Full Stage List Striking - New name

[Raziek]

Raziek you forgot Niddo.

'
He ninja'd me, I fixed it.

 

[DMG]

that's actually not my sig DMG, it's OOK's.

and yeah no one wants to listen to the BBR because most of them also don't know how to interact with the community.

P13rce I had a big problem with because during his "session" to talk with the community about the BBR on goings was not the BBR's view, it was his own.

I asked about MK being banned ( why not ask?) and he gave me the answer of " MK will not be banned because he has proven not to be a threat at MLG". I was confused since MLG was NOT using official rules suggested by the BBR. such a difference in rules cause skewed perception among even the best. of course if you add a LGL of 35 MK won't be bannable, but NO LGL? MK is nearly unstoppable. why would you base your claim off something that isn't even something your group supports?

this makes me mad

I knew it was a DK players, whatever close enough lol

As for the LGL, the problem is varying stances on it:

One portion doesn't think planking is a problem/hasn't witnessed it enough

Another portion believes solely MK's planking is the problem

Then you have people who think G&W and others are too good with planking

Or those who think a LGL should be applied to everyone to "impact everyone" and not pick/choose who gets affected by a surgical change



Now honestly, at this point I don't understand how people do not know that MK is too good on the edge. You can say what you want about the others in the cast, but concerning him at least I cannot fathom how people think otherwise. The most common reasons I get are "Show planking winning a tournament", which is a somewhat flawed statement when you take into consideration how widespread LGL's are/TO discretion to ban people for planking (Mostly EC and Texas) AND when you take into account players in general not playing as gay as possible. How many matches in M2K's career has he timed out someone or planked someone to death in Brawl? Maybe what, 10 or less? I've had 10 timeouts over the span of 4 tournaments... with Wario. Imagine if a MK player took the time I did to play gay... jesus christ.


Fundamentally, MK is likely the only one who is truly broken on the edge (I say likely because Planking is a complex subject and not everyone has been scrutinized with the same effort as MK in that area. From what I can tell however, he's the only one at that level concerning planking). Putting a LGL on, that encompasses more than just MK, would not be justified for "overcentralizing" or gameplay reasons (at least at this time). You could justify it for spectator/attendance reasons just like the Dedede infinite, but not through other reasons. With that said, you have serious advocates for no LGL of any kind, or the BBR recommendation against LGL's of any kind. How that is possible? IDK

 

[Chuee]

Anti-stage and anti-mk ban
woooooooooooo

 

[SuSa]

@DMG

I'm against LGL's because you shouldn't ban a tactic to nerf a character to make him "fair for play". You should ban the character

The above applies to all infinites, chaingrabs, small-step by DDD, and many other things WE REFUSE TO CHANGE. That I agree with.

Want to know why MK's is likely the only problem?

1) Mulitple Jumps

This narrows it down to Jigglypuff, Charizard, DeDeDe, Kirby, Pit, and Meta Knight. (Why do I feel I'm forgetting someone?)

2) Disjointed and fast attacks.

From that list we narrow it down to Pit, and Meta Knight. With Pit being kind of arguable.. he's pretty slow

And as far as Pit is concerned... his up-B (only form of recovery outside of glide/jumps) is his only option... and it's nowhere on par with MK's and MK can use ANY OF HIS SPECIAL ATTACKS if need be.

That and the frame data and number of options is stupid... but that's the reasoning behind it IMO. Of course, there's no real criteria or hard evidence of any of that. Just my reasoning.


EDIT:

I personally do not see planking as so overpowered and broken as to be banworthy. It's not OVERcentralizing (yet) and it seems the people who really try it... don't seem to be placing all that well in nationals/large tournaments. So there isn't any hard evidence supporting its really degenerative gameplay.



:leek:

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'd rather just ban the character since he has a lot more to influence the game to extreme measures than just planking.

