Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Lovage]

are there any recent videos of Jman?
ive heard so much

 

[HiIH]

You gotta remember that to tech Marth's counter, you have to delay your tech, since the hitbox comes out kinda late.

 

[RaynEX]

See guys, shine isn't that broken. Its just sort of broken.

Now lets list the characters we can CC shine on edge-guard if they miss the sweetspot etc etc:

Marth
Link
Y.Link
Luigi
DK
Roy but I think his upb has too much knockback. Samus has the same problem
Bowser?

I don't think I'm forgetting anything else. The characters I haven't mentioned are just blatently impossible to CC shine. i.e: Pika, Mewtwo, Sheik and the like.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

marth is too funny to do that to

 

[BrawlLover]

My response is predictable. I'm not even close imo.



Brawl/Jungle: PLEASE stop spamming the thread.



Decision-making...and using your brain while you're playing. I think thats the hardest thing to learn.

but you are still good no?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yeah i mean i think he's close to being there..he just needs more experience against top competition

 

[BrawlLover]

i've seen vids but i'd rather play him though, raynex, when's the next time you'll be in a tournament that's near nj.pa? dood come to spoc!

 

[DtJ Jungle]

clearly. playing is epic different than watching.

 

[BrawlLover]

i rarely base things off of vids anymore unlike most people

 

[KirbyKaze]

See guys, shine isn't that broken. Its just sort of broken.

Now lets list the characters we can CC shine on edge-guard if they miss the sweetspot etc etc:

Marth
Link
Y.Link
Luigi
DK
Roy but I think his upb has too much knockback. Samus has the same problem
Bowser?

I don't think I'm forgetting anything else. The characters I haven't mentioned are just blatently impossible to CC shine. i.e: Pika, Mewtwo, Sheik and the like.

See, when you do something like this, you send mixed messages.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

hehehehe mixed messages are sweet. you can always yell at someone for interpreting it wrong.

 

[halcyon.days]

See guys, shine isn't that broken. Its just sort of broken.

Now lets list the characters we can CC shine on edge-guard if they miss the sweetspot etc etc:

Marth
Link
Y.Link
Luigi
DK
Roy but I think his upb has too much knockback. Samus has the same problem
Bowser?

I don't think I'm forgetting anything else. The characters I haven't mentioned are just blatently impossible to CC shine. i.e: Pika, Mewtwo, Sheik and the like.

Yeah, it's only 1-frame start up kind of broken.

Is there a comprehensive list of moves you can CC (and their respective percentages, no less)

I rarely CC because when I learned to play I would always CC near edges and DI down to my doom and I've gotten out of that bad habit. So I stopped CC-ing but will probably add it back into my game.

Are there any attacks (that aren't grab attack, or multi-hit moves like Mario's d-air) that aren't CC-able?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

only CC at low percentages. otherwise most **** is ccable

 

[NintenJoe]

Two questions:

1. Can anyone seriously SH Double Laser while using the X or Y button to jump, or do you do it with tap jump?

2. How do I maximize distance on wavedashes to waveshine with one instead of two wavedashes? Tilt it even further in the direction I'm dashing or airdodge quicker?

 

[MaNg0]

Two questions:

1. Can anyone seriously SH Double Laser while using the X or Y button to jump, or do you do it with tap jump?

2. How do I maximize distance on wavedashes to waveshine with one instead of two wavedashes? Tilt it even further in the direction I'm dashing or airdodge quicker?

ur name *****

 

[DtJ Jungle]

...i only use y

tilt it further in the direction..almost horizontal...which means you have to airdodge quicker as well.

 

[halcyon.days]

Two questions:

1. Can anyone seriously SH Double Laser while using the X or Y button to jump, or do you do it with tap jump?

2. How do I maximize distance on wavedashes to waveshine with one instead of two wavedashes? Tilt it even further in the direction I'm dashing or airdodge quicker?

1. Yes, I can, however it's just easier for me to do it with the control stick, so that's what I use. However, sometimes in a match I'll just spam FF SHL and for that I'll use the Y button. You can actually do retreating SHDL with just the control stick (and some precision) as well as B.

