5 MK's.
Joe went MK against Devin.
5 MK's.
We used to go months without Metaknight. It's time for gamers edge to ban him.
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Gamer's Edge - SC/NC Brawl Weeklies - next: nevar
- Thread starter zCasanova
- Start date
Joe went MK against Devin.
5 MK's.
We used to go months without Metaknight. It's time for gamers edge to ban him.
Ryanarius
Smash Journeyman
If only there was some way to select a higher tiered character...
I'm just saying maybe you guys should try better characters.
edit: or mk could be banned that would work to.
zCasanova
Smash Lord
What fun would it be if we all played MK?
That kind of ruins the diversity of the game--atleast for now, SC is MK-free.
However...
Any of the GE regulars could pick him up tonight and win next week's tournament by crutching on him--with only one week's worth of practice.
That's both gay and tempting at the same time.
He's broken beyond anything other than a ban.
That kind of ruins the diversity of the game--atleast for now, SC is MK-free.
However...
Any of the GE regulars could pick him up tonight and win next week's tournament by crutching on him--with only one week's worth of practice.
That's both gay and tempting at the same time.
He's broken beyond anything other than a ban.
Ryanarius
Smash Journeyman
they don't need to pick up mk. Just some of the low tier players would really benefit from a solid secondary.
The theory is though, Ryan, why should I pick up anyone other then Meta Knight.
No bad matchups. Ease of use.
If i'm going to drop a low tier for a high tier, in order to win more, I may as well go for the chr that will allow me to win the most.
zCasanova
Smash Lord
Sadly, SC Smash sucks and as far as a community goes, we're all there is.
Even more sad, is the fact that the more we work to make our community grow, the more dominant MK is going to become—just like he has in every other state.
Right now, at GE, there is no SC MK-player, and I'd be willing to bet that's how it will stay. Most of the players here are above crutching on MK for competitive play.
However, with us hosting bigger and bigger tournaments, other states are going to begin attending, and that's when MK becomes a problem—for no other reason than him being broken to hell.
They don't need new characters, he needs to be banned. MK drives players to play MK, he is his only counterpick—Sushi and PP proved this last night.
Even more sad, is the fact that the more we work to make our community grow, the more dominant MK is going to become—just like he has in every other state.
Right now, at GE, there is no SC MK-player, and I'd be willing to bet that's how it will stay. Most of the players here are above crutching on MK for competitive play.
However, with us hosting bigger and bigger tournaments, other states are going to begin attending, and that's when MK becomes a problem—for no other reason than him being broken to hell.
They don't need new characters, he needs to be banned. MK drives players to play MK, he is his only counterpick—Sushi and PP proved this last night.
Sushi-Man
Smash Ace
@Devin: Whether you like to admit or not, you suck at the mk match-up. I always 2-3 stock you when you are using characters that almost even or even with mk (45:55 Marth/DDD and Falco 50:50). You said you lost to Phil's mk. That doesn't prove that mk is broken. That proves that you have no idea what to do against mk. The saddest part is that you just quit when you losing. When I am beating you with mk, you just surrender instead of trying to learn the match-up. The most ironic thing is that Adam who uses CF gives me the hardest challenge and always takes me to the last stock. Adam proves that he knows the match-up well and stands a chance against mk who has 70:30 advantage against him. So instead of just complaining, learn the match-up and don't just surrender.
Meta has an 80/20 or 85/15 over Falcon : (
stingers
Smash Obsessed
yeah Sushi is our only MK and he chills with all the SC bros anyway
Ryanarius
Smash Journeyman
those numbers don't look right at all to me. I could believe the marth matchup but ddd doesn't have a chaingrab or air game against mk. For falco again falco doesn't have his chaingrab and I'm pretty sure that falco's hardest matchup is mk. I could be wrong.
@lareit: Best reasons to pick someone other than mk is you don't like mk playstyle, just mk in general or you want respect for winning but also a better shot at winning. Or you don't want to pick up a character just for that character to be banned. You guys would destroy with better characters thats really all I want to point out. If you feel that better character should be mk well you'll destroy more although with less respect.
Sushi-Man
Smash Ace
I thought he was from SC cause he post in here alot.
BULL on 55:45 MK/Marth! It was 65-35, then dropped to 60:40. I could see either one.
