• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
Location
Corneria, Lylat System
Marth has advantage on FD, obviously.

Every other neutral stage is pretty even. Fox ***** Marth on all counter-pick stages because Marth sucks on all CPs.

Both characters need to grab alot, its just that Marth can kill out of his potentially. Platforms on the neutrals disrupt that, imo thats what makes it even.

Because Marth only has a clear advantage on FD, and Fox can do all the gay things he normally does on all stages anyways:

match up is liike 55:45 for Fox. If the Fox camps its really, really gay too.
 

Tero.

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,686
How does auto SDI work? I read through InfernoOmni's guide for Fox some years ago and I don't remember seeing it in there. I could be wrong, it was a looong time ago...
Automatic Smash DI :

An Automatic Smash DI takes place there on the 1st frame after the hitlag.
It's automatic because you don't have to smash anything to do it, the game just reads the position of your control stick or C-stick on the last frame of hitlag.
The C-stick outprioritizes the control stick. You can hold 2 different directions, the game will use the C-stick for the ASDI : you can DI one way and ASDI another way.

The ASDI is exactly like Smash DI except that it goes less far, and you don't see it very well because you're sent flying at the same time.
On techable hits, it can make you tech on walls or ceiling just as well.
One very important thing is that you can tech on the floor as well if the ASDI makes you go down on that frame.
The instant ground techs on other moves than Fox's shine all come from this.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218

Edit: Marth vs Fox is pretty even, 50:50 Marth has an advantage on FD and Fox has an advantage on most counterpick stages, but generally i would say 50:50.
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
3,186
Location
Göteborg, Sweden
u can shine earlier if u di up
DI'ing up doesn't have any effect since you're di-ing along the same line of the original trajectory.

@ raynex thanks for the info dude. Are they the exact same for fox and falco? (not falcon the sexy car racer im talking about falco the negro bird)

I think marth has an advantage over fox, but it's prolly just me sucking at the matchup. Also I can't combo marth worth **** if they SDI the uair.
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
Location
Corneria, Lylat System
someone wanna gimme tipz, it's a friendly from e52 so there's more showing off, but it's the latest i got at the moment and any advice at all's good nuff.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6KL38MoGpw
You need to DD more. Sometimes you just move around lazily and get hit randomly. Use your shield more, because I think you blocked only like 3 attacks. Run and shield, and do stuff out of it.

You also only performed one successful grab that entire match. You need to grab alot more. I know you were trying to be fancy and stuff, but the basics weren't even present in that match.

-edge-guarding
-grab **** = combos
-blocking and playing out of your shield intelligently

All I saw were a bunch of waveshines.

<3 Bpro

DI'ing up doesn't have any effect since you're di-ing along the same line of the original trajectory.

@ raynex thanks for the info dude. Are they the exact same for fox and falco? (not falcon the sexy car racer im talking about falco the negro bird)

I think marth has an advantage over fox, but it's prolly just me sucking at the matchup. Also I can't combo marth worth **** if they SDI the uair.
I'll ask M2K about that. But yea, even he will agree that Fox has the advantage. In the match-up he has a very slight one. Overall he is a better character, so it makes sense in my head. The whole prospect of uthrow = free move is really dumb. Whether it be uair or bair. One mistake from your opponent and that single free hit turns into a free combo.

What I do vs. Marths that sdi alot (i.e.: M2k, sometimes Cactus, Marths in my area):

When I uthrow, they d.i. one way from the throw. To SDI, they almost always SDI in the opposite direction of the trajectory they are currently flying in.

i.e.: Fox uthrows -> Marth d.i.s left -> Fox uair -> Marth SDI's right

What you would do here is manipulate their d.i. for a free combo. After you throw them and they d.i. to the left, jump up really fast and towards their left side. Bair them, and voila, instant fail d.i.

Chances are they'll just fly off the side at a horrendous angle because there were d.i.ing that way, expecting the uair.

For even more lulz:

You know that uthrow Bair FF utilt combo on Marth? Wouldn't it be alot easier to get if they d.i.ed the bair INTO you so that when you landed they'd always be falling on top of you and be even more susceptible to the utilt?

Well, if they attempt to SDI like I mentioned earlier, things become much easier.

Uthrow -> Marth d.i.s right, you jump really quickly into this Marth (who is at low%) and do a bair going forwards. I don't think it matters if you get the weak hit or strong hit...but yea. You FF after the hit. Because the Marth tried to SDI to the left, they'll have unintentionally d.i.ed into your bair. When you land, they'll be right above you. Utilt beats everything Marth has from below that isn't a really early/well-timed dair (and obviously counter).

But you don't need to worry about that stuff because he's at low percent and has a split second before he gets hit by your utilt anyways. I've done this using nair instead of bair once. Its amazing how many combos are handed to do if your opponent d.i.s into your hits.

Sorry for the long post.

There is only one other really good Fox main in my area. Then its one Sheik and a bunch of Marths. = / the majority of combos I have to make-up usually involve a mid-weight. Contrary to popular belief, its pretty easy to death combo Sheik/Marth.
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
3,186
Location
Göteborg, Sweden
Wow those are some great tips raynex. read all of it. thanks man =D
I gotta stop just reflexively uairing everything
*starts experimenting with uthrow bair combos*

@ brawlpro
holy **** nair shffl to doubleshine? i had no idea that was possible LOL
is something like.... nair shine-bair on the ground possible? O.o
 

Tero.