 

[JayBee]

i've already made it my mind that if im going to play meta in a tourney im going to do this. not saying that its the easiest thing in the universe but why not do this? between that and air camping most metas can avoid the LGL limit anyways.


the LGL is useless IMO. doesnt stop much at all from happening. just makes players think first before they do it, but its easy to get around as meta.

 

[ADHD]

i've already made it my mind that if im going to play meta in a tourney im going to do this. not saying that its the easiest thing in the universe but why not do this? between that and air camping most metas can avoid the LGL limit anyways.


the LGL is useless IMO. doesnt stop much at all from happening. just makes players think first before they do it, but its easy to get around as meta.

No, it does serve a purpose. Believe me, without it, there would be havoc. Metaknight would actually be capable of perfect planking, and marth/gnw's planking is also very difficult to beat as well. At least it stops them from traditionally rehogging the edge over and over. The only one I hear complaining about the LGL is chibo (lol).

Also, sorry for those who want Metaknight banned. As long as he keeps being beaten, there's not a thing that can be done.

 

[BSP]

You could just host MK banned events yourself. Gotta start small. But an official ban probably won't happen anytime soon.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Um, can we please STOP discussing MK in this thread? It's REALLY off-topic, and it's not helping the discussion.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Just read last 4 pages (in my 20ppp layout).
And all I can see is that thread boiled down into "it might be cool, but it won't happen" =/
What is BBR for, again?

btw
-I'm pro-change, anti-ban.
-As for LGL, here in Mexico it does applies, and standing/smallstep infinites are banned.

EDIT:

The BBR creates a standard.
A standard is treated as "the norm"
The status quo does not equate to "majority" it equates to "what's the norm"
Society is raised to not question what is normal, but to be normal themselves.
Therefore people do not question or attempt to change it, even if it's something they don't believe in.
There are of course extremists who do attempt to go for that change.
Some fail.
Others succeed.

:leek:

Change "BBR" for "people" and I just found my new life philosophy...
I totally love SuSa now... D:

 

[John12346]

Um, can we please STOP discussing MK in this thread? It's REALLY off-topic, and it's not helping the discussion.

Jack, keep in mind that the main points of this thread are the problems with the counterpick system. MK, and his subsequent ****** of every possible stage combination(unless it's FD, SV, and Picto only lol) in tournament can be seen as one of these problems, and is indicated even in Susa's OP

Discussing MK is fine, but talking about him being banned or not is a no-no, as that'll lead to a fast lock.

I think...? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Jack Kieser]

We've already established that, no matter what we end up doing, MK will profit. Whether something will help or hurt MK is, ultimately, irrelevant, because nothing we do is going to help / hurt him more than simply MK being MK.

So, we should NOT focus on MK and instead focus on the other 99% of the game that will be affected by this change. Basically.

 

[SuSa]

Sheik will actually become viable.

I take that back.

Most of C+D tier will actually become viable.
Higher tier except DDD would become more viable. (Not too certain about Olimar....)
Low tier is low tier and they all suck regardless.

High tier will be largely unaffected except IC's, Falco, and Diddy. Marth/Wario/Snake won't really care much.

I think the ONLY argument of a full stage strike might be is it hurts IC's pretty bad seeing as they aren't great on a lot of stages...that being said.... the current system hurts a **** ton more than 1 character - and it's something we selectively chose without any real criteria or data to support it... so.. moot point.

:leek:

 

[gallax]

Susa, if you could host a tourney with ur choice with Cp'ing(stages and chars) what exactly would b ur rules?

 

[SuSa]

Full stage list, no currently banned stages + Pipes is banned. (It's a tough choice for the 1 stage to remove for a 21 stage list and this is where some discrepancies could occur... but I find pipes the least liked by the community as far as the current legal stages go)

That said, I don't believe Pipes is banworthy - it's just what I'd ban to have a 21 stage list...

Stages:
Game 1 will have both characters strike down until a single stage has been chosen. Each player get's 10 strikes.

