Fthrow/Dthrow Chaingrab Thread

[Stealth Raptor]

there are IF's at the beginning of the shine. it depends on whether or not he has the time to get it off.

 

[momochuu]

I'm picking up Pikachu again. :3

 

[Ussi]

there are IF's at the beginning of the shine. it depends on whether or not he has the time to get it off.

first 6 frames are invincible that's why i ask. But if the hitbox doesn't reach... I don't think you can jump cancel reflectors like melee.. can you?

 

[Alphicans]

I wonder what this will do to pika's match-ups. I was really surpised when truth was doing this to me yesterday (I am falco btw). Pika just got scary.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

All this and still no video?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wolfs Shine has a lot more range than Pika's grab. If there's enough time for the Shine, then range won't be an issue. Wolf can also Shine Marth out of many moves as well as any non-tether grab.
Either way I don't think it'll affect the Wolf match-up very much. Wolf is one of the harder characters to grab. No character can actually shieldgrab his bair (not even Olimar) so I can't see it becoming a **** match-up. Same for Falco btw, you still have no safe ways to approach him.

MK on the other hand will obviously be the most drastic change. You can basically play the Falco-game: CG to 60%, run away and spam projectiles (except that Pika runs faster and has a much better recovery...and I think he's a bit heavier than Falco). This match-up might become even in Pika's favour.
I can't see this being any good vs Snake. It's more or less impossible to grab him, especially if he places mines and grenades well. His dthrow techchase is probably still better.

Amazing find none the less. I love how people used to say Brawl lacks depth...now it's possible to survive Chainspikes, Falcon can combo into guaranteed knees and Pika can take half of MKs stock from one grab.

Hilarious.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Lol it isn't that hard to approach falco. Just predict when he is going to Side-b, shield it, and run grab. We can duck under his lasers and shine and it is easy to get to him...but this isn't a matchup discussion. I will test the wolf grab and have a video up at around 4-4:30.

 

[Ussi]

One. Falco is heavier than Pikachu who is a feather weight (lighter than Fox too)

two. Only character that is hard to grab is Wario and that's it. I don't see Wolf being hard to grab. Plus can't Pikachu just fair > grab

Three. Snake is not hard to grab, but his nades make CGs hard.


The main issue to address is first can Wolf shine in time, and two, does the shine protect him from the CG if he can pull it off in time.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Ussi, i will test it when i get home, i am in school right now...chill.

 

[Ussi]

o_O Did I sound angry/agitated?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

OMG USSI CALM DOWN! seriously take a chill pill before you asplode from your anger o.o

 

[Ussi]

I'm sorry! *head bang violently* I'm Sorry *more head banging* I NEED TO CALM DOWN... *head bang* all this head bangs are making me dizzy.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Also, can the OP clarify if his list is intented just for Dthrowing only or do you have to use fthrow on other characters [ aside from Falco,Wolf]

 

[Zylar]

The OP might have to say "The best way for this char is ... + CG" or "For this char from 0% CG to _%, from 10% to _%."

0-o nothing is that Micheal Hey dude? :D

Also, lol @Ussi. This IS the interwebz.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Yea, it just needs to get organized so that i can understand what throws to use on what character. And which ones need the stale throws.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

this is Dthrow only. and testing is going on right now to figure out staleness etc

 

[Dark 3nergy]

alright, i wanted to test it for myself so i just needed some clarification as to what throw it was

this type of CG is kinda weird --- but considering the release grab shenanigans Bowser and Yoshi got. whatever gives you an edge and works why not?

 

[Sei Shin Casios]

as far as i know, this still has to be tested, the only things we know so far is:

Metaknight:
0-56% d-throw chain. follow up: nair, upair, reversed uptilt, f-tilt (up)

questions:
-the region its still possible to pull the cg off, if mk has more then 0%?

snake:
d-throw cg begins at 23%. snake can nade out of it, he cant if you chaingrab him to the edge (nade will just drop)

questions:
-if you have got port 4, nade explodes while holding snake, does he gets out? (PIKA wont be hit cause of port prio?) or will he be able to fsj the next throw? (i did not get that, sorry xD)
-do you have to start d-throw at exactly 23% or is it still possible with a bit more dmg? how much may that be?

falco:
d-throw chain starts at 20% (possible to fthrow x2+pummel to 20%) -> 104% (?)

questions:
-the region its still possible to pull the cg off, if falco has more then 20%.

wolf:

questions:
-able to interrupt the cg with his shine?

DDD:
works, as said in the first post (?)

questions for the other chars:
the max % to which its still possible to start the d-throw chaingrab.

did i forget something?