Sushi, did you not see what happens when you used Snake (a character some people believes goes even with and even counters MK) against me? I 2-stocked you. Is that a fair assessment of skill? By what you just used to compare yourself and Devin, it is. But that's not how these discussions work.
MK is above Falco, including in their matchup. MK boards are ******** and should be ignored, so I don't know why you're spouting their knowledge like it's fact either.
Look:
MK vs Marth
MK:
-longer Dtilt, Marth loses his great frame trap
-better gimping abilities: ***** Marth's mediocre recovery
-best recovery in the game: Marth can't beat out glide attack among other things
-better offense and defense than Marth
offense: longer Dtilt, Ftilt outranges all but Fsmash, and dash attack and dash grab are ridiculously fast.
defense: see above, but now with super retreating Fair and shieldcamping prowess.
Need I continue?
This is just one matchup where Meta Knight completely outclasses his opponent. If you want me to, I'll take on the task of proving to you why each and every one of the top tiers (Snake will be the hardest) can fall to MK with little to no trouble.
Sushi, did you not see what happens when you used Snake (a character some people believes goes even with and even counters MK) against me? I 2-stocked you. Is that a fair assessment of skill? By what you just used to compare yourself and Devin, it is. But that's not how these discussions work.
MK is above Falco, including in their matchup. MK boards are ******** and should be ignored, so I don't know why you're spouting their knowledge like it's fact either.
Look:
MK vs Marth
MK:
-longer Dtilt, Marth loses his great frame trap
-better gimping abilities: ***** Marth's mediocre recovery
-best recovery in the game: Marth can't beat out glide attack among other things
-better offense and defense than Marth
offense: longer Dtilt, Ftilt outranges all but Fsmash, and dash attack and dash grab are ridiculously fast.
defense: see above, but now with super retreating Fair and shieldcamping prowess.
Need I continue?
This is just one matchup where Meta Knight completely outclasses his opponent. If you want me to, I'll take on the task of proving to you why each and every one of the top tiers (Snake will be the hardest) can fall to MK with little to no trouble.
Sushi-Man
Smash Ace
PP: Of course I wouldn't do as well with snake. I played tons more with mk and a lot more experience with him. And saying that the everyone on the mk boards are ******** and you are more knowledgeable than them is rather ignorant. Look at the falco board : http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167202 . They also say the match-up is 50:50. And 60:40 means that mk has a slight advantage over marth. That means I should barely be beating you. However, from yesterdays matches I beat you by a good margin (I was in my last stock but had very low percentages). And also, you only stated the the advantages that mk has on marth but not vice versa (grab release, superior range from fair). Besides, some of the information is wrong, such as "Marth can't beat glide attack among other things." Marth has a very easy way to tackle glide attack. Just ask Peter. I stopped gliding at at all b/c he always punished me for it.
MK has atleast a 60/40 over DDD if not more(I vote more due to fatties getting ***** by whornado) and the fact DDD's strengths are undone by Meta(Bair wall recovery gimps/chaingrab).
The Mk/Falco match up is fairly close though...untill you look at how easy Falco gets gimped and how easily MK gimps.
And yeah MK/Marth is atleast 60/40 in MK's favor.
@Ryan. The thing is Meta Knights playstyle is enjoyable. He's fluid, quick, mobile and powerful. I simply can't stand playing such an honorless character.
I'm not saying I know more, I'm saying the MK boards have it the easiest, so they choose not to do as thorough of a job on their analysis as they would if they weren't god tier.
That Falco thread wasn't very well done either....
60:40 is nearly complete ****. 65:35 matchups should basically never be lost in tournaments. 60:40 means I should maybe take a game off of you. Maybe. As I have no above average MK experience (on top of that, campy MK experience) of course I would only perform that way.
Grab release to Fair? Woo....
Superior Fair range? I may outrange yours by a few pixels, but it's negligible when your Fair comes out SO MUCH FASTER, and then when I try to use mine I get Ftilted or Faired anyway.
How are you gonna say I can't beat glide attack and then not tell me how it's possible? That's an invalid arguement.
That Falco thread wasn't very well done either....
60:40 is nearly complete ****. 65:35 matchups should basically never be lost in tournaments. 60:40 means I should maybe take a game off of you. Maybe. As I have no above average MK experience (on top of that, campy MK experience) of course I would only perform that way.
Grab release to Fair? Woo....