Currently, since I'm bad with striking logic, I don't know the most efficient (but fairest) way to strike would be... so I'd go with:

Player with lower port strikes 5 stages first.
Opponent strikes 5 stages.
Player with lower port strikes 3 stages.
Opponent strikes 3 stages.
Player with lower port strikes 1 stage.
Opponent strikes 1 stage.
Player with lower port strikes 1 stage.
Opponent strikes 1 stage.

So 5-3-1-1. I know there is a better way, but I'm to stupid to figure it out. =P

It's done this way for efficiency, although I'm also deciding on if It should be 3-3-2-1-1.... little slower but how your opponent strikes will effect your strikes (so optimally 1 by 1 would be the best IMO... but that's just... time consuming)

So once only 1 stage remains, that's the stage for Game 1.

Characters are decided before the stage and of course can be double-blind picked if requested.

So there's game 1.

3. The first game is played, using the stage chosen during step 2.

4. Each player may announce three stages to be banned for counterpicks of the set.

5. The winner of the previous match chooses their character.

6. The loser of the previous match chooses their character. **

7. The loser of the previous match announces the next match's stage from the Stage List *

8. Repeat steps 5-7 for all proceeding matches.


OPTIONAL:
*May not be a banned stage, is chosen AFTER characters due to the optional rule of Step 6.

**If the loser switches characters, the winner is allowed to switch which 3 stages are banned. This is to ensure that the loser does not start off as a character to try and trick you into not banning stages easily abusable by another. EG: Losing as Yoshi only to switch to MK and play Brinstar

So the only real modification is the stage list, game 1, and the # of bans (due to such a large stage list)

Again 3 bans is the number that me and a few people I spoke to deemed to be fair to avoid any "sure win" stages. The goal of the full stage list is to not break characters and allow Wario to ALWAYS get a CP he's practically guaranteed a win at if he plays correctly.

The stage list (Striking the way you do + # of bans) does it's best to avoid degenerative gameplay.

** is optional, seeing as the goal of a full stage list is to NOT heavily favor any 1 character starting Game 1, and to NOT give any character a "sure win" on a STRONG counterpick.

The counterpick system is in place to give you an advantage, not to give you a free win.

Characters are chosen before the stage, just like Game 1. This allows you to CP your opponent based on matchup - but since they have more bans and can change their 3 bans if you swap characters, you cannot easily abuse this system.

:leek:

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

How'd this go off topic? Seems to be back on the rails now, but man...
@SuSa: you should drop Pirate Ship instead of Pipes. PS has a known broken tactic in many matchups, Pipes doesn't (and is in fact really legit).

Just curious- what makes a stage dynamic or static

From what i'm seeing in this argument, a dynamic stage is one that could:

- Damage/Kill me for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time by no fault of my own

Let me get this straight... The stage could kill you for being at the wrong place in the wrong time, and it's not your fault. Explain to me how ANY stage we advocate will kill you without it being your fault. If you die on Brinstar to the lava, it's your fault. If you die on RC because you didn't keep up with the stage, it's your fault. If you get run over on PTAD, it's your own **** fault. So in short, it's either your fault, or your opponent outplayed you severely while using the stage to his advantage, a skill which is critical in this game and which should not ever be mitigated.
By your definition, all dynamic stages are already banned, and with good reason too. Oh, and there's like maybe 2 of them.

In my opinion, the best and most fair stages are the ones that keep the game in the hands of the players.

All right. How does the completely non-random Japes not fulfill this? RC? Brinstar? PTAD (cars do not appear randomly; the stops you take are on a pattern, the cars on a looped timer)? It's still all in the player's hand, it's just that how you have to act is different. You're still in control, just if you play like on FD, you're going to lose.

The counterpick system is designed to have stages that blatantly favor certain characters while not favoring others. Why should a game be decided by the stage and not the players, ESPECIALLY the first one?