2. A "perfect" wavedash is when your control stick is basically at a horizontal. Since Fox's wavedash isn't as good as, say, Marth or Luigi, you might want to practice with them before trying to perfect wavedash with Fox.

You can choose someone like Captain Falcon and practice perfect wavelanding on the platforms of stages like Dreamland or Yoshi's Story. If you do it correctly, you'll be able to cover the whole distance of 1 platform. (I say Captain Falcon because I know for sure he can do this, not sure about Fox)

 

[NintenJoe]

ur name *****

Thanks man. :]

...i only use y

Seriously? You must have to move your fingers pretty fast... O_O

tilt it further in the direction..almost horizontal...which means you have to airdodge quicker as well.

I airdodge pretty quickly as it is, so I probably just have to alter my fingers to a position where I can wavedash most effectively. Practicing a waveshine on Link is the best practice, I'm guessing?

Edit:

1. Yes, I can, however it's just easier for me to do it with the control stick, so that's what I use. However, sometimes in a match I'll just spam FF SHL and for that I'll use the Y button. You can actually do retreating SHDL with just the control stick (and some precision) as well as B.

I use the X button for wavedashing, so it's pretty hard to reach the B button fast enough. I'll just keep practicing.

2. A "perfect" wavedash is when your control stick is basically at a horizontal. Since Fox's wavedash isn't as good as, say, Marth or Luigi, you might want to practice with them before trying to perfect wavedash with Fox.

I secondary Luigi and I can get pretty good distance on his wavedash. It has a much more forgiving time frame than Fox's.

You can choose someone like Captain Falcon and practice perfect wavelanding on the platforms of stages like Dreamland or Yoshi's Story. If you do it correctly, you'll be able to cover the whole distance of 1 platform. (I say Captain Falcon because I know for sure he can do this, not sure about Fox)

Thanks for the advice, I'll try the platform thing with Falcon.

 

[Lovage]

practice on a peach

u will fight more

 

[halcyon.days]

I think Fox's wavedash is the fastest, too.

As in, you have to airdodge the quickest with him, as opposed to any other character.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

peach doesnt slide as far you dont have to do a long wd to grab or usmash her :/ i would do it on marth or falcon..because waveshining several times over and over doesnt present itself an opprotunity tat often.

 

[NintenJoe]

peach doesnt slide as far you dont have to do a long wd to grab or usmash her :/ i would do it on marth or falcon..because waveshining several times over and over doesnt present itself an opprotunity tat often.

Is WSing into a Shine Cancelled Dair a good approach? It's been working well for me against my friends, but I'm not sure it will fair well against competitive players...

 

[RaynEX]

Thanks man. :]Seriously? You must have to move your fingers pretty fast... O_O
.

Just slide your thumb from a jump button to B. Its not about being super fast. Just find a method and practice it. Thumb sliding imo is really good for SHDL.

Or you can position your thumb so that the bottom half of it is on B and the tip is on Y. Then you shift pressure really quickly, tapping each button with both parts of your thumb.

Sliding is more fruitful because it helps with other aspects of your Fox game. (i.e: thumb sliding for JC shines)

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Is WSing into a Shine Cancelled Dair a good approach? It's been working well for me against my friends, but I'm not sure it will fair well against competitive players...

wait...WHAT? you....waveshine..shine..then DAIR.....

try...dair l cancel shine or dair l cancel grab...or...dd grabs..or something.

 

[halcyon.days]

wait...WHAT? you....waveshine..shine..then DAIR.....

try...dair l cancel shine or dair l cancel grab...or...dd grabs..or something.

Wouldn't the shine after the waveshine knock them too far back for a dair?

And which character you are up against because if they fall/don't fall from shine you have a whole lot more options.

 

[NintenJoe]

wait...WHAT? you....waveshine..shine..then DAIR.....

try...dair l cancel shine or dair l cancel grab...or...dd grabs..or something.

No, I should have worded that differently.

I mean, like, cancelling the shine with a wavedash (using the wd to get close enough to the opponent), then following up with a Dair cancelled shine. It isn't a frame perfect combo, but it works against my friends.

