edit: If I could record in a resolution that was just a LITTLE bit bigger, we'd have HD brawl videos

kackamee · Jan 3, 2009

I can't even beat Bo's MK....And Yoshi is my freggin secondary and he is considered to be one of the best CP's agaisnt MK. MK is just wayyyyyy too good. I really REALLLLY dislike picking chars other than IC's, I don't mind picking Yoshi cuz he's cool like that. But there is really no way to beat an MK that knows what he/she is doing.

The Director · Jan 3, 2009

Kidd 01 said:
Nobody likes fighting MK Devin, but we must cope with it

I don't mind fighting MK. A good DK player can toss MK around easier than 90% of the cast. Even a skilled MK player like Sushi is fun to play. Even tho he'd probably win it would still be close, I think.

Speaking of Sushi WTF how come I didn't play you Thursday? WTF, how come I didn't play Kidd or PP or any of the other non regulars? You guys suck.

Lareit said:
I'm not sure how to move beyond the functional level besides maybe studying the exact science behind Donkey Punch Super Armor to use it to it's maximum.

The super armor is such a great defense tactic. Take a look at the match I had with Crio on Corneria where I canceled out his PK Thunder. Plus all the other ridiculous things I do with it.

As for the DK/Snake matchup, it's def. harder for DK than the MK matchup. I still think that DK's not as good against Snake than everybody thinks he is simply because of his size.

zCasanova · Jan 3, 2009

A lot of the match-up ratios in the character threads are completely biased, making them almost irrevelant when it comes to higher level play. That, combined with the fact that most of them haven't been updated in months, should keep people from using them as excuses/supporting arguments.

Have you guys seen Ankoku's new ranking list? A lot of stuff's changed, Falco's two now, Marth's ninth, three spots above Sonic (JMan), and Falcon's nineteenth... wild.

MK's still at the top, however.

Ryanarius · Jan 3, 2009

new ranking list is crazy. Pit's like 24th... so I guess really I'm the low tier hero.

zCasanova · Jan 3, 2009

That's what it looks like.

I like the ranking list better than the tier list, it puts aside assumptions based on the old match-up ratio data and shows raw results.

I like number crunching.

ptown · Jan 3, 2009

you guys are the new low tier heroes.

haha.

zCasanova · Jan 3, 2009

Mega_$m@sh · Jan 3, 2009

Ok I have been gone for a long time! - And With in the next few weeks I'll become a GE regular promise lolz

Sushi-Man · Jan 3, 2009

-Joe: We gotta play next time. I really need to play agasinst a good dk to improve my game
-Don't take the new Ankoku ranking list too seriously. Ankoku even said that he compiled very few tournament results so the previous one is more signifcant. He even said that in the beginning, falco was beating mk in tournament rankings so he was considering not posting the ranking list!

Mega_$m@sh · Jan 3, 2009

Anyone know what happen to Ali and Peter? Also, how many people on average show up now.....

JMan8891 · Jan 3, 2009

GOOD SHIZ DEV!!! Thx

@ Joe:R2 1st stock ****!!! lol, the bout 5 hits later, you returned the favor, lol

Snap(803) · Jan 3, 2009

devin, are you recording at judgement?

mr.fizwidget · Jan 3, 2009

i usually dont read these threads, but couldnt stop reading the last 6-7 pages.....interesting stuff
although the controversy has somewhat died off, which is good, here are my thoughts

sushi has/needs tough skin
sushi is way better than i thought
everyone should appreciate a good mk in these parts because the "soft ban", although true, hinders nc/sc oss competition.

zCasanova · Jan 3, 2009

Snap(803) said:
devin, are you recording at judgement?

Yeah, I'm recording there and at Joe's this weekend.

Ryanarius · Jan 3, 2009

zCasanova said:
Yeah, I'm recording there and at Joe's this weekend.

Is joe's tournament this weekend? I haven't been able to find any info on it.

Lareit · Jan 3, 2009

Ryanarius said:
Is joe's tournament this weekend? I haven't been able to find any info on it.

the 10th. It's more a smash fest Ryan, i'd not recommend a 4-5hour drive for it as the rule's are odd and the turnout likely will just be GE+a few nc people.

zCasanova · Jan 3, 2009

Lareit said:
the 10th. It's more a smash fest Ryan, i'd not recommend a 4-5hour drive for it as the rule's are odd and the turnout likely will just be GE+a few nc people.

Yeah, it isn't so much a Smash tournament as it is a party... with Smash?

and drugs and alcohol

joseph

The Director · Jan 3, 2009

zCasanova said:
Yeah, it isn't so much a Smash tournament as it is a party... with Smash?

and drugs and alcohol

joseph

You got it.

NO LITTLE KIDS.

Lareit · Jan 3, 2009

The Director said:
You got it.

NO LITTLE KIDS.

So much for payton.

Criosphinx · Jan 3, 2009

Lareit said:
So much for payton.

osnap.

we all know he's a 42 year old robot.

