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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

RaynEX

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
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Corneria, Lylat System
Fox vs. Mario...?

Don't get grabbed and spam shine...

Evrything you have beats his. Just don't get caped. Fox vs. Sheik can be based soley on drillshines, uthrow uairs, and of course the UTILT.

Waveshining backwards: Jump before you angle the control stick and WD. Otherwise, you'll turn around in the shine, which is what is probably happening to you.
 
JAC_Jose

JAC_Jose

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
21
Location
Yuma AZ
I have a question...do you have to do a perfect wavedash to waveshine from a standing posistion or from after a dair?? I could waveshine if I run towards an opponent but i cant do it from a standing position or after i do a dair..they always seem to go further after the shine and i cant reach them after i wavedash into another shine..
 
mikeHAZE

mikeHAZE

Smash Legend
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
11,004
Location
North Hollywood, CA
long wavedashes are preferable, but i dont think they have to be "perfect," since i'm sure you, nor the majority of the smash community knows what that term truly means.
 
Oskurito

Oskurito

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
1,948
Location
Hell
brawlpro said:
just walk a little in between shines to waveshine someone, perfect wavedashes aren't needed to waveshine if that was your question earlier?
Click to expand...
That's the way I told you, and that's the way zelgadis does it.

But it's better if you can do a very long wavedash instead of walking a little, but waveshine-walking is fine to begin with (but not against link tho)

Watch DBR evolution-zelgadis(ignore the first part, just watch the gameplay) and check out how zelgadis does his waveshines, that should be enough.
 
GOTM

GOTM

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
2,776
Location
West Chester, PA
you'll get better at wavedashing longer just with more play time at the game. just start walking a lil after you wavedash for waveshining in the beginning, and then just naturally you'll realize you wont have to as much anymore.
 
Oskurito

Oskurito

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Hell
Sssurivad said:
How do I waveshine -> up smash immediately? Like before the opponent is pushed back all the way, making it inescapable. I'll edit with a clip of what I'm talking about shortly, looking now. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
run>shine>jump(controlstick up)>up-smash (c-stick up)

// is better to press both sticks up at the same time. Not useful, just kinda flashy
 
S

Sssurivad

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
86
Ah I see, so I need the momentum of the dash and I'll keep moving forwards? It's not just incredibly fast shine -> wavedash -> up smash? Thank you, by the way.
 
Oskurito

Oskurito

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Messages
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Sssurivad said:
Ah I see, so I need the momentum of the dash and I'll keep moving forwards? It's not just incredibly fast shine -> wavedash -> up smash? Thank you, by the way.
Click to expand...
If you're somehow refering to this combo: upthrow>waveshine>up-smash ; then yes, is fast and long as hell, but not too hard to do when you get used to it
 
Brookman

Brookman

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
6,202
Location
pikachu
Sssurivad said:
How do I waveshine -> up smash immediately? Like before the opponent is pushed back all the way, making it inescapable. I'll edit with a clip of what I'm talking about shortly, looking now. Thanks in advance.

EDIT:


Approximately 1:22 here.
Click to expand...
That's not a wavshine. It's just a JC up smash out of shine. It works by using running momentum to move you forward after you shine.
 
S

Sssurivad

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
86
I'm talking about waveshine -> upsmash, but in the video he does it in less than a second. Whenever I waveshine, I have to dash forward then upsmash. Basically, I can't move fast enough in the wavedash out of the shine in order to catch him with the upsmash before he moves out of my range (because of the shine).

EDIT: Ah, I see. Thank you both very much.
 
4 Aces

4 Aces

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
892
When you're shl'ing, is the timing and rhythm slower when you're retreating with shl's? (Dash away --> rshl --> dash away --> rshl) Does it take longer to turn around or something?

Also, I notice that after I shl, if I hold down and roll it to sideways (instead of letting the control stick go back to neutral), I can immediately dash away (for rshl). Is this supposed to happen or something or am I seeing things.
 
T

tutata

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
519
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Hey silent wolf im not sure if this has been answered cuz this is the 100th page and i did not want to look at all the previous pages, but anyways here the question. OK so i need help with the running turn around laser, if thats the right name =_= "when fox is running and turns around and lasers. So then i went and tried to do it so then i found out that b4 you jump you press down right to turn around and laser. Anyways i have been looking at the vids and found this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZDRzPKGWFQ
So at 1:17 zelgadis turns around and lasers and back airs roy and comes back. Also in eggz new vid at 1:35 he turns around and laser of 1 jump and edge hogs to for the kill. Can you guys give me some help on when to do the tequnique, and if noing it right be pressing down and back then laser to shoot around.
 