It looks like this:

Shine -> Wavedash (to cancel shine) -> SHFFL Dair -> Shine -> Wavedash (to cancel shine) -> whatever

P.S. I play a Shiek, sometimes a Falco.

 

[halcyon.days]

No, I should have worded that differently.

I mean, like, cancelling the shine with a wavedash (using the wd to get close enough to the opponent), then following up with a Dair cancelled shine. It isn't a frame perfect combo, but it works against my friends.

It looks like this:

Shine -> Wavedash (to cancel shine) -> SHFFL Dair -> Shine -> Wavedash (to cancel shine) -> whatever

P.S. I play a Shiek, sometimes a Falco.

So drillshine. If you drillshine against an opponent who falls (Falco) end it with a jab (Thunders' combo) and continue to combo.

It works wonders against people who don't fall from shine and people who CC spam (peach, samus).

Sheik gets ***** by shine combos and uthrow to uairs. Once they're at a high enough percent waveshine -> usmash. Raynex has a topic in the fox boards about friendlies with KirbyKaze and it's basically a set of fox vs sheik, So that'd be good to look into.

Edit: Found it
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203805

CG against falco. Just remember that falco's recovery is crap.

I honestly don't have much experience against shiek but that's the little information I can give you.

 

[NintenJoe]

So drillshine. If you drillshine against an opponent who falls (Falco) end it with a jab (Thunders' combo) and continue to combo.

It works wonders against people who don't fall from shine and people who CC spam (peach, samus).

Sheik gets ***** by shine combos and uthrow to uairs. Once they're at a high enough percent waveshine -> usmash. Raynex has a topic in the fox boards about friendlies with KirbyKaze and it's basically a set of fox vs sheik, So that'd be good to look into.

Edit: Found it
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203805

CG against falco. Just remember that falco's recovery is crap.

I honestly don't have much experience against shiek but that's the little information I can give you.

Falco always falls down when he's shined... it's so annoying.

Thanks for all the info, though. Just one last question:

Best Fox stage? Not dependant on match-up, I know platformed stages are best against Marth's CG.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

For falco
waveshine jab reset (thunders combo)

 

[halcyon.days]

Falco always falls down when he's shined... it's so annoying.

Thanks for all the info, though. Just one last question:

Best Fox stage? Not dependant on match-up, I know platformed stages are best against Marth's CG.

Yoshi's story is good IF YOU ARE COMFORTABLE THERE.

Personally, I like PS, DL64, and FoD. But I think FoD and PS are good for him.

If you're talking about non-neutrals, Corneria and Green Greens.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Stadium

non neutrals...Floats if you feel like being gay.

 

[KirbyKaze]

shine falco and then tech chase with anything that leads into grab and he dies :D

 

[RaynEX]

Fox's best neutrals are PS and Yoshis imo. One has a low ceiling and is small for easy space control, the other has platforms that good for comboing.

The stage transformations on PS also help Fox out ALOT. Rock/Fire can be used to **** your opponent in the corner. I think as a whole PS is just amazing for Fox. Its a versatile stage for a versatile character.

Remember, don't spam drillshines on shields. If your friends get smart they'll realize they can grab you while you wavedash. To avoid this just drillshine and jump away or WD back if its blocked.

 

[RaynEX]

you also have to d.i. down and towards the stage.

Oh and you have to pray too. Otherwise Marth kills you, lol.

 

[KevinM]

I usually attempt to start crying so the Marth becomes concerned about me and turns so I can get back on stage.

 

[Da Shuffla]

Aren't drill>jab>grabs, or just drill> grabs, good on Falco, or is it better to just do Thunder's?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

oh...yeah you can do that :/ but....thunders looks cooler...and thats the reason why most of us play fox anyway right?

 

[halcyon.days]

oh...yeah you can do that :/ but....thunders looks cooler...and thats the reason why most of us play fox anyway right?

Guilty. Actually the one reason I forced myself to learn shine-bair is because it looks flashy.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

oh...im too much of a spammer to learn that ish

 

[Da Shuffla]

Second only to winning in every Fox players' mind is looking as sexy as possible.