Wait hang on, I'm confused. Is game one supposed to have stages that blatantly favor certain characters while not favoring others? Because that's what your stagelist has done. Congrats.
And what's more, name me one stage we're recommending to be legal that decides the game if the players aren't absolutely pants-on-head ********. Maybe pictochat, but I'm not exactly a running advocate for the stage. Japes may be awesome for Falco and DK, RC may be awesome for MK, but those don't decide the game on their own. It's the players who outplay their opponents on a naturally advantaged environment, just like how ICs are amazing on FD.

If you look at the pound ruleset (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287983) you'll see a balanced striking system

O.o
*opens thread*
*is pleasantly surprised to see 7 stages*
*is still disappointed because you promised a balanced striking system and did not deliver*
*Closes thread*

How is it balanced if you still have characters being artificially buffed and being able to force their way to a stage that is in fact very good for them overall? You may claim it's "not as extreme" but you're still forcing it towards the heavily grounded stages. Example: Diddy vs. MK. Diddy still gets YI, CS, or PS1, all of which are really good Diddy stages (compared to the rest of the list).

infused with counterpicks that blatantly favor certain matchups

FD?

and situations.

BF?

Even the most "fair" stages still provide advantages and disadvantages to certain characters. But I don't feel like a stage should be a deciding factor of skill, which is what tournaments are meant to decide upon.

So, in other words, you don't think that a critical element of gameplay skill (how well you do on stages) should be at all representative of how good a person is at this game? You might as well say that you don't think spacing, zoning, or baiting&punishing should be deciding factors of skill! At the point where you'd completely ignore one of the most basic and critical elements of gameplay skill when playing the game, you are:
A MASSIVE, ANTICOMPETITIVE SCRUB
...and Someone who really should just go play TvC, SSF4, or GG. Seriously, if you want to neuter a game, go **** a game that I'm not competitively involved in.

When I talk to people like you, I'm constantly disappointed to hear the level of bull**** spouted that I would expect from casuals who play with items on high because they don't want skill to matter, but instead would prefer to be handed the win on a shiny round rainbow striped platter. I don't expect this from BBR members, or top players, or some of the most influential TOs in the nation!!! Also why the hell isn't PS2 a starter? It's more fair and balanced than any other starter in the starter list.

I'm not sure why you think your status quo should be everyone elses, but this is a free thinking community.

Well, first of all, it's because we're right. We're backing our **** up pretty extensively. Our status quo should be everyone else's because we're right and most smashers are ****ing morons. Free thinking? LOL, that's a good one. I think Jack already covered it.

There have been 2 opportunities this year to apply for the BBR, I haven't seen your name on the app pages.

I'm in there. And if I don't get accepted, we know there's something wrong with the BBR. Please refer to my sig.

But more importantly, you have the power to move your ideas! I went from a random scrub ROB player to creating a national ruleset in less than 3 years time. Take your ideas and see how they grow! If they don't, then maybe your status quo is not what is best.

Again, Jack covered this one pretty **** well. I've been presenting my ideas at every tournament and getting either "yeah, your **** makes sense, but we'd rather do it this way for no good reason whatsoever/because that's how we've always done it" or "LOLOLO GTFO SCRUB".

The problem is that we aren't in power. I'd host my own tournaments, but I don't have a venue and I have no money at the moment; I'm going to really have to scrape to cover my transportation costs to MSNeuss (large tournament in germany in the near future), and I already owe Stiv 40 bucks because my bank locked my credit card at a bad time. Hosting a smashfest is, for me, completely out of the question.

this tit-for-tat is going to get dirty. you have so many holes in your argument just based of lack of knowledge or ignorance or idk dude. i'll probably stop here

- majority vote to ban Meta Knight is 2/3'rds; not 51%.

SuSa did you undergo the "fight" in the ruleset topic? over50 pages and more was full of insults and more to the BBR because the Stagelist was garbage for the most.
Thats the reasons why there is a "v3.1" with CP Categorization.
the BBR doesn't give us the norm, TOs giving norm actually because they still decide which Stage Set they use regardless of BBR Ruleset or not.