 

[gallax]

ok. so reconsidering these new cg's i think a new matchup consierdation of each character needs to be ungone.

edit* i have always been able to shine out of dthrow cg's at arund 35-40% when palying wolf.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

that was before the buffered regrabs. people saying how they may have found ways to get out of the regular cg, such as wolf and fox's reflector, have got to realise that before this only 2 characters in the game could be dthrow cg'd, fox and wolf. if all of a sudden all these new people can be cg'd, it means that the grab is faster and that the old ways to get out of the cg may not apply anymore. further testing is needed.

 

[Tagxy]

Sorry I just threw this together so Pika!'s thread didnt become the main one. Ill fix it up soon.

Wolfs Shine has a lot more range than Pika's grab. If there's enough time for the Shine, then range won't be an issue. Wolf can also Shine Marth out of many moves as well as any non-tether grab.
Either way I don't think it'll affect the Wolf match-up very much. Wolf is one of the harder characters to grab. No character can actually shieldgrab his bair (not even Olimar) so I can't see it becoming a **** match-up. Same for Falco btw, you still have no safe ways to approach him.

MK on the other hand will obviously be the most drastic change. You can basically play the Falco-game: CG to 60%, run away and spam projectiles (except that Pika runs faster and has a much better recovery...and I think he's a bit heavier than Falco). This match-up might become even in Pika's favour.
I can't see this being any good vs Snake. It's more or less impossible to grab him, especially if he places mines and grenades well. His dthrow techchase is probably still better.

Amazing find none the less. I love how people used to say Brawl lacks depth...now it's possible to survive Chainspikes, Falcon can combo into guaranteed knees and Pika can take half of MKs stock from one grab.

Hilarious.

Although we havent tested wolf or fox yet, so far Falco has had 0 frames of freedom with a buffered grab. Judging by the timing and the fact that unbuffered CGs already used to work to lower percents, I'm almost certain Fox and Wolfs will also have 0 frames of freedom, but for obvious reasons were testing the higher tiers first. Also, like Falco's grab, Wolfs needs to be started at 20%. But as mentioned he can be fthrow to that percent like Falco.

As far as matchups go that will be reevaluated later. Ill just say pikachu really doenst have a hard time getting grabs.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

lol tag stop repeating what i just said.

 

[Tagxy]

rofl too many posts at one time.

 

[gallax]

i highly disagree with your evaluation of the snake matchup. it is very possible and most likely probably that you will grab snake no matter how good they are. try reverse grabbing them more often. it throws off their spotdodge timing.

if we can now cg to a higher percentage with the dthrow(and it has been confirmed) and master it, i believe that now this whole matchup now is in pikas favor. at worst it was 50:50 before. now, pika ownage.

 

[Ussi]

I actually can't wait for the next anther vs Ally now.

 

[Pikabunz]

nothing. is right about when 2 players grab at the same time. It's random.

 

[gallax]

ally = owned by all pikas

i just watched some vids of ally vs. lain and his DDD. holy crap. they were the best vids of snake ever.

 

[Nicholas1024]

I'd like to see an Anther vs M2K.

 

[Pikabunz]

The cg won't give Pika that much of an advantage. Now they know that you will try the grab them at start, so all they have to do is avoid getting grabbed till they reach a safe percent and the chain grab won't work.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Perhaps. But then again, I'm sure there's some great mindgames potential there.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

we can still fthrow to 50, and its safer then the dthrow. if you pause after each grab, you would slide beyong the grenade so another throw is safe.

 

[Ussi]

Plus there is the chance to at least CG at the ledge.

 

[Nicholas1024]

The cg won't give Pika that much of an advantage. Now they know that you will try the grab them at start, so all they have to do is avoid getting grabbed till they reach a safe percent and the chain grab won't work.

Was this talking about MK, Snake, or both? (I think I'm on a different page than everyone else here...)

 

[gallax]

this sounds more like falco or wario. lol.

but they were talking about snake and fthrowing him to the ledge so that the nade drop(if he gets any off) will fall down and off the stage.

 

[Zylar]

Perhaps. But then again, I'm sure there's some great mindgames potential there.

Yeah, we just got to condition the opposition to fear grabs. FEAR IT!
I mean, it sucks fearing a shield grab from anyone, but from pika (for some chars) it could mean death or a very bad match.

 

[gallax]

this could lead way to having no shuttle loops against pika until the after MK has reached 60%. also, remember we can reverse grab a tornado. there is always a way.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Im starting to regret sharing this info -_-

Dont be. This is how we progress the Meta game. Finding ways to avoid it, either by getting on another character or ultimately not getting grabbed while on meta.

i thought i would point this out. if you guys decide to hide it i will repost all the info in my own thread. hiding info does nothing but slow us down. i would rather learn how to deal with anti grab strats now then in the middle of a big tourney with a lot on the line.

 

[Van Jones]

This is so tasty. I <3 it.

 

[gallax]

i agree with stealth. discuss and do not let this thing slow down. this is awesome.

 

[brinboy789]

pikas like the new falco >_>