Fthrow/Dthrow Chaingrab Thread

[Pikabunz]

Options after dthrow from fastest to slowest.

ftilt (up) - 5 frames
grab - 6
dsmash - 6
nair - 7
reverse utilt - 7
usmash - 9
utilt - 9

Nair is the best to use after a cg.

 

[nothing.]

reverse up tilt is probably the best choice.
it doesn't have the most damage, but it puts you in a better position.
forward tilt could be good if you really want that extra few %.
up smash could be an option in some situation as well.

killing the option of neutral air for KO is not a good choice at all.
neutral air out of shield is one of pikachu's main KO method and if you lose it,
your opponenct could predict and avoid your kill moves a lot easier since they
have one less move to worry about.

at least that is what i think.

 

[Pikabunz]

I think reverse up tilt might be 8 frames. but it's still better than normal utilt.

 

[Roller]

...

nevermind

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Reverse u-tilt is turning around and u-tilting in this case?

 

[Piman34]

hey testers, or anyone really, i noticed captain falcon and fox aren't on the list. is this because there is no set percentage you have to grab them by in order to buffer dthrows to combo them? Even if that is the case, I would like to know a max damage cap for them just to have on hand :]

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Basically for Fox, U-smash them the throw they get above 100%. Falcon its around 70 i think...i don't remember off of the top of my head.

 

[Piman34]

so after 100% don't regrab just usmash? okay, and I'll test falcon i guess, not that anyone plays him lol

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

We tested fox a while back, idk why it isn't on the OP.

 

[KuroKitt10]

We tested fox a while back, idk why it isn't on the OP.

It should be.

Also, I had a question about chain grabs. Will throwing some extra pummels anywhere in any of these chain grabs affect their effectiveness (other than moving you closer to the damage caps)?

The reason I ask, is that it seems like it might be a good idea to throw in a pummel (or two, depending on how high of a percent they're at) between each re-grab to add just a tad more damage, possibly cutting back on the overall number of grabs needed, and cutting back slightly on the "oops I ****ed it up" factor.

For example, After FThrowing Falco Twice, Regrab, Pummel, Downthrow-regrab, Pummel, Downthrow-regrab, Pummel x2, etc. untill you reach that 100% mark. (I'm not actually sure on how many pummels you can get away with at what percentages. Does anyone know where these figures are? Or has anyone bothered to look into Pummel percentages? It seems like we could steal a few extra percentage off of our final regrab as well).

Meow?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I don't think so. I don't want to test whether or not a pummel changes it...so you can if you want.

 

[Sei Shin Casios]

i dont think it would still work, because you need the stale d-throw at high%. if its only staled for 4 or 5 times, i guess they can jump out.

 

[Piman34]

does the grab attack refresh staled moves? I forget, but that would be the only reason to not do it against characters that need staled d-throws to work, if it does. Well another reason may be that if they are smart and good at escaping grabs, if you pummel them they will be able to escape the grab, since its not being buffered into a throw anymore for the frames that you're pummeling

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Yes it does refresh piman.

 

[The Truth!]

Ok, all updated. Nice finds.

Also, since there wasnt much testing done on the original CG's Im not going to do guesswork and attempt to put them in. Same with fox.

Also, for those that can be fthrown it might be worth finding out if a dthrows is guaranteed at any time in the middle of the Fthrow CG, since it can extend the damage for some characters that cant realistically be fthrown 5 or 6 times across a stage. DK comes to mind.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Wow I love Pikachu.

 

[Sanu]

What the **** Pikachu is broken.

New main, lmao.

 

[KayLo!]

What the **** Pikachu is broken.

New main, lmao.

*eye twitch*

On another note, I've decided to just.... give in and start CGing regularly. It helps in tourney matches, and if I don't do it in friendlies, I'll never get the timing down (since practicing on CPUs only helps but so much)..... it still feels so wrong, though....

Ouch, my morals hurt. ><

 

[Piman34]

pika > morals imo

 

[philbobjoe]

pika > morals imo

Quoted for truth.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

If you are gonna play friendlies you should ALWAYS play as good as you can, so you can excel. If you half-*** friendlies you will never grow except in tournament, but the people who will friendly seriously will grow and a much faster pace, therefore leaving you in the dust. I CG EVERY match i can unless the person specifically requests not to, and in that case its just because i three stock them over and over... I always play as good as i can. Obviously in tournament i will play better just because i have the adrenalin and I'm playing much more carefully becasue if i **** up i get knocked out so there are things that I can't control, but still, try your best in EVERY match.

 

[KayLo!]

If you are gonna play friendlies you should ALWAYS play as good as you can, so you can excel. If you half-*** friendlies you will never grow except in tournament, but the people who will friendly seriously will grow and a much faster pace, therefore leaving you in the dust. I CG EVERY match i can unless the person specifically requests not to, and in that case its just because i three stock them over and over... I always play as good as i can. Obviously in tournament i will play better just because i have the adrenalin and I'm playing much more carefully becasue if i **** up i get knocked out so there are things that I can't control, but still, try your best in EVERY match.

