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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

Silent Wolf

Silent Wolf

...
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Kyle fluxwolf: I didn't read much but I'm pretty sure when they're talking about how to dash dance they mean when and not so much how. Although the how is def still a factor cuz there's different things you can use witit
 
FluxWolf

FluxWolf

Smash Lord
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oTTO silentwolf: I hear ya... maybe try to actively think what you're trying to bait your opponent into when dash dancing so you're not just randomly dashing around like a downy. And yeah what I said before kinda sounded arrogant but I still hope it encourages some people haha, a lot of times people just aren't doing as much as they can.

I think one good thing to show in a vid or guide would be like dash dancing into a pivot grab/nairs or w.e that ****srape

edit: DUDE first time smashboards has worked in 2 days for me l0l....
 
Pengie

Pengie

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Tachi said:
There's a good chance they'll just shield it or you'll just get hit by a second/third jab. If they use all their jabs then sure why not.
I think nair OoS or any aerial OoS is better and leads to either getting a hit or sticking them in shield
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Just for reference Up-Smash OoS is only like 1 frame slower than a perfect nair OoS. Also Up-Smash OoS is a more solid hit that leads to more reliable followups than any aerial other than maybe dair (and dair OoS isn't really a good punish for fast options imo). Also, unless they were already doing the second jab they won't really be able to react to the Up-smash and do another jab to interrupt and I'm pretty sure that jabs are very punishable on block so them shielding is only an issue if you're slow on donig the Up-Smash.

In general, I think Up-Smash OoS is one of Fox's best tools because it has pretty amazing range and blows up bad pressure and it can lead into great punishes on most characters.
 
Pengie

Pengie

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PGH Carroll said:
Is upthrow (no DI) double shine (grounded) bair possible on spacies? (low percents)
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I mean, they'd have to like, purposely smash DI/asdi the shines up and in but yeah it probably does work >.>

FluxWolf said:
shine oos is really fking good too :O
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Shine OoS is amazing but imo sometimes the lack of range sucks so it's not as amazing as some people make it out to be.
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

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yeah it's pretty terrible that his frame 1 move doesn't have a bunch of range
 
omgwtfToph

omgwtfToph

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^ LMAO. yeah shine oos is fine stop whining

edit: and by that I mean that yes, it is as amazing as everyone makes it out to be. if you're a fox player and you don't think shine oos is gamebreaking then you aren't good at shining oos.
 
omgwtfToph

omgwtfToph

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Silent Wolf said:
Kyle fluxwolf: I didn't read much but I'm pretty sure when they're talking about how to dash dance they mean when and not so much how. Although the how is def still a factor cuz there's different things you can use witit
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Idk, I think "how" is pretty damn important. There's this spectrum in dashdancing with playing 100% reactively on one side (i.e. you are not watching for anything in particular and you are aiming to see what your opponent does), and playing 100% predictively (i.e. you've already decided what you are going to do, either because you are guessing your opponent's action or because you've committed to an approach) on the other, and knowing the right place on the spectrum you want to be at a given time is huge imo. Like when I was asking you for advice on DDing Peach's dash attack; you were basically telling me that you want to specifically be looking out for that thing because of its startup and range. That's a subtlety that I specifically needed help with lol.
 
FluxWolf

FluxWolf

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omgwtfToph said:
Idk, I think "how" is pretty damn important. There's this spectrum in dashdancing with playing 100% reactively on one side (i.e. you are not watching for anything in particular and you are aiming to see what your opponent does), and playing 100% predictively (i.e. you've already decided what you are going to do, either because you are guessing your opponent's action or because you've committed to an approach) on the other, and knowing the right place on the spectrum you want to be at a given time is huge imo. Like when I was asking you for advice on DDing Peach's dash attack; you were basically telling me that you want to specifically be looking out for that thing because of its startup and range. That's a subtlety that I specifically needed help with lol.
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PC Chris wuld have so much to say about this... maybe lol. He's just so good at getting in your face BUT IN A DEFENSIVE WAY its cray lol U think he's being aggro but really he's tricking you haha... idk I'm def gonna start focusing more on this idea. And always remember "don't get hit!"\

WTF I can't change this font size back idk how it got this way :(
edit: i just thought more about this. like in games the best way to win is to apply pressure to your opponent(s) this doesnt mean like just going in on a ****ty its like what PC does, him being in their face FORCES them to do something different, like roll or jump or anything! Pushing people out of their comfort zones works wonders

@Solace I'd be down to watch them live with you on skype or vent it'd be way easier rather than timestamping 20 mins of stuff and don't know which player is which :p

add me on skype if u want my name on there is "fulxwofl" cuz fluxwolf was taken somehow??