Superior Fair range? I may outrange yours by a few pixels, but it's negligible when your Fair comes out SO MUCH FASTER, and then when I try to use mine I get Ftilted or Faired anyway.
How are you gonna say I can't beat glide attack and then not tell me how it's possible? That's an invalid arguement.
Grab releases on MK are silly. Grabbing metaknights should be a rare event.
Hence my "woo..." lol.
Sushi-Man
Smash Ace
PP: Marth and MK's fair both come out in 4 frames. So yes, you have to space your fair really well but thats the point. As for the glide attack, just up-b out of it. The range and invincibility will always make me take damage and leave you safe. Peter and Forte did that to me all the time. That is why I never glide attack against them. 45:55 - 55:45 is considered even so 60:40 is considered a slight advantage. I almost 2 stocked you on those matches anyways. I barely had 10 % on my mk. That does not represent a 60:40 match-up.
I can't believe you are making experience johns. Your little brother mains mk and you probably play with him all the time. You have gone to a bunch more tournaments than I have and played much more people than I have. I have only gone to GE and play n trade tournaments.
You can''t just say every character board has a bad/incorrect match-up thread. A bunch of people have come to a consensus that the match-up is even so the match-up is most likely even.
I can't believe you are making experience johns. Your little brother mains mk and you probably play with him all the time. You have gone to a bunch more tournaments than I have and played much more people than I have. I have only gone to GE and play n trade tournaments.
You can''t just say every character board has a bad/incorrect match-up thread. A bunch of people have come to a consensus that the match-up is even so the match-up is most likely even.
Is mine a multi-hit move that ends that quickly? No.
A member of the MBR has told us that you can't up-B OOS if MK glide attacks properly. You must be doing it wrong.
I'm now annoyed at matchup ratios because they're so arbitrary. Skipping that.
I can't believe you can't understand that my brother is 12, hates Brawl, and almost never plays.
I can't believe you don't know that you're the hardest MK I've ever played.
I CAN'T BELIEVE you didn't know MK is soft banned in the south because he's broken.
I can't believe you didn't listen when I told you you're the hardest MK I've ever played against.
I can't believe you didn't know that your playstyle is sooooo different form every other MK in existence that there's no way I could study it properly.
I can't believe you didn't take it into account that I began to learn the matchup and almost won on the last match we had.
Why not assume that? There's no order, no discussion of raw data, no real consensus based on discussion among leading players.
It. Is. Not. Even.
A member of the MBR has told us that you can't up-B OOS if MK glide attacks properly. You must be doing it wrong.
I'm now annoyed at matchup ratios because they're so arbitrary. Skipping that.
I can't believe you can't understand that my brother is 12, hates Brawl, and almost never plays.
I can't believe you don't know that you're the hardest MK I've ever played.
I CAN'T BELIEVE you didn't know MK is soft banned in the south because he's broken.
I can't believe you didn't listen when I told you you're the hardest MK I've ever played against.
I can't believe you didn't know that your playstyle is sooooo different form every other MK in existence that there's no way I could study it properly.
I can't believe you didn't take it into account that I began to learn the matchup and almost won on the last match we had.
Why not assume that? There's no order, no discussion of raw data, no real consensus based on discussion among leading players.
It. Is. Not. Even.
I wasn't aware MK was soft banned in the south.
On this site, I've heard soft-banned described as more of an understood ban. Like a pact of honor, and to use Meta Knight is legal, but it's kinda frowned upon.
Criosphinx
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2008
- Messages
- 1,915
Soft ban =/= official. It's more of a player choice thing.
And honestly, the people who complain about Sushi using MK are using the supposed superiority of the character as a crutch for their own inability to overcome an obstacle.
I am not saying that MK is not overpowered. By all means, he should be banned in my eyes. However, it is the true test of a professional gamers mettle to challenge situations, and achieve victory. If you can't do that, then you adjust your strategy, or get better. It's simple. Those are the only two options.
Honestly, I fully agree with the people on the side of proclaiming MK is unfair. But it is truly inane to sleight the player for it. That is just asinine.
But this conversation is making me laugh.
Sushi-Man
Smash Ace
PP: Not up-b out of shield, just up-b. When I am approaching you with glide attack, just up-b. And even f-smash has more range than glide attack so if you space it properly you can tipper f-smash me.
