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Fthrow/Dthrow Chaingrab Thread

Pikabunz

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FThrow/DThrow Chaingrab Thread



A series of tip-offs led a few pikachu mains to come across a list from Japan of previously unknown down throw chaingrabs. With testing we've confirmed the following thus far to be true as far as we known. As we learn more we will update, keep in mind the video is harder to update then the list.

A question and answer as well as the original list from Japan are included at the end of this post.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

The list only includes the earliest starting point from a fresh down throw to the last percent they can be regrabbed at from that starting point. With a few exceptions and unless otherwise stated, this list does NOT include:

  • Total Damage from the chaingrab
  • Highest percent the chaingrab can start
  • Highest percent that can lead to a regrab
  • Deterioration levels of down throw that allow the chaingrabs work
  • Any combinations of the previous

The reason being that it would take way too much time and space to list, let alone test properly. In other words certain chain grabs may start and work at other percents and deterioration levels or a combination of the two, as well as lead into any number of attacks like usmash, utilt, nair, pummel to throw, etc.


Foward Throw Chaingrabs

:bowser2: Bowser
- 0% - 72% + regrab
- Fthrow x 11 > grab

:falcon: Captain Falcon
- 0% - 67% + regrab
- Fthrow x 10 > grab

:dk2: Donkey Kong
- 0% - 67% + regrab
- Fthrow x 10 > grab

:falco: Falco
- 0% - 58% + regrab
- Fthrow x 8 > grab

:fox: Fox
- 0% - 58% + regrab
- Fthrow x 8 > grab

:ganondorf: Ganondorf
- 0% - 67% + regrab
- Fthrow x 10 > grab

:ike: Ike
- 0% - 67% + regrab
- Fthrow x 10 > grab

:dedede: King Dedede
- 0% - 67% + regrab
- Fthrow x 10 > grab

:link2: Link
- 0% - 67% + regrab
- Fthrow x 10 > grab

:shiek: Sheik
- 0% - 58% + regrab
- Fthrow x 8 > grab

:snake: Snake
- 0% - 67% + regrab
- Fthrow x 10 > grab

:sonic: Sonic
- 0% - 41% + regrab
- Fthrow x 6 > grab

:wolf: Wolf
- 0% - 67% + regrab
- Fthrow x 10 > grab

:zerosuitsamus: Zero Suit Samus
- 0% - 47% + regrab
- Fthrow x 6 > grab




Down Throw Chaingrabs

Down Throw Demo Video

:falcon: Captain Falcon
- 19% - 105% + regrab
- Dthrow x 14 > grab

:dk2: Donkey Kong
- 7% - 26% + regrab
- Dthrow x 2 > grab
*Can escape anytime with footstool.

:falco: Falco
- 19% - 100% + regrab
- Dthrow x 13 > grab

:fox: Fox
- 0% - 99% + regrab
- Dthrow x 17 > grab

:ganondorf: Ganondorf
- 0% - 85% + regrab
- Dthrow x 14 > grab
*First 2 regrabs are escapable with footstool.

:ike: Ike
- 0% - 62% + regrab
- Dthrow x 9 > grab
*First 4 regrabs are escapable with footstool.

:link2: Link
- 0% - 41% + regrab
- Dthrow x 5 > grab
*First 4 regrabs are escapable with footstool.

:lucas: Lucas
- 5% - 33% + regrab
- Dthrow x 3 > grab
*Can escape anytime with footstool.

:metaknight: Metaknight
- 0% - 52% + regrab
- Dthrow x 7 > grab
*First 3 regrabs are escapable with footstool.

:pikachu2: Pikachu
- 0% - 27% + regrab
- Dthrow x 3 + grab
*Can escape anytime with footstool.

:shiek: Sheik
- 19% - 105% + regrab
- Dthrow x 14 > grab

:snake: Snake
- 27% - 80% + regrab
- Dthrow x 7 > grab

:squirtle: Squirtle
- 3% - 22% + regrab
- Dthrow x 2 > grab
*Can escape anytime with footstool.

:wario: Wario
- 7% - 26% + regrab
- Dthrow x 2 > grab
*Can escape anytime with footstool.

:wolf: Wolf
- 0% - 115% + regrab
- Dthrow x 3 > Pummel > Dthrow x 14 > grab



Follow Ups

From Dthrow
  • ftilt (up) - 5 frames
  • grab - 6
  • dsmash - 6
  • nair - 7
  • reverse utilt - 8
  • usmash - 9
  • utilt - 9


Question and Answer

Q: Is there any weird mechanic to doing these?
A: Many of these require a buffered grab. As far as dashes and ledges go, not unless otherwise stated.

Q: I cant do "x" grab, what am I doing wrong?
A: While there are no weird mechanics, some of these do require that they be set up. For instance, Falco and Wolf need a fresh down throw at 20% (which can be accomplished by fthrow CGing him to that)

Q: When can I buffer a dthrow?
A: The buffering window is rather big. You can buffer as early as when pika is falling halfway through the dthrow. When he bounces up in a ball and falls, about halfway through.

