Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Zylo]

Is there a technical reason why most foxes favor shine turnaround firefox to grab the ledge from the stage as opposed to a turnaround waveshine?

 

[Red Rice]

Is there a technical reason why most foxes favor shine turnaround firefox to grab the ledge from the stage as opposed to a turnaround waveshine?

I like to do turnaround waveshine because it feels smoother (and a little more flashy imo). But shine turnaround firefox is easier to execute. I prefer not to firefox because there are rare occasions when I miss the firefox sweetspot.

 

[Zylo]

I like to do turnaround waveshine because it feels smoother (and a little more flashy imo). But shine turnaround firefox is easier to execute. I prefer not to firefox because there are rare occasions when I miss the firefox sweetspot.

So is the only reason the ease of execution?

 

[Red Rice]

So is the only reason the ease of execution?

Off the top of my head, yes. I'm pretty sure that I watched a video about the different ways that foxes can get to the ledge and I think that shine turnaround is faster than shine turnaround firefox too.

 

[Zylo]

Great, thanks!

 

[Xilo Pryce]

Also, fellow with similar name, I'm a fan of laser turn around ledge grab.

 

[dkuo]

pick the easiest to execute option that lets you edgehog in time. if you have enough time, rolling towards the ledge and doing a vertical shorthop is probably the easiest and most consistent option, but also takes really long

i usually pick between that and turnaround waveshine since im horrible at shine turnaround firefox

 

[Smasher89]

How much shieldstun(shielddamage) does fox laser have, and i assume theres no stun at all during a regular hit?

 

[Bones0]

How much shieldstun(shielddamage) does fox laser have, and i assume theres no stun at all during a regular hit?

http://smashboards.com/threads/frame-advantage-on-block.309694/
^Bookmark or just remember to google "KirbyKaze shield stun"

I don't remember how much stun it has on hit, but I am pretty sure it's within 1 frame of the shield stun value. I think CCing reduces stun by 1 frame.

-Oh whoops, thought I was answering your other post in the Falco forums. lol Yeah, Fox laser doesn't have stun.

 

[Smasher89]

But it does, i can desynch from getting lasered on shield and im just looking for how big the window is , essentially how much stun it has shows the window of oppoturnity for that.

 

[Bones0]

But it does, i can desynch from getting lasered on shield and im just looking for how big the window is , essentially how much stun it has shows the window of oppoturnity for that.

It still has shield stun, but no hit stun. The shield stun is dependent on the damage, hence the link.

 

[tauKhan]

@ S Smasher89
3 frames of shield hitlag and 2 frames of shieldstun

I don't remember how much stun falco's laser has on hit, but I am pretty sure it's within 1 frame of the shield stun value. I think CCing reduces stun by 1 frame.

This is far from correct. Total stun on hit is much larger, except when the laser is crouched.

 

[Bones0]

@ S Smasher89
3 frames of shield hitlag and 2 frames of shieldstun



This is far from correct. Total stun on hit is much larger, except when the laser is crouched.

Oh, really? Do you know what the values are?

 

[BTmoney]

anyone have any good tech chasing (say off of shine) strats in the ditto/vs falco?

I feel like I call more things than I react to so I'm wondering if there is any methodology to this

 

[Red Rice]

anyone have any good tech chasing (say off of shine) strats in the ditto/vs falco?

I feel like I call more things than I react to so I'm wondering if there is any methodology to this

Thunder's is amazing. Jab resets in general are amazing. But specifically, off shine - I go for a thunder's 9/10 times

Edit: I should note, not the tradition Thunder's (jab reset > uair) because I feel it's easy to miss the follow up after the uair. I generally opt for a grab or upsmash after the reset

 

[L__]

tbaggin the opposing space animal's body is a good place to start (or crouching after a wait so you don't give away what you're trying to go for). let's you crouch cancel the get up attack for a considerable % and your response to the get up attack should net you a huge combo if you know the basics of comboing fast fallers lol. you can typically react to the side rolls for falco and fox (at least in my experience).

jab resets are c00l until you face people who learn how to smash di (well) then things get tricky.

p.s. **** falco

 

[mac771]

Hey smashers. I am a fox main and am pretty new to competitive smash. I have been playing for years but I am trying to take it to the next level. I have a quick question. What is the best thing to do as Fox when your opponent is at 0 percent?

 

[mac771]

Hey smashers. I am a fox main and am pretty new to competitive smash. I have been playing for years but I am trying to take it to the next level. I have a quick question. What is the best thing to do as Fox when your opponent is at 0 percent?

 

[Zylo]

Hey smashers. I am a fox main and am pretty new to competitive smash. I have been playing for years but I am trying to take it to the next level. I have a quick question. What is the best thing to do as Fox when your opponent is at 0 percent?

Try to bait them so that you can grab, or (depending on the enemy), try to do a drill-shine/nair-shine into grab. Against characters that are knocked down by shine (which is weight dependent), you can sometimes get a drill into grab without going for a shine, but this isn't a true combo. Also, up-tilts are good, especially if they crouch cancel. Then you can keep hitting them with up-tilts.

 

[mac771]

Try to bait them so that you can grab, or (depending on the enemy), try to do a drill-shine/nair-shine into grab. Against characters that are knocked down by shine (which is weight dependent), you can sometimes get a drill into grab without going for a shine, but this isn't a true combo. Also, up-tilts are good, especially if they crouch cancel. Then you can keep hitting them with up-tilts.

when you say nair-shine, do you mean a short hop nair and then l-cancel and then do a shine immediately when I land?