SCOTU

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
6,636
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Northville, MI
i'm not silent wolf, but i hope i can help.
It's called, in it's most general terms, a turn-around neutral b. For fox/ falco, it's usually reffered to as the rshl (reverse short hop laser - although the zelgadis clip is full hopped). You perform it by running (holding the control stick forward), jump, tap the control stick the opposite direction - making sure it returns to the neutral position, then pressing b, then fast falling. (variations on the FF timing make different hight lasers). It's typically used for retreating while shooting lasers, as a campy technique. It also gets used by some ppl (such as eggz) for a quick edgehog. Zelgadis' use for it is older, and generally performed w/ a shine turnaround now.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
so scotu i can't combo jiggs till 27% out of upthrow to upair

when does it end on an upper cap? i heard that it only works at low-mid percents and then jiggs can jump out cause she is thrown too high.

is this true?
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
does the front or the back of fox have a larger shine? or neither? just wondering if there is an advantage when shining at the ledge to facing backwards..or if you just do that so you can wavedash to the ledge afterwards easier.
 
SCOTU

SCOTU

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the shine extends slightly farther to fox's back, although, the difference isn't significant for stuff like shinespikeing illusions and what not.
 
SCOTU

SCOTU

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you press b 1 frame before the frame you want to stop on. there are 5 lengths ranging from very short to full length. each distance is separated by 1 frame.
 
K

Kanibasami

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
9
i wonder why i cant waveshine with fox =S
without an enemy i can waveshine pretty well but if i try to waveshine Link it doesnt work.

i waveshine like this:
[down B --> slide my thumb over A to X --> perform a wavedash] repeat several times...

but now when i try this against an enemy i do the same at exactly the same speed i may think but at the point where i slide my thumb over A to X Fox just dont jump out of the shine.

can anybody help me? am i to fast or to slow or something else?
 
Silent Wolf

Silent Wolf

...
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
10,463
Location
the west
Kanibasami said:
i wonder why i cant waveshine with fox =S
without an enemy i can waveshine pretty well but if i try to waveshine Link it doesnt work.

i waveshine like this:
[down B --> slide my thumb over A to X --> perform a wavedash] repeat several times...

but now when i try this against an enemy i do the same at exactly the same speed i may think but at the point where i slide my thumb over A to X Fox just dont jump out of the shine.

can anybody help me? am i to fast or to slow or something else?
Click to expand...
Usually sliding is the fastest method, so you may be going too fast. Also, if you're going at the exact same speed you do as when you aren't waveshining a character, like you say you are, that also makes it sound like you're going too fast. When you hit someone with your shine, you have hit lag and can't jump out of it as fast as you normally would be able to, making the timing different. You will just have to get used to doing it slower I suppose.
 
I

IrArby

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
883
Location
Portsmouth VA
If i properly drillshine a marth and follow it up with a well timed wavedash is there still enough lag time to JCupsmash him before his hit lag ends? Im pretty sure its possible with bad or no DI but I'm not sure if its even possible on a marth that DIs away. I haven't completly mastered waveshining or drillshining yet so practicing either on friends to experiment how they DI is impossible at the moment.
 
SCOTU

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
6,636
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Northville, MI
Practicing at Melee is actually rather difficulter and worse usually to try at different speeds. There is only one speed that you play at (1x). Practicing at a slower speed only means that, more or less, you'll be relearning it almost completely at a different speed. Because for something like a drillshine, there is a "too fast", and once you know the motions (jump, dair, lcancel, shine) at one speed, you don't know them at another. It's relatively easy to get the motions down, it's just the right timings you need. To do it at a slower speed (because you can dair too early), you're limiting yourself. On the other side, someone whose mastered it (consistently gets 6 hits on a drill kick), has mastered the timing, not the speed. If they tried it on a faster speed, they'll only be doing worse. There are not any manuevers that require raw speed as opposed to just learning the right timing.

Just practice doing drillshines at normal speed, so that you'll have the right timing for leaving the ground (you don't want to input the dair before you're in the air), and have the right timing for the lcancel.

Hint: an easy way to do an aerial asap is to use the z button (so your thumb doesn't have to move at all).
 
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