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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

FluxWolf

FluxWolf

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
1,330
Location
Minneapolis
Penguin_ftw said:
Any words of wisdom for Blue Fox?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ2gv1xEvZA
Click to expand...
Do nair -> shine grab or nair shine -> fade away something or go behind their sheild when pressuring. I see you spamming nair shine on sheilds and thats very punishable and doesn't get much done unless they mess up and get hit by it.

Also I noticed you could be using your shield much more, try adding in these few things and you might see some good changes to your play...

1: bait ppl with run in and shield works wonders, you can get grabs, shine oos, up smash oos, tons of good plays off baiting someone into attacking your shield. they key is to make them think you're being aggressive, but have the plan of being defensive. thats what baiting is.
2: add in running waveshine as an approach to mix it up
3: crouch cancel punish at low % more (huge) makes having a lead really useful because it unlocks things. think of each percent as a new battle, like at 0% you can do this and this, and 10% this unlocks, and etc.
ex: fox vs sheik: sheik can do nothing but grab fox until about 50% because he can CC punish a lot of her moves at low %
4: maybe laser a little bit? not necessary but i like to always be doing something and lasers are good for that when nothing is happening, just make sure you don't sacrifice your positioning to laser as it allows the opponent time to reposition and not you.

also with the d smashing on the ledge, though its a simple and effective option think about this:
- its easily techable by someone who is real good at techning the ledge consistently
- if they do tech and side b, you could die because you will be in lag most likely or if not still in a bad spot
- this is where grabbing the ledge and shine/bair, or if you cant get there in time and need to be on the stage even a downward angled F tilt would be better than d smash, then grab the ledge and kick him off again or w.e.. idk just some more options to think about always want to choose the best one ya know?

Oh and in Fox vs Fox/Falco, Fox can CC shine their Up B's until about 50%, so if theyre not sweet spotting, just crouch near the ledge, take the hit crouch it and mash down b xD... orr you could shield it and shine them oos but thats a little more difficult/situational

ill try and think of more stuff to add in that was all based off watching the first game. keep it up though looking like you're learning Fox the right way.
 
Penguin_ftw

Penguin_ftw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
196
Location
Plano, TX
That's a lot of feedback, thanks

Just to clarify I'm green fox, but I figured any kind of analysis would be better suited for Fish who actually mains fox
 
Chroma

Chroma

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 16, 2011
Messages
161
Location
Philadelphia
Thanks for the advice, Metal Reeper and Bones! We've started playing a lot on Penn's campus - we should play sometime.
 
S

Special K!

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
6
Hi Fox forums,

Could anyone give me some advice on my fox:

http://www.twitch.tv/progducto/b/378535172

The beginning of the video I play a set against Ryan K and at around 18:40 I play sets against Cactuar. Basically anytime you see a fox in this clip its me.

I know I get bodied pretty hard but any advice is appreciated.
 
omgwtfToph

omgwtfToph

Smash Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
4,486
Location
San Jose
Metal Reeper said:
I would never miss the tech vs Sheik. She can still Usmash you. That's what I do to miss techs and Sheik can gain alot from any of those at any %.
Click to expand...
I would never tech to the right vs Sheik. She can still run to the right, and grab your tech.

...LOL no **** Sheik can cover missed tech. She can also cover techs in place or to each side. I don't know why mixups/option coverage are still a foreign concept to some people.

**** the fox thread lol, I'll be back when raynex/unknown/lovage/sw start posting again
 
Metal Reeper

Metal Reeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
2,285
Location
Abington PA
Special K! said:
Hi Fox forums,

Could anyone give me some advice on my fox:

http://www.twitch.tv/progducto/b/378535172

The beginning of the video I play a set against Ryan K and at around 18:40 I play sets against Cactuar. Basically anytime you see a fox in this clip its me.

I know I get bodied pretty hard but any advice is appreciated.
Click to expand...
At the very beginning you bair falco. Right after you should of grabbed the ledge. You had tons of time to.
For your 2nd stock he fthrows you off and you double jump into his dair. You could of shine stalled. And waited for him to do something, then reacted. Don't get mentally pressured in situations like these. Shine stall is good.
For your 3rd stock. same thing. Double jumped as soon as you got out of hitstun.
You were doing really good that last stock. Nice shine nairs. You got him off stage at one point. Again you should of just grabbed the ledge and guranteed the stock.
---------2nd game------
If this was tourney you should of probably banned FD.
Nice spotdodge>shine at the begining. Landing these are very good on Marth but don't let this become a habit.
Vs Marth you really want to land those grabs and punish him hard. Run in >shine is really good. You really want to let Marth set the pace for the match don't be afraid to laser. For the most part they are free. Run in and shielding is also pretty good against Marth's that don't grab alot. You just want to DD Marth. Wait until he messes up or get impatient and mess him up. Landing big combos and edgeguarding him with shine/bair is essential.
------3rd game------
Cactuar is scary. You were doing good with your full hops. Be wary when doing this though because Falcos can just DD, wait until you land and punish. When playing Falcon on FD you should be going for chaingrabs. It's pretty gay lol. But that's the MU on that stage. Go for those Uthrow>Usmashes at low %.
----4th game---
IDK man Cactuar is just really good lol.
I hope I was of some help.
 