Q: I still can't do it!
A: The most common mistake for people to make is to hold grab button too long and accidentally shield. Make sure you tap it and release quickly.


Original Source
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=12818 - by Michael Hey
 

gallax

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from what i know, using the fthrow does not degenerate your dthrow.

its doesnt make sense why its not possible to chain with a fresh dthrow at 0% but it is possible at 20%. how does this make sense to anyone who believes this?

this is possible. lol.
 

The Truth!

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Many of these throws are dependent on hitstun and staleness.

For instance, I can dthrow falco to 20%, but by then dthrow would be too stale and hitstun too low to continue from there. But if I start from 20%, by the time dthrow becomes stale hitstun is strong enough to hold him in place to continue the grab to a much higher percent.
 

The Truth!

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idk how many frames, but it seems like a rather big window. Prime said it was pretty big too.
 

Stealth Raptor

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i highly doubt it. with perfect timing of pikas cg, perhaps with buffer, it could be inescapable. ive heard horror stories of camboner escaping pikas cg online at 60, but that is most likely do to online lag. what direction do you guys DI for this escape? away? i dont mind testing it.
 

A6M Zero

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Zhamy says he has been able to do it offline, even with Pikachu buffering. I'm not sure which way the DI is.
 

[FBC] ESAM

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So wait...its just D-throw? Nothing special, no jumps needed to be gimped, nothing?
 

Sei Shin Casios

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as hars as it is tobelieve, thats what he is saying..

i still think that u can just di+fsj out of it, but i hope that this really works xD

could you ask your brother and run some tests? (like falco or mk)
i havnt got somebody to di+ fsj out of it, and cant do it alone.. (i tried it single handed, but i coulndt say if i fsj out, or if i just messed up the grab timing..)
 

[FBC] ESAM

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My brother is out on his 2 year anniversary with his GF....i REALLY wanna test this.
 

|RK|

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I'm kind hoping this works so even more people will hate brawl. Then brawl+ will start to shine :D
That isn't nice. In fact a lot of the people who play Brawl actually LIKE Brawl. Some even like it more than Melee.
 

Ussi

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The people who like brawl are mostly ignorant to melee's real game. Mostly because of the massive tech skill required compared to brawl.
 

Pikabunz

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You can start buffering the grab on frame 38 of the dthrow, so that's 11 frames to press and release the z button. Not that hard.
 

Ussi

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We should test the cap % to start the CG.

Fox, Falco, and Wolf are all LOL with this. MK might get even with this
 

supermario27mx

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The following is quoted from Michael Hey. The original source of the information is some unnamed person we believe is from Japan.
The person that provided this info is Japanese. Michael Hey was in town in january for Winter Game Fest at UCSD. Michael mentioned a chaingrab on Wario and Falco to me and TKD (SoCal #5 Rank) who plans to pick up Pika, but never mentioned buffering so we disregarded it. MH had some cool knowledge from Japan. Dude checks up on japanese smash sites for this info. Did you know that in Japan Fox goes even with MK?? also Pika is #16 in the JP tier list.
*looks for JP tier list*
 

The Truth!

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The person that provided this info is Japanese. Michael Hey was in town in january for Winter Game Fest at UCSD. Michael mentioned a chaingrab on Wario and Falco to me and TKD (SoCal #5 Rank) who plans to pick up Pika, but never mentioned buffering so we disregarded it. MH had some cool knowledge from Japan. Dude checks up on japanese smash sites for this info. Did you know that in Japan Fox goes even with MK?? also Pika is #16 in the JP tier list.
*looks for JP tier list*
Yeah I've always heard of Michael Hey and his amazing Japaneseness. LOL, mr grab master. Now I want to meet and talk to him =[ The stuff he finds is amazing.
 

Piman34

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this is amazing, stealth will test it and i will reap the benefits...muahaha. but seriously, this is amazing if it works...
 

Legendary Pikachu

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Kudos to you and MH and of course the japanese.

Fox is EVEN with MK?! I'd just like to SEE that to find out any mindgame/spacing those mad fox's could've done.

Sincerely,
Legendary Pikachu, LDPK, now not a fledgeling smashboards'er
 

[FBC] ESAM

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Fox can grab release to U-smash him, so its a kill at 90 lol. But yeah, im testing this today and seeing if it is hard or not.
 

[FBC] ESAM

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It isn't, i think he meant the last D-throw to U-smash.

I'm going to test every single one. Are they all with fresh D-throw besides the "Weird" ones like Snake and DDD?
 

Ussi

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I was talking about fox vs MK

And i would assume fresh yes unless stated otherwise. I'm gonna test this now too.
 

The Truth!

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It isn't, i think he meant the last D-throw to U-smash.

I'm going to test every single one. Are they all with fresh D-throw besides the "Weird" ones like Snake and DDD?
We don't know, some of them have odd set-ups that might require pummeling, etc.
 
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