Eh, I sometimes half-a** friendlies at big tournies or play characters I don't really play just so I don't give away my playstyle. The exception is if the tourney is over or if I'm playing someone I know since they've probably already seen me play my best. Or at small biweeklies where it's usually the same people over and over anyway.

I just don't like CGing in general. It's boring, feels dickish.... I realize it's all for the win or whatever (which is why I've decided to start doing it whenever I can), but when it's not fun for either party, it just kills my mood to play a little bit.

But that's just me: I like playing Brawl for competition and fun. In the case of CGing, I had to choose one over the other, because pressing Z and down on the control stick over and over isn't my idea of a good time.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Good point KLo. But really, it doesn't matter if you keep your playstyle to yourself in a tuornament or not. The only people you will have to worry about are the ones who will adapt in the first match, so it won't really matter or not since they will get used to it anyway. What you should do is try to friendly the other people and get how their playstyle is so if you do fight them you already have an idea of what they're playstyle is, even if they change a few things.

 

[Harbinger631]

This actually works against ZSS? I thought mashing her down b got her out of pretty much everything.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

It's with F-throw, not D-throw. D-throw she can down-b out of it, but F-throw she can't if you buffer it right.

 

[tha_carter]

Itd be useful to add what percentages you can start the chain grab at besides 0. Because chances are you wont be able to grab any character at zero. There are some really useful percentages posted throughout the thread, just quote them, and add them to the OP....

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Carter, you can do some of that testing...its a ***** to know when to start...like its really tedious and a ****load of work.

 

[Piman34]

btw guys esam's middle name is lazy


JK <3 u esam

 

[KuroKitt10]

Carter, you can do some of that testing...its a ***** to know when to start...like its really tedious and a ****load of work.

ESAM, what exactly are the "agreed" upon testing methods for these chain grabs? If I can get ahold of a Wii and some free time I wouldn't mind testing some stuff, though I'm not really sure what the methodology for testing these things is - how to go about testing these things. Any advice?

Mew.

 

[upwndbykaiibi]

I might just try this out when I get a chance!^^

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You use debug mode and test every single one frame by frame but not in training mode.

 

[Mumble]

That video scared me.

 

[KayLo!]

ESAM, what exactly are the "agreed" upon testing methods for these chain grabs? If I can get ahold of a Wii and some free time I wouldn't mind testing some stuff, though I'm not really sure what the methodology for testing these things is - how to go about testing these things. Any advice?

Mew.

You use debug mode and test every single one frame by frame but not in training mode.

Kitt, I can help you out with hacks and whatnot if you need it. I'm usually online (either on SWF or AIM or in the chat) at night during the week -- or the weekend before I go out -- so if you IM/PM me or whatever, I should answer eventually. Sometimes I randomly go afk for long periods of time, but I always come back, hehe.

 

[KuroKitt10]

Kitt, I can help you out with hacks and whatnot if you need it. I'm usually online (either on SWF or AIM or in the chat) at night during the week -- or the weekend before I go out -- so if you IM/PM me or whatever, I should answer eventually. Sometimes I randomly go afk for long periods of time, but I always come back, hehe.

Gotcha. I'll add you on AIM, and bug you the next time I see that you're on.

Mew.

 

[Xyro77]

Question: if i practice this new CG stuff on a CPU will it still work or will it all need to be done on a human player? Im talking about the timing and stuff mainly.

Xyro really wants to pick up pika for the ddd match-up.

DDD is stupid and i want to beat the **** out of him with pika.

 

[KayLo!]

Question: if i practice this new CG stuff on a CPU will it still work or will it all need to be done on a human player? Im talking about the timing and stuff mainly.

You can practice on a CPU to get down the general timing and how it should look, visually (especially for the buffered dthrows), but a CPU won't be able to break out at times that a human player would be able to.

It's a good starting point, but practicing vs. a human -- specifically, someone who knows how to SDI and all that good stuff -- is better.

 

[Van Jones]

Question: if i practice this new CG stuff on a CPU will it still work or will it all need to be done on a human player? Im talking about the timing and stuff mainly.

Xyro really wants to pick up pika for the ddd match-up.

DDD is stupid and i want to beat the **** out of him with pika.

Xyro, if you don't have the cgs down before HOBO 16, I'll show you the timing before the tourney starts. They are really easy to do.

 

[Piman34]

also, something i noticed, is if you hear the sound of pika re-grabbing and also throwing/smacking on the ground, then you're not buffering it. you need to do it so its silent or at least those sounds don't go, to get the timing right

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Question: if i practice this new CG stuff on a CPU will it still work or will it all need to be done on a human player? Im talking about the timing and stuff mainly.

Xyro really wants to pick up pika for the ddd match-up.

DDD is stupid and i want to beat the **** out of him with pika.

actually i have noticed that when a cg stops, its because you cant grab them anymore. i actually tried it on a cpu once and thats what happened. he didnt jump out, the grab just didnt grab anything.

 

[NinjaLink]

Has anyone figured out the combination of grabs/throws on wario?