Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[SSBMLahti]

If you're dash dancing and still getting hit, work on your movement and spacing. Fox wins the neutral in three ways IMO

1. Dash dance and punish whiffed attacks and approaches. Fox's DD is amazing
2. Laser camp and make them approach, a lot of chars have terrible approaches
3. Do smart approaches, overshot nairs, run forward > WD back, etc., running shine

I tend to do all of those, with the exception of laser camping because even when I do laser camp I still tend to be the aggressor. But like you said, I believe spacing is my biggest flaw, and I'll definitely work on it!

Thanks.

 

[Super]

If you're still trying to get the timing down for punishing techs then I wouldn't recommend relying on a timing as specific as SDI on Falco's shine. Generally to avoid getting combod you should just DI the shine towards whichever side you get hit on (away from him) so you go further. A low %s it's much easier to SDI his dair to avoid getting combod than his shine, which you may need to do either left or right depending on whichever direction will put you further from where he's gonna land.

Just practice the timing for placing the uair after the tech. Also try spacing it so you can follow up with a shine if they roll without having to run because usually you won't have time to get the shine otherwise. On stadium and yoshis platforms you can full jump auto cancel the uair (if you do it very quickly while rising) to cover the tech in place and still have time to dash grab/usmash the rolls. Uair isn't always the best option tho.

Thanks for the tips I'll work on the timings. And great performance at Evo SW.

 

[unknown522]

you can get it on marth at 0% if he doesn't DI. 10% if he DIs behind you.

Edit: also if marth DIs your u-throw to a side between 90-105%, you can do a FH u-air and connect the 2nd hit only, so no chance of SDI.

 

[Stijn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijXTioFlI4o&index=12&list=UUkVxweGe6XK_vu_EvJjH8NQ
Hey guys, i was playing Jeapie yesterday and I felt like i was doing pretty well against him, (espiacelly after i saw him 3-0 Amsah in grands) although i think i could have done better. Do you have any tips? And what i am doing good and bad?

(btw, the falco in this video isn't me, title is wrong)

 

[BTmoney]

am I the only one who thinks that the Marth MU is the only one where you need to be aggressive (aggression vs. Falco isn't bad either imo)? he's a lot worse at running away than fox is so I feel like aggressively spacing your DD and encroaching on him sort of defeats him on a fundamental level as long as you're mixing him up decently and placing some good nairs or running shines in. thoughts?

marth is def a weak MU for me as fox. these are just some ideas I've been thinking about to implement in the future

 

[Bones0]

am I the only one who thinks that the Marth MU is the only one where you need to be aggressive (aggression vs. Falco isn't bad either imo)? he's a lot worse at running away than fox is so I feel like aggressively spacing your DD and encroaching on him sort of defeats him on a fundamental level as long as you're mixing him up decently and placing some good nairs or running shines in. thoughts?

marth is def a weak MU for me as fox. these are just some ideas I've been thinking about to implement in the future

I used to be hyper aggressive all the time, and then more recent attempts to play more patient have just left me feeling predictable because I was basically camping for small segments of time between aggressive bursts. My current theory on aggressive vs. defensive play is that if your style can be defined as either, you're probably being too predictable. Maybe that's oversimplifying an extremely complex aspect of the game, but I think it has helped me keep a healthy balance of pressure and patience when I'm actually playing. As soon as I start thinking about being aggressive or defensive, I feel like I pigeonhole myself into a certain group of actions instead of just choosing the best one for that specific situation. This dynamic seems especially noticeable when people try to laser. They are either in "laser mode" or "DD mode" or "SHFFL mode". All of these different style archetypes are relatively easy to counter when they are separate and distinct, but fusing them together seems to yield more cohesive gameplay with less sporadic results.

 

[supreme jd]

I'm currently trying to learn SHFFL'd Nair into Shine to counter Shield Grabbing (practicing on 20XX against Marth set to shield grab). Is it guaranteed no matter how close/early I do the Nair? Also, is SHFFL'd Nair into shine the only aerial Fox has that is safe on shield, or can I use Bair too?

 

[T r a n]

Look up SCOTU's "Shield Pressure Project" and Kirbykaze's "Shield Pressure Frame Data" posts on smashboards (I would link, but I don't have enough posts to do that yet).