The stagelist is in fact really, really good. It's your mindset which is garbage, sorry to say. You think we should ban RC, PTAD, Norfair... WHY SHOULD WE REMOVE THIS MUCH SKILL FROM THE GAME?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

@SuSa: you should drop Pirate Ship instead of Pipes. PS has a known broken tactic in many matchups, Pipes doesn't (and is in fact really legit).

Rudder Camping is bannable, and very easy to tell if the opponent is using it or not. You can also mess up the opponent's ability to Rudder Camp by moving to the right spot on the screen so that he or she doesn't have a character bubble, and thus can't easily move slightly with the rocking of the boat in order to avoid being killed/popping up.

Dang, I should try to find my data on Pirate Ship again... /off-topic

 

[Chuee]

BPC going back to his scrub-calling :/

 

[ADHD]

I thought of something against Metaknight but now I forgot it.

And hey, if Metaknight is the problem to an extremely liberal stagelist, then why would there not be other problems as well? One character is never that terribly game-changing.

 

[gallax]

One character is never that terribly game-changing.

This is not true. Given the right circumstances a character can be terribly game changing.

 

[Omni]

Get back on topic, guys.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

BPC going back to his scrub-calling :/

Accurate scrub-calling. Seriously, if you want to remove a highly important required skill for the game for no adequate reason, then you are probably a scrub. You're certainly not supporting a good competitive community, that's for sure.

I thought of something against Metaknight but now I forgot it.

And hey, if Metaknight is the problem to an extremely liberal stagelist, then why would there not be other problems as well? One character is never that terribly game-changing.

I only wish this were true.

 

[Raziek]

I'd sooner drop Pipes than Pirate Ship, BPC.

Rudder Camping is discretely bannable and easily identifiable.

Alternatively, you could add Skyworld. (Yes, I'm serious)

Skyworld is broken by MK, so that would probably have to be for striking only.

 

[Albert.]

BPC is, out of all of the non-mods and non-BBR members I've read posts from, one of the most scientifically minded, philosophically oriented individuals I've ever seen. He's an exceptional thinker, and were I to host a symposium on any philosophical concept, I'd be honored to have him give a guest lecture.

If anyone could figure out solutions to some of Smash's philosophical problems, I'd expect it to be him. Listen to that guy; he's probably... no, IS, one of the most objectively minded, educated posters on SWF today. He knows his stuff.

Well...

I laughed.

 

[ADHD]

This is not true. Given the right circumstances a character can be terribly game changing.

I can only think of DDD on stages with non-temporary walls. MK can't really compare with that no matter where he is, although on LM he might come close.

Sky world is a terrible competitive stage, rofl. Ceilings are never a good idea.

 

[Ripple]

Well...

I laughed.

at fanboyism or that fact that he is right?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well...

I laughed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyOHJa5Vj5Y&feature=related

Worth a look at. Oh and you're ********.

I can only think of DDD on stages with non-temporary walls. MK can't really compare with that no matter where he is, although on LM he might come close.

Sky world is a terrible competitive stage, rofl. Ceilings are never a good idea.

DDD's infinites, if they were the sole reason to ban those stages, would probably lead to him being banned on a more logical count. The broken tactic isn't his (or any other) chaingrab though; it's walkoff camping (and in the case of permanent walls, fin/circle camping).

Furthermore, what's inherently broken about a non-permanent ceiling?

 

[ADHD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyOHJa5Vj5Y&feature=related

Worth a look at. Oh and you're ********.



DDD's infinites, if they were the sole reason to ban those stages, would probably lead to him being banned on a more logical count. The broken tactic isn't his (or any other) chaingrab though; it's walkoff camping (and in the case of permanent walls, fin/circle camping).

Furthermore, what's inherently broken about a non-permanent ceiling?

Alot of characters can brainlessly spam attacks and make them bounce of the ceiling. Even if they tech they can just repeat the cycle.