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,686
I'll ask M2K about that. But yea, even he will agree that Fox has the advantage.
M2K said that Marth vs Fox is even, especially on neutral stages.
Marth has the advantage on FD and Fox on PS
 

Tero.

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,686
m2k's opinion isn't law
M2K > Melee = Isai > SSB64 > Brawl

Anyway i think that at high level smash play Fox = Marth, Fox is overall better because he has better matchups against other chars.

Edit: Also it's easier to play consistent with Marth than with Fox.
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
Location
Corneria, Lylat System
M2K > Melee = Isai > SSB64 > Brawl

Anyway i think that at high level smash play Fox = Marth, Fox is overall better because he has better matchups against other chars.

Edit: Also it's easier to play consistent with Marth than with Fox.
In the match-up:

Its either a tiny bit in Fox's favour, or even. But that can change depending on the level that is being played.

As characters in relation to each other:

Fox's gay stuff are easier to do than Marth's gay stuff. Why waste time spacing and attempting grab combos that don't kill every character and can be foiled by proper d.i.?

With Fox its like grab = any move. Usually it = uair and that kills at insanely low percents. Usmash is so broken.
Lasers are easy to abuse.
Shine-spiking is really, really easy.

imo Fox has alot of really easy strategies that even mediocre players can apply properly.

Oh, and Fox is good vs. more characters AND on a ****load more levels.

Alot of the time it looks like things tip in Fox's favour.

The real debate here should be is Sheik a better character than Fox.
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
Location
Corneria, Lylat System
that wasn't the question silly. I already knew that.

I mean as characters in relation to the rest of the cast. Fox or Sheik? Who should be top of top.

imo its Sheik.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Falco is even or Falco's favour depending on who you ask.

Marth is even or Fox's favour depending on who you ask.

Sheik is even or Fox's favour depending on who you ask.

Samus is even or Fox's favour depending on who you ask.
 

Tero.

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,686
How many bad matchups does fox have? None really... Sheik is kinda bad vs IC. I think fox is still #1
IC > Sheik was like 2 years ago, that MU is pretty even, probably in Sheiks favor who knows...

Anyway imo sheik is #1 (NTSC) but PAL --> Fox > Sheik
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
Location
Corneria, Lylat System
Falco is even or Falco's favour depending on who you ask.

Marth is even or Fox's favour depending on who you ask.

Sheik is even or Fox's favour depending on who you ask.

Samus is even or Fox's favour depending on who you ask.
I think Sheik wins vs. everyone except maybe Fox. But even still its like, slight disadvantage vs. Fox and everyone else she beats. I don't care how annoying Falco seems, I feel Sheik ***** Falco with edge-gays and the fact he can't death combo her.

Her 3rd worst match-up is the ditto. : /
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
@RaynEX: Based off your reasoning wouldn't the ditto be her 2nd worst matchup? If Sheik ***** Falco then the ditto would be her 2nd worst matchup.
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
3,186
Location
Göteborg, Sweden
am i the only one who still thinks marth has the advantage over fox lmao
i swear to god before m2k starting saying it's even-ish or even in fox's favor it was considered a counter >.>
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
24,020
Location
Grancypher
fox > marth. ken even thought so. ken just knew the match up so well it didnt matter
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
Location
Corneria, Lylat System
@RaynEX: Based off your reasoning wouldn't the ditto be her 2nd worst matchup? If Sheik ***** Falco then the ditto would be her 2nd worst matchup.
Yea but I thought you or some other person was going to come in and complain about how hard Falco is for Sheik.

So I'm like..

self-contradiction ftw. I was basically predicting a " Fox > Falco > Ditto" post.

edit: Mike: Even when I sucked *** back in the day I felt Fox had the advantage. If you don't face him on FD its not that bad.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Falco's annoying.

I hate him.

I'm terrible against him so my opinion of him vs Sheik is horribly biased. Personally I feel her best traits are useless against him and that puts him at advantage but M2K says otherwise and I hear enough diversity in opinion (from both the Sheik = Falco and Sheik < Falco parties) to know it's not horrible **** or anything.
 

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
I think Sheik wins vs. everyone except maybe Fox. But even still its like, slight disadvantage vs. Fox and everyone else she beats. I don't care how annoying Falco seems, I feel Sheik ***** Falco with edge-gays and the fact he can't death combo her.

Her 3rd worst match-up is the ditto. : /
in order:
falco = maybe slight advantage
fox =
climbers = maybe slight advantage
sheik =
puff < maybe even
marth <
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
Location
Corneria, Lylat System
I don't think we've ever covered Fox vs. Mario/Doc now that I think about it.

Waveshine->grab is the only thing that works indefinitely on those two. Uthrow->uair is escapable at any percent. They can DJ out of it even at 0.
 

halcyon.days

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
485
Location
Edmonton, Alberta
I don't think we've ever covered Fox vs. Mario/Doc now that I think about it.

Waveshine->grab is the only thing that works indefinitely on those two. Uthrow->uair is escapable at any percent. They can DJ out of it even at 0.

But they're both pretty floaty (or at least Mario is) so they'll die at like 90% with a uair on most(?) stages.

But the only thing I can think of that they have going for them is the cape and chain grab (I'm not sure if Doc can cg)
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
Location
Corneria, Lylat System
Mario/Doc CC to grab works, but CC is most prevalent. Yea, CG works with Doc. Its better because both Doc's fsmash and fair have more K.O. potential than Mario's.

While in theory uairing would be cool, how do you propose on landing it when you can't combo it out of an uthrow? Mario/Doc tend to stay on the ground unless they are camping you with fireballs/pills.
 
Top Bottom