Silent Wolf

Silent Wolf

...
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
10,463
Location
the west
You know what's pretty good at catching people out of their shield when they're not facing u? Motha ****in dair dair. That's my ****.


And people need to stop drill shining chars that fall from shine and start drill grabbing.
 
FluxWolf

FluxWolf

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
1,330
Location
Minneapolis
kick him off, and keep him off. Just remember to not get caught up/get too hyphy vs a good luigil...
and remember that 1 shine on the stage = a kill almost... as it sends him sooooo far away and off the stage... just remember that ur fox and can do WAY more than he can

also shine sh illusion is a legit combo that u can usually follow up after too... cheese as **** tho xD

and don't try to sheild grab/force too much imo or u can get punished hard... i kind of think of it like fighting vs a ganon but easier. prolly makes no sense but try and think of it like that it might help if ur having trouble l0l
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
You know how long his wavedash is? Either stay outside that range or stay close enough inside it that you can punish him for doing it (but obviously, outside the range where he can just stand and hit you).

Shine isn't that useful against him, but I use it a lot out of habit. You can't really combo him with it, but if you're quick you can do some mixups and it also leads to him being off the stage fairly early.

You can't exactly combo him cause of his weight, instead you just kinda exploit his aerial range. Try to hit with the edges of your moves (the disjointed parts).

For stages... Im not really sure. I'd probably pick Yoshis or Stadium, but thats practically every match-up. Probably best to avoid FD and/or Dreamland. Battlefield is okay against him too since the lack of walls hurts his recovery a bit.
 
Kason Birdman

Kason Birdman

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
2,240
Location
519, Ontario
awesome thanks a lot. Jumping and trying to beat him with an uair or bair never seems to be a good idea and I always get beat out by his nair or bair. am I just not spacing well enough?

and how about utilt? should two utilts combo? or after I land an up tilt do i wanna bair or perhaps just get out of there as quick as possible?
 
W

WaterlessFishie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
431
Location
Plano, TX DFW
Kason Birdman said:
thanks what about stages?
aside from poke
Click to expand...
Battlefield man. luigis hate that **** cause it doesn't have those walls for them to hit, they just go right under the stage when they side b and then die. and yeah, shine that slippery ****** all day lol. when you're edgeguarding i like to sit on the ledge and wait for him to either misfire or be below me. if he misfires onto the stage, usually you can punish it but not always cause they can get lucky and platform cancel it usually you can get some kind of punish (up smash/bair/uair). if he doesn't misfire then he'll be below you at which point you just stall on the ledge to renew your invincibility and then drop and shine him and there's really nothing he can do about it i think. i'm no expert on these matters though and the luigi i play against isn't very good at the down b aspect of luigi's recovery but i don't see that making too much of a difference if you're invincible. hope that helped.

oh and comboing luigi doesn't really happen. you just kinda have to hit him in several isolated incidents i think. but shine is the bomb man it ***** so hard in the MU
 
D

Dayman562

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
4
Location
NORWALK!
So i need help against marth. I play against A Rookie alot ( who doesnt use marth >.>) and he 4 stocks me every damn time....... anyways he told me to shine jc grab and i can't seem to do it. Any tips?
 
Kason Birdman

Kason Birdman

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Messages
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camp. if he nairs, you should be able to get a grab. into an uair and a bigillion percent.
if he dash attacks you should be able to get a shield up in time and usmash OoS or shield grab.
you cant do much about retreating double nairs or that ****, just keep camping.
shinegrab is nice for if you get a drill on his shield
you shouldnt be approaching him. caaaaamp
 
D

Dayman562

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
4
Location
NORWALK!
Kason Birdman said:
camp. if he nairs, you should be able to get a grab. into an uair and a bigillion percent.
if he dash attacks you should be able to get a shield up in time and usmash OoS or shield grab.
you cant do much about retreating double nairs or that ****, just keep camping.
shinegrab is nice for if you get a drill on his shield
you shouldnt be approaching him. caaaaamp
Click to expand...
Ohh ok yeah I have been trying to approach him but then i just get destroyed thanks for the advice I'm gonna try against his marth tomorrow see if it helps.
 
chillindude829

chillindude829

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Messages
4,804
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Northern Virginia
anyone know the frame data for sheik uptilt on shield?

edit: this is what im watching btw grand finals from xanadu this past weekend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q2tMXl3h9w

glad to hear any advice, particularly vs sheik, aside from technical errors and stuff like that. ive been getting closer and closer to m2k everytime we play (weve played a lot of local tourney finals lately)
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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What do you want to know chillin? From what I remember off the top of my head, it is safe at the end but vulnerable between the 2 hits.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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8 frames out of shield stun after the first hit
1 frame out of shield stun after the 2nd hit, before sheik can act again
 
chillindude829

chillindude829

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Messages
4,804
Location
Northern Virginia
Hmm so u could shine between hits but not much else, and I guess roll or shine is the best option if u don't punish between hits

**** that move lol

Thx for the info sveet
 
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