Also, cave of life. I've tried explaining this to you before, that players have to get lucky with angle trajectories depending on their DI to knock them out of the structure and into the death zone. Certain characters are better suited at this than others, but you will still see people living to absurd percentages and disrupting the reward/punishment natural cycle.

Did you see SK92 vs Choice? SK was having a solid lead because he was making all the correct choices (lol pun) but then Choice camped under the windmill on Ps1 for his entire stock and got the comeback although he was undeserving. Now imagine if this was for the entire stage's lifespan. There are obviously going to be balance issues.

 

[Ripple]

nothing is wrong with the cave of life if its destroyable

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well I'm not going to argue with a permanent and effective cave of life. I know that that's broken. I'm just wondering if we couldn't categorize Skyworld's the same way we do PS1's, LM's, or YI(M)'s.

EDIT: This belongs in individual stage legality discussion...

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

While it's destroyable, it doesn't change the fact many characters can be ceiling spiked and die at a pretty low %.

Also destroying them removes the ledges of the stage so some characters can be completely screwed over.

The stagelist is in fact really, really good. It's your mindset which is garbage, sorry to say. You think we should ban RC, PTAD, Norfair... WHY SHOULD WE REMOVE THIS MUCH SKILL FROM THE GAME?

Cruise is fine, it's not do it or lose but it does give some characters a very strong cp stage.

The other two aren't legit stages to be CP imo.

On Norfair I've seen at MLG Columbus characters running circles around other players, Speed in particular did this, Hunger three stocked CO18 on this stage with Wario because of the layout. This is with a LGL by the way.

Also good luck catching a Wario that wants to time you out on this stage.

PTAD is extremely polar towards characters with the best recoveries on the flying portions, no grabable ledges really hurts this stage. It changes to some nicer portions when it stops moving, but it adds some sections with walk offs/walls, and adds in hazards, the cars, that can kill around 40-50% which some of the hazards can hit people on the platforms above the cars.

It's a mix of Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes, and Delfino only it amplifies it. Sorry I don't see this stage doing anything but being a very very big hard counter stage for a large portion of the cast.

 

[SuSa]

While it's destroyable, it doesn't change the fact many characters can be ceiling spiked and die at a pretty low %.

Also destroying them removes the ledges of the stage so some characters can be completely screwed over.

Cool, that sounds like an amazing CP quality.
Tech the ceiling spike
Player safer when no ledge is around if you need one.

That being said, Skyworld's layout is actually ****ING AWESOME for circle camping.... So I don't think it should be legal.

(Yes, I can even draw a circle for that if you wish.... )

On Norfair I've seen at MLG Columbus characters running circles around other players, Speed in particular did this, Hunger three stocked CO18 on this stage with Wario because of the layout. This is without a LGL bye the way.

Also good luck catching a Wario that wants to time you out on this stage.

Why didn't they ban it?
Oh wait, let me guess. They banned Brinstar instead?

With a full stage strike system and three bans this wouldn't happen

PTAD is extremely polar towards characters with the best recoveries on the flying portions, no grabable ledges really hurts this stage. It changes to some nicer portions when it stops moving, but it adds some sections with walk offs/walls, and adds in hazards, the cars, that can kill around 40-50% which some of the hazards can hit people on the platforms above the cars.

Strike it and/or ban it vs those characters.

The cars have enough warning and are extremely easy to dodge. I've only been hit by a car ONCE out of all the times I've played this stage. That was because I was spiked into it after jumping to avoid it.

Temporary walkoffs/walls != ban ||| Look at DELFINO which has BOTH of these as well!

Are people even THINKING with some of the **** that comes out of their mouth?

It's a mix of Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes, and Delfino only it amplifies it. Sorry I don't see this stage doing anything but being a very very big hard counter stage for a large portion of the cast.

*coughs*
Ban it or strike it.


I'm starting to wonder if people understand that like... all these "sure win" stages... are...bannable.... and I can't think of a SINGLE character that has over 3 of those stages.