@strongbad: that was actually pretty funny/trill dude LOL
 
omgwtfToph

omgwtfToph

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FluxWolf said:
PC Chris wuld have so much to say about this... maybe lol. He's just so good at getting in your face BUT IN A DEFENSIVE WAY its cray lol U think he's being aggro but really he's tricking you haha...
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yeah this is big. really really big lol. me and otto were talking about this the other day too lol
 
Machiavelli

Machiavelli

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Oct 13, 2012
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Does anyone have any advice for illusion canceling off platforms (mostly for recovering), maybe a way to visualize it that has worked for you?
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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Nov 18, 2007
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Solace1, don't get me wrong - you're bad. But you have the right idea a lot of the time. Using bairs to bulldoze when the opposing Fox is in a limited movement position or simply trying to force their way back in, dash dancing around approaches, etc. It's the right idea. You just make a bazillion little errors and don't really seem to know what your goals are at whatever percent and with your positioning. A good example (forget the time) is when you d-smash him out of an illusion but then he touches the floor before slipping offstage and grabs the edge, ending your direct punish. But if you kept bairing (which would mean immediately jumping again after you pushed him off with the first two bairs) or if you u-tilted instead (if you chose to work from the ground) then you would have gotten a much bigger payoff for both of those.

Beyond that, just kind of consider your options a bit more. You limit yourself to DJ, attacks, your fade, specials, and air-dodge when you jump. Jumping therefore in a lot of respects offers a really low amount of movement adjustment. You SHed at a distance vs Marth and got dash attacked; what could you have really done about it without knowing the dash attack was coming? How you move determines your options and what you're most vulnerable to. Since Fox doesn't want to be grabbed out of his landing lag above all else, it's not a bad idea to focus on how you can avoid that. Most obvious answer is to be grounded. Next most obvious answer is to use jumps that go around grab. And when you realize where SH can be modified to protect your landing, and where it's totally safe to use, you start cooking with some real gas.

Oh, and get better at dash dance into grab.
 
Silent Wolf

Silent Wolf

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omgwtfToph said:
Idk, I think "how" is pretty damn important. There's this spectrum in dashdancing with playing 100% reactively on one side (i.e. you are not watching for anything in particular and you are aiming to see what your opponent does), and playing 100% predictively (i.e. you've already decided what you are going to do, either because you are guessing your opponent's action or because you've committed to an approach) on the other, and knowing the right place on the spectrum you want to be at a given time is huge imo. Like when I was asking you for advice on DDing Peach's dash attack; you were basically telling me that you want to specifically be looking out for that thing because of its startup and range. That's a subtlety that I specifically needed help with lol.
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yea i meant that to be more in my "when" and was responding to his definition of "how." aka he made it sound like people shoudlnt have a hard time with the technical aspect of pressing left and right. idk tho im too lazy to go back and read.
 
V

Voltz

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kalindih said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3r7cdnJ0w4
Okay im a fox/falco main. I've been practicing for a while but I just start playing competitively August 2012. This is my set vs m2k, any advice on how to improve??
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Wow, you are pretty good, especially considering it has only been a few months of competition. But, when you are getting gimped, shine in hope that it lands and spikes. I mean, you are done with the stock anyway.
 
unknown522

unknown522

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Aug 17, 2005
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vs Juggleguy: Looks like you were trying to camp it up at first from like mid-range with lasers (which is bad vs falcon). Then when you stopped, you were trying to rush in and contest his moves with your own. He kept waiting for you to approach him, after you would do a short DD. Your main problems are that either you need to space better around his moves, or wait longer. Your move selection was also very questionable; like drill at the wrong times, and short n-airs. It really looks like you didn't know what you were doing in terms of approach, and move selection (like you're blindly throwing out moves). Try mixing in some FHs, shield, and b-air in there to start. There was a combo early that I remember that you could've extended longer, especially because he picked all the wrong DIs. Usually, if you can combo a move into grab, you probably should (unless they have lost their jump), or u-tilt. The reverse b-air made you lose the combo, since he was almost center stage and definitely wasn't going to go off from it.

vs peach guy: Not trying to be offensive, but I couldn't watch after the first 2 stocks. I think I'm just too tired right now. Also currently housing Diakonos for a week, and various other planning stuff. But yeah, you did not put any pressure on the guy when you had him offstage. I remember that you were shooting lasers at close range as he was floating towards you, instead of making any kind