Marth's fair is no doubt better than mk's fair. Yours has more killing potential, priority, range,, you can do 2 in one short hop, it comes out at the same time but Marth's fair has a faster cooldown lag. That fact that it hits 3 times makes it worse since it can be smash DIed out of.
I am not arguing that it is even. I understand that mk has an advantage, but not as big as you are insinuating it to be. But the "I can't believe . . ." stuff are just johns. I can say the same thing about your marth as well (hardest Marth I have ever played, your playstyle is different, etc.). Also, I must have seen over 20 different videos between your brother and you playing mk. I have seen some of those vids and your brother is pretty good.
Marth's fair is no doubt better than mk's fair. Yours has more killing potential, priority, range,, you can do 2 in one short hop, it comes out at the same time but Marth's fair has a faster cooldown lag. That fact that it hits 3 times makes it worse since it can be smash DIed out of.
I am not arguing that it is even. I understand that mk has an advantage, but not as big as you are insinuating it to be. But the "I can't believe . . ." stuff are just johns. I can say the same thing about your marth as well (hardest Marth I have ever played, your playstyle is different, etc.). Also, I must have seen over 20 different videos between your brother and you playing mk. I have seen some of those vids and your brother is pretty good.
That's so risky and unsensible...ugh.
For the most part, you're right. For the matchup, you're wrong. Do you really want me to go over it again?
They're "just johns"? Are you kidding me. We're using personal experience to argue a matchup that shouldn't be using personal experience (since you won't listen to my facts and listen to reason). These "johns" are the reasons why YOU did well vs ME in OUR match. There's NOTHING I could have done to prevent that unless I could have genetically altered myself to adapt faster.
Thing is, MK is way better than Marth AND Marth's worst matchup AND frustrating to play against AND.....you know what? You aren't listening at all. This is pointless since I didn't press for only the facts to be argued and you won't listen to my reasons to why you outperformed your ratio. I'm discontinuing this arguement and I only hope I can somehow glean the knowledge to play against MK with some character by the 31st.
For the most part, you're right. For the matchup, you're wrong. Do you really want me to go over it again?
They're "just johns"? Are you kidding me. We're using personal experience to argue a matchup that shouldn't be using personal experience (since you won't listen to my facts and listen to reason). These "johns" are the reasons why YOU did well vs ME in OUR match. There's NOTHING I could have done to prevent that unless I could have genetically altered myself to adapt faster.
Thing is, MK is way better than Marth AND Marth's worst matchup AND frustrating to play against AND.....you know what? You aren't listening at all. This is pointless since I didn't press for only the facts to be argued and you won't listen to my reasons to why you outperformed your ratio. I'm discontinuing this arguement and I only hope I can somehow glean the knowledge to play against MK with some character by the 31st.
I know what a soft ban is. I simply wasn't aware there was one at all.
As an aside. I have never once claimed Sushi isn't good or that sushi couldn't beat me with other chrs. Untill I beat someone they're better then me regardless of what chr they use and what chr I use.
Ryanarius
Smash Journeyman
johns are excuses. No matter how valid and reasonable. If you lost because your both your arms mysteriously broke while you were recovering on your last stock. Although a perfectly valid excuse for losing its still a john. The whole idea of john's is you lost thats set no matter what you say it won't change the lost you just got to move on and beat them.
I definitely had the impression mk is soft banned in our region. No one is going to stop you from playing him but its going to be frowned upon... that seems pretty accurate to how it is here.
I definitely had the impression mk is soft banned in our region. No one is going to stop you from playing him but its going to be frowned upon... that seems pretty accurate to how it is here.
Sushi-Man
Smash Ace
Quoted for truth. The "I can't believe . . ." falls under this category. And for the "risky and unsensible" f-smash when mk trying to glide attack, that is something you want to practice so it won't be so "risky and unsensible." And your only argument for mk and marth is "You are not listening to me." What am I not listening to? The facts? But when I argued them, you just say "I am not listening."
See you guys the 31st. =p
The Director
Smash Lord
Guys, there's an easy solution to the MK problem: just turn Smashballs on. 
Sushi-Man
Smash Ace
If only . . .Guys, there's an easy solution to the MK problem: just turn Smashballs on.
MusicalMike
Needs to try harder
I'll get that Metaknight at Judgement.
TRASH TALK SON
<3.
TRASH TALK SON
<3.
MusicalMike
Needs to try harder
MusicalMike
Needs to try harder
Will do <3