PS:
Temp ceiling != ban
Luigi's Mansion is legal, and that's x10 worse than Skyworld for hitting into a ceiling.

If Skyworld is banned, it is banned for the SAME CRITERIA AS EVERY OTHER STAGE.

It supports CIRCLE CAMPING to a LARGE degree.

:leek:

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Your opening the door for banned stages if your saying just strike it.

Instant win stages are not healthy for competitive play at all, this is exactly what happened with Norfair at MLG Columbus.

Who cares if you can strike it, the stage is degenerate.

 

[Rayquaza07]

weegee 's was an awsome stage for dk mk oli snake ness and lucas BRING IT BACK PLZ >_<

 

[SuSa]

Your opening the door for banned stages if your saying just strike it.

Instant win stages are not healthy for competitive play at all, this is exactly what happened with Norfair at MLG Columbus.

Who cares if you can strike it, the stage is degenerate.

Norfair I can see issues with circle camping. It could fall under that criteria if someone cold prove it.

What I'm saying though, is there NEEDS TO BE A FOLLOWED CRITERIA to ban a stage. Currently EVERY stage that is banned, is banned for:

Circle Camping (Degenerative)

• Temple
• Spear Pillar
• New Pork City
• Summit
• Skyworld
• 75m
• Mario Bros.
• Hanenbow

Cave of Life (Degenerative)

• Temple
• Spear Pillar (all but 1 transformation which opens circle camping up)
• Mario Bros.

Permanent walk off/walls on BOTH SIDES (Overcentralizing)
Notice BOTH sides. This is why Pipes isn't here.

• Shadow Moses Island
• Green Hill Zone
• Mushroomy Kingdom 1
• Mushroomy Kingdom 2
• Mario Circuit
• Bridge of Eldin
• 75m
• Mario Bros.
• Onett
• Flat Zone 2

Giving a random item reward (Mushroom, Star) (Degenerative)

• Wario Ware

I don't PERSONALLY know:

• Rumble Falls punishes with death for ONE mistake.
• Corneria's Fin presented a large problem for gameplay.
• Big Blue punishes with death for ONE mistake.

Out of ALL of the current banned stages, those are the three I can't classify into a criteria to warrant it's ban. Those are the ONLY ONES that could POSSIBLY be argued to be legal.

So don't tell me "Well if you can just strike it/ban it that opens up for a lot of stupid stages to become legal" because NO. NO IT DOESN'T! All these stages are BANNED FOR A SPECIFIC (OR MULTIPLE) CRITERIA!

I can see Norfair being banned for circle camping, I see TWO circles (above+below) on the platforms, and the platforms HELP circle camping by giving invincibility frames. I can see that falling under the criteria and getting it banned. You should bring that up with your TO or in another thread.

EDIT:
@ above poster
Luigi's Mansion is legal... speak with your TO about allowing it.
:leek:

 

[Albert.]

I laughed, because BPC's veneer of intelligence should be seen through, instantly, if you're not dumb as nails and can actually actively read his drivel.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Well done, except, if you don't explain why, all you're doing is insulting with no basis. Ad hominem attacks never have, nor ever will, work in this thread.

Attack the points, not the guy. And you're not even doing THAT, so say something productive or GTFO of the thread.

 

[ADHD]

nothing is wrong with the cave of life if its destroyable

So you're suggesting whomever needs to get the kill go out of his way to destroy something irrelevant to the fight itself in order to stop the opponent from living to insane percentages?

 

[Albert.]

Well done, except, if you don't explain why, all you're doing is insulting with no basis. Ad hominem attacks never have, nor ever will, work in this thread.

Attack the points, not the guy. And you're not even doing THAT, so say something productive or GTFO of the thread.

You're the guy that called BPC "educated"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N5Zu53rL_U

done.

 

[Life]

Kindly draw Norfair's circle.

Every platform except the center one is rise-through (the center platform is slightly rise-through on the edges I think), and IIRC half of each of those platforms is drop-through.

Also, the lava.

edit: quad ninja'd