JMan8891 · Jan 3, 2009

40-Year-Old-Virgin:
"You know when your grabbing a ***** and it feels like... a bag of sand".....

Lets smoke and get drunk, lol

Pey-tun is too cool, he fets that bi unless its a R Rated Smashfest.

@Adam: Im riding w/you!!! and wat r teh fees again???

Lareit · Jan 3, 2009

Unrelated to Joe's tournament.

Starting next week.

Lylat, Delfino, Pokemon Stadium removed from Neutral List. Moved to counter pick.

Neutrals will consist of

Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island
Smashville.

JMan8891 · Jan 3, 2009

Why?? but is that cool on sat Adam?? plus how much do i need??

zCasanova · Jan 3, 2009

Lareit said:
Unrelated to Joe's tournament.

Starting next week.

Lylat, Delfino, Pokemon Stadium removed from Neutral List. Moved to counter pick.

Neutrals will consist of

Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island
Smashville.

I've been wanting to do that for weeks.

Updating OP.

Lareit · Jan 4, 2009

JMan8891 said:
Why?? but is that cool on sat Adam?? plus how much do i need??

Because it's been necessary to do for weeks.

It's a shame, Delfino and Pokemon Stadium(minus windmill) are great falcon levels. I know you're partial to Pokemon yourself, but it's necessary to refine our tournament.

And of course I'm giving you a ride. I thought we agreed on that last thurs.

MusicalMike · Jan 4, 2009

zCasanova said:
There are no direct CPs of any sort against MK—stage or character—and PP's extensive MK match-up experience only lead to him having to CP with MK.

The point is, when no stage CPs exist for a character, and the only viable character CP is himself... that's just screams broken, and even then, it isn't a true CP, because that simply resets the match-up to even.

All this does is pushes everyone to play MK, and as Adam's said, why would you bother learning anyone else, when all you need is MK? After all, the situation is the absolute reverse for him, he's a CP to everyone.

If that doesn't call for a ban-hammer, I don't know what does.

Just like Akuma had the double-air fireball, MK has the b-button.

You can win without counterpicking. MK has weaknesses. He is a beatable character. I will attempt to prove this at Judgement. If not, lol and call me a fool. It's nothing personal, I just think that people aren't doing enough to stop him. I've asked many people the following question-

"Do you practice hard against the MK matchup?"

And honestly, I've yet to get an answer from anyone that has said "Yes, I've practiced hard against this match up so I know what to do.". Generally what I see (and not in SC but everywhere) are people just dropping the flag before the fight is over. Most people DON'T know what to do against MK. So I'm going to do just that. I'm going to go out of my way to learn Peach V. MK inside and out. Then, with all this preparation I'm making, we will see if it makes any difference.

Besides, it's early in the metagame. We know he's top tier, but ban worthy?

Lareit · Jan 4, 2009

Kidd 01 said:
You can win without counterpicking. MK has weaknesses. He is a beatable character. I will attempt to prove this at Judgement. If not, lol and call me a fool. It's nothing personal, I just think that people aren't doing enough to stop him. I've asked many people the following question-

"Do you practice hard against the MK matchup?"

And honestly, I've yet to get an answer from anyone that has said "Yes, I've practiced hard against this match up so I know what to do.". Generally what I see (and not in SC but everywhere) are people just dropping the flag before the fight is over. Most people DON'T know what to do against MK. So I'm going to do just that. I'm going to go out of my way to learn Peach V. MK inside and out. Then, with all this preparation I'm making, we will see if it makes any difference.

Besides, it's early in the metagame. We know he's top tier, but ban worthy?

As Falcon I know what to do against Meta Knight

Up Tilt, Falcon Kick and Down Tilt to stop the tornado. Up B early to prevent edge guarding and to catch him on the edge.

Ask Sushi. I managed to get him to the last stock twice by abusing that stuff.....granted he was only at like 30% on his last stock each time......

And then there was the time he gimped me 3 times in a row....**** nearly got 3 stocked......

zCasanova · Jan 4, 2009

Not arguing about MK anymore, he's broken.

However, I do need a partner for Joe's tournament this weekend. Anyone who doesn't have one, hit me up

MusicalMike · Jan 4, 2009

I'm such a goofball =p.

I am looking for teams for judgement. =0

JMan8891 · Jan 4, 2009

I kinnda threw it out and didn't get an answer (kinnda demanded, in hindsight, t'was a bit rude, sorry)

But i plan on doing only dubz (lest we do get 1st/second to pay my singles) so i can afford Joe's smashfest. Which is what!!! I have no idea. Singles/dubz 5??? Door fee??

Criosphinx · Jan 4, 2009

lol. I just looked at the OP.

Green Hill. Distant Planet, Onett, and Pipes should all be removed from the CP list.

Edit: I'll team with you devin.

JMan8891 · Jan 4, 2009

"The fight is on!"

zCasanova · Jan 4, 2009

K, we can team.

I'll update the OP again.

@Justin--Joe's fees are the same as the ones at GE.

Gamer's Edge - SC/NC Brawl Weeklies - next: nevar

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