Looking at the green and red portions, you can see that nair, bair, and dair shine are all not shield grabbable (before shine at least) if done at certain times. You have to do the nair late in order to avoid getting shield grabbed before the shine. This opens you up to being anti-aired, grabbed after the shine, or even grabbed while in the air though. You have to think about the holes in your shield pressure and use it to mix up and confuse your opponent with the timings. All the variants of nair and bair pressure have a purpose, just use them well. You should also consider spacing around shield grab, or crossing up the shield with your pressure.

 

[TAG$]

Playing against Marth is defenetly hard for fox. Marth just somehow kills you if you put yourself in any vulnerable situations. I say the most important thing in the matchup when your fox against a marth is movement if your stationary more times than not your gonna get *****,don't laser to much your gonna get *****.if you do laser make sure marth is on the the complete opposite side of the stage from you and try and get your double lasers down.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You can uthrow uair those guys, it just takes a little more work and isn't always a true combo. The secret is to use your uair's priority to beat any attack that they could use to break out, then if they choose to jump you simply watch which way they go and uair them. Against samus, she can use downb to try to escape, but if you do it properly your uair will break the bomb without hurting you.

 

[Gami]

When playing as Fox, or any character for that matter, is it recommended to to use the C-stick rather than the control stick + a for smashes and aerials?I find using control stick + a to be much more comfortable. I'm wondering if this is a bad habit to get into or if it really doesn't matter in the long run. I do a lot of practice in training mode since I don't have many people around to play with. The C-stick is disabled in training mode which is a real bummer. I know I can use the name glitch and activate it I just haven't yet.

Can I get some pros and cons on C-stick vs control stick + a?
Consider this combo with fox, short hop > Dair > L-cancel > shine. This is what I have been practicing so I can start performing the waveshine combo.

 

[Bones0]

When playing as Fox, or any character for that matter, is it recommended to to use the C-stick rather than the control stick + a for smashes and aerials?I find using control stick + a to be much more comfortable. I'm wondering if this is a bad habit to get into or if it really doesn't matter in the long run. I do a lot of practice in training mode since I don't have many people around to play with. The C-stick is disabled in training mode which is a real bummer. I know I can use the name glitch and activate it I just haven't yet.

Can I get some pros and cons on C-stick vs control stick + a?
Consider this combo with fox, short hop > Dair > L-cancel > shine. This is what I have been practicing so I can start performing the waveshine combo.

The control stick isn't cancer, but the C-stick is definitely going to give you more control in terms of your character's aerial drift, so it's just better to use it whenever possible. It also lets you smash attack a few frames earlier because I think smashing with the stick+A always has a few charge frames no matter how quickly you let go of A.

 

[tauKhan]

It depends: For me at least, using a is usually a bit faster, so I use a when I do bair OoS for example. On the other hand c-stick gives you more control, since you don't have to use control stick for the attack. For smashes with fox, c-stick is better.

It also lets you smash attack a few frames earlier because I think smashing with the stick+A always has a few charge frames no matter how quickly you let go of A.

No, you'll only start charging if you are still holding a on the charging frame. So it depends on the smash attack you are doing. Foxes usmash and dsmash charge on 2nd frame, so it's very very hard to not charge them, as you would have to press the a for exactly 1 frame. Foxes fsmash on the other hand is easy to do without charging with a.

 

[Gami]

The control stick isn't cancer, but the C-stick is definitely going to give you more control in terms of your character's aerial drift, so it's just better to use it

When you say aerial drift do you mean my horizontal movement in the air? Am I able to move slightly to the left or right while performing a dair, bair, nair, or uair?

 

[T r a n]

When you say aerial drift do you mean my horizontal movement in the air? Am I able to move slightly to the left or right while performing a dair, bair, nair, or uair?

Yes, you are. It's useful in a lot of cases, like during shield pressure to fade back or forward on shield to bait something like a shield grab (and you fade back) or reposition yourself behind them. It's also useful for up throw uair because sometimes your opponent will DI left or right. You can also use aerial drift to space your aerials as you approach. Fox and Falco have the least aerial drift in the game, but you can still make use of it a lot.

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

Any tips on uthrow uairing puff? Even if I buffer the frame 2 jump I still can't get there in time usually >_> This is the only character I have problems doing this combo on.

 

[Bones0]

Any tips on uthrow uairing puff? Even if I buffer the frame 2 jump I still can't get there in time usually >_> This is the only character I have problems doing this combo on.

Go into Training Mode and uthrow uair until your fingers bleed. There's not that many things you can be messing up on a no-DI uthrow uair.
1. Input your FH as early as possible.
2. Input your DJ as early as possible (you want your DJ to barely reach the opponent).
3. Start the uair as early as possible.

Start on heavier characters and/or higher percents first, then gradually decrease the weight/percent as much as possible. I believe I posted the approximate %s on the last page or the one before, so just go by that.

Also, don't buffer your jump. Humans will be DIing so using a shield to buffer a FH will prevent you from dashing. You can tap jump to buffer for 3 frames and DJ uair with Y+A, but again, that can be tricky if you have to dash for a very small number of frames before jumping. I actually prefer to FH with Y then DJ uair with tap jump+A.

 

[tauKhan]

Also remember that uthrow animation length is weight dependent, so you need to act faster the lighter char you are throwing, though on lighter chars you also have larger frame advantage.

 

[Sinji]

Can Sheik's bair pressure be countered with WD OOS>upsmash or is shine the only move that can connect in time after the WD OOS? I noticed that Sheik cant do much after her Short Hop Bair pressure.

 

[Bones0]

Can Sheik's bair pressure be countered with WD OOS>upsmash or is shine the only move that can connect in time after the WD OOS? I noticed that Sheik cant do much after her Short Hop Bair pressure.

If Sheik spaces a late bair on your shield, there's no way you can counterattack without some sort of read on her.

 

[BO/\K]

I'm currently trying to learn SHFFL'd Nair into Shine to counter Shield Grabbing (practicing on 20XX against Marth set to shield grab). Is it guaranteed no matter how close/early I do the Nair? Also, is SHFFL'd Nair into shine the only aerial Fox has that is safe on shield, or can I use Bair too?

So the 20XX CPU will grab asap out of shield stun. This means you can't practice an entire pressure string and instead must split it up. Late nair->shine->ASAP retreating nair will result in the CPU getting smacked because it start a grab the very first frame it isn't frozen in shield. What I practice is late aerial->shine and shine->ASAP aerial (fading ideally). The second hit of both those strings should smack the CPU and that's how you know you didn't **** up. If you do an aerial shine and are getting grabbed, you're either not delaying your aerial enough or you're flubbing the LC. You can use nairs or bairs. One thing I practice is I put my back to their shield and then shine->ASAP retreating bair.

You should also practice shine grabs in 20XX. Your grab should beat theirs. Now that I think about it, wouldn't it be ideal to give yourself port priority disadvantage here to make it as hard as possible so you lose a tie?

Once you're confident you are executing these on-shield actions safely, make the CPU stop shield grabbing and then do entire strings on shield.

 

[Gami]

I'm having trouble with the consistency of my waveshines. My training setup is as follows: Fox vs Captain Falcon on the lowest platform of Pokemon Stadium. I think the problem is when I wavedash I end in my shield for just a split second, and when I try to use the shine I end up doing a side step dodge. Could this be the result of playing on an HD TV? Another problem I have encountered is my wavedashes don't go far enough or Falcon is just out of my reach even at lower percents. He slides a good distance away from the first shine.

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

The HDTV would only be affecting you if you were used to playing on a CRT, which I suggest you get used to since it is what's at tournaments. If you're shielding that means you are still holding L or R after your wavedash, so remember to realase it. If you arent getting enough distance on your waveshine then you need to do a better wavedash. Point the stick closer to the left and right notches than to the bottom notch to get more distance4.

 

[Gami]

The HDTV would only be affecting you if you were used to playing on a CRT, which I suggest you get used to since it is what's at tournaments. If you're shielding that means you are still holding L or R after your wavedash, so remember to realase it. If you arent getting enough distance on your waveshine then you need to do a better wavedash. Point the stick closer to the left and right notches than to the bottom notch to get more distance4.

Thanks for the help I'm used to playing on an HDTV because that's all I have. When I go back to school I'll see if I can find a CRT. When I aim for the bottom notch I find myself doing a triangle jump into a wavedash. I'll practice aiming for the left and right notches. As for being stuck in my shield how long should I be holding L and R? Also should I use a light press or a full press of the button?

 

[Clebus]

You gotta full press for the airdodge to happen. You can hit L or R for just 1 frame and it'll register, but you've got a lot of lag on landing so you have plenty of time to let off.

 

[supreme jd]

- Should Fox ever down throw or just up throw 99% of the time?
- Is shield dropping worth learning for Fox in PM? How do I do it in PM exactly? (i know this is a melee forum but hopefully someone knows the answer here)

 

[Gami]

How fast do I have to press my jump button of choice to jump cancel a shine? My problem now is I'm stuck in my shine for way too long. I try and hit Y immediately after the shine comes out which ends in me doing a full hop rather than keeping me close enough to the ground to wavedash.

 

[Red Rice]

Fox should down throw when uthrow - uair/bair/aerial doesn't work.

 

[Druggedfox]

Upthrow is still generally better than dthrow in situations where you can't directly combo imo. You get a huge positional advantage, and if played well you can usually uptilt/bair/upair them as they try to get to the ground or land on a platform even if its not a combo. At worst, you can often wait until they land on the ground and grab them again.

Even then, sometimes fthrow or backthrow are better because you'll get good stage positioning, a tech chase, or throw them off stage.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yo, some of you might still remember Amsah, one of the best players in Europe, and I got the privilege of playing a set vs him in tournament, and I'd love to get some critique on the sets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyoKi5890HA&index=8&list=PLRD-jdBmqD3KyVxMZQRes6IeKDvv2YCN7

I'm GOKU
Any help is appreciated (except about the SDs, I noticed that LOL)

 

[Sinji]

Whats the best way to approach Ice Climbers on FD? the blizzard set up always gets me into a wooble. Any advice?

 

[Super]

Whats the best button combinations for chasing the DI to upthrow upair? I can get the true combo upthrow uair on no DI puff, but I'm too slow to chase when DI'd well. After the initial run to chase what are some good ways to up throw uair ASAP?

 

[Bones0]

Whats the best button combinations for chasing the DI to upthrow upair? I can get the true combo upthrow uair on no DI puff, but I'm too slow to chase when DI'd well. After the initial run to chase what are some good ways to up throw uair ASAP?

Dash with control stick.
Y to jump (SH or FH based on character, %, and DI)
Control stick (tap jump) to DJ.
A/Z to uair.

Also, keep in mind you might not be able to combo a full DI at the same percents as no DI. If you're unsure if it will combo, start at higher percents and gradually decrease it until you can't get it to combo. If your technique is on point, you should be able to determine when combos start/stop within a few percents of the true value.

 

[Wilson Jr.]

When should I use back-air over up-air? Wouldn't up-air be better most of the time, if not all the time?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Usually after U-throw, after having it done many, many, many times, you can read when it will be easy for them to smash-DI out. Then you would want Back-air.

You also want U-throw back-air on Falco when he's like 90-100% since U-air wont kill or combo and bair will put him in an edgeguard.

 

[SpiderMad]

Battlefield: The top platform being sooooo high is pretty obnoxious for falco,

How so?

 

[Pengie]

Fox on the top platform is a pretty annoying spot for Falco to deal with because it's so easy to put yourself in positions where you can avoid Falco's approaches. The height of the platform means that he takes forever to get to you with a FJ so you have time to either FJ while on the top platform over his FJ approach and beat it out, or you could get off platform if you don't really want to deal with him and then once you've gotten off the platform you can kinda let things reset to neutral. Alternatively, Falco is slow, so if he tries to threaten you on the top platform by jumping on a side platform, he isn't really fast enough to threaten you getting off of the platform so you can get off of it pretty safely and reposition until you feel comfortable with the situation. All in all, top platforms benefit Fox greatly against Falco because you can use them as a reset button when you feel like you've lost your control on the situation because they're a pretty safe spot to go to unless Falco can directly intercept your jump arc to the platform with his own jump. In that case, you run the risk of getting air-to-air shined and eating ****, but that's a hard read on the Falco's part and if he fails to intercept you correctly you can pressure him with up airs and stuff from being below him. BF's in particular is very nice because of how high up it is making it all the more annoying for Falco to hit you once you're up there.

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

What's the best answer to edge cancelled eggs?

If you try to get out of their range you'll lose all stage control (sometimes the only safe place is the opposite ledge) and if you try to get near the ledge to gimp him you can often take massive damage from just a few and depending on how good the yoshi is you might not even be able to hit them. Camping in shine is also not optimal because it lets yoshi off the ledge for free.

Any ideas on how to stop the egg pressure? Usually I try to clip them with a dsmash, ariel or maybe dash attack but I believe they can react to getting hit with dash attack and air dodge back on.

 

[tauKhan]

My training partner usually stays close to the ledge and sh bairs the eggs. This way he can punish yoshi attempting to get back on the stage because his dj is so slow. This strategy of course runs the risk of being hit by an egg or even getting comboed by eggs, but I don't think it's that hard to execute. You shouldn't be missing it a lot more than yoshi misses his eggs, which often leads to his death, so the risk/reward should be okay I think.

 

[mac771]

What should I be doing as fox when my opponent is at 0 percent?