 

[Zylo]

It doesn't need to be a short hop, but yeah. Connect a l-cancelled neutral air into a waveshine

 

[mac771]

got it. thanks man

 

[BTmoney]

yeah thunders is cool but it's a waste of a knockdown when people just DI out of it so I'm actually trying to find a better option

 

[Druggedfox]

Just tech chase them. At worst you can get a 50/50 with predicting getup attack, vs reacting to all the roll options. Just do waveshine-->dash to their landing spot.

 

[mac771]

what should I do when a play against Link and combat all of his projectiles

 

[mac771]

Also, should I always wavedash into throws? When I try to dash it seems like I outrun them sometimes or fall short

 

[Red Rice]

Also, should I always wavedash into throws? When I try to dash it seems like I outrun them sometimes or fall short

You should be JC grabbing 99% of the time. JC (jump canceling) is literally jumping out of your dash and canceling the jump with a grab. This cuts the momentum of your dash but the grab range stays the same (almost positive - but for peach, JC shortens her grab range). It also reduces the lag and once you see the difference, it's very noticeable. It's basically a dash and then a standing grab

You can JC grab by dashing and pressing Y/X + Z. Or you can dash and then quarter circle up and hit Z before you jump

 

[mac771]

You should be JC grabbing 99% of the time. JC (jump canceling) is literally jumping out of your dash and canceling the jump with a grab. This cuts the momentum of your dash but the grab range stays the same (almost positive - but for peach, JC shortens her grab range). It also reduces the lag and once you see the difference, it's very noticeable. It's basically a dash and then a standing grab

You can JC grab by dashing and pressing Y/X + Z. Or you can dash and then quarter circle up and hit Z before you jump

so is it Y/X and Z at the same time or Y/X and then immediately Z?

 

[Zylo]

so is it Y/X and Z at the same time or Y/X and then immediately Z?

It is "Z" immediately after. Although the website appears to be down right now, the pro smasher Pewpewu recently created Smashlounge.com, which is a compendium of information on all sorts of advanced techniques. I highly recommend checking it out!

 

[Bones0]

You should be JC grabbing 99% of the time. JC (jump canceling) is literally jumping out of your dash and canceling the jump with a grab. This cuts the momentum of your dash but the grab range stays the same (almost positive - but for peach, JC shortens her grab range). It also reduces the lag and once you see the difference, it's very noticeable. It's basically a dash and then a standing grab

You can JC grab by dashing and pressing Y/X + Z. Or you can dash and then quarter circle up and hit Z before you jump

To clarify, a character's grab range never changes (except by using dash grabs instead of standing/JC grabs). The reason it can seem like your grab range is longer is because your character maintains dash/run momentum during jumpsquat and the beginning of your grab animation. The reason it seems like Peach's grab range is shorter is because she has extremely high traction and doesn't get that extra bit of sliding before the grab comes out. The actual grab hitboxes are the same.

 

[mac771]

It is "Z" immediately after. Although the website appears to be down right now, the pro smasher Pewpewu recently created Smashlounge.com, which is a compendium of information on all sorts of advanced techniques. I highly recommend checking it out!

Thanks. Also, when I throw someone with Fox, should I slide into the throw or start the throw when I am pretty much touching them?

 

[Red Rice]

The more you play, the more familiar you will get with Fox's grab range - so the distance/how you grab them is different based on the situation

 

[fennel69]

Hey, any advice ? Thanks ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPMkcnZUdZc&feature=youtu.be

 

[Super]

How do you DI ICs dair regrab chainthrow?

 

[Bones0]

How do you DI ICs dair regrab chainthrow?

My goto move is to SDI the dair away then buffer a roll. Sometimes you might want to jump instead of roll depending on how they react to whiffing the grab.

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

I need help withe the Doctor Mario match up. Got beat by a pretty good Doc recently and I feel like it was because he punished me a LOT harder than I punished him. He got a lot of damage off every grab but I had no clue how to combo him at all. I eventually settled for drillshine fthrow as my most damaging combo.. I was also too scared of CC dsmash to follow up with anthing other than shine after ariels. What are some optimal ways to combo doctor mario?

 

[Clebus]

Drillshine upthrow upair? idk if it works on doc lol, but if it does itll be like 25% maybe
also what are the frames on drill -> grab? how many frames does your opponent have to act?

 

[Bones0]

Drillshine upthrow upair? idk if it works on doc lol, but if it does itll be like 25% maybe
also what are the frames on drill -> grab? how many frames does your opponent have to act?

You can drillshine him into w/e pretty easily, but uthrow uair isn't a true combo on the Mario Bros. That being said, waveshining into grab can still be effectively overall as long as you uair/bair intelligently. The frames on drill -> grab will vary, but they have enough time to spotdodge, roll, or do really quick moves (shines, Samus up-B, etc).

 

[Clebus]

Thanks.
sss

 

[unknown522]

Try to bait them so that you can grab, or (depending on the enemy), try to do a drill-shine/nair-shine into grab. Against characters that are knocked down by shine (which is weight dependent), you can sometimes get a drill into grab without going for a shine, but this isn't a true combo. Also, up-tilts are good, especially if they crouch cancel. Then you can keep hitting them with up-tilts.

it's a true combo. If it didn't combo it's because you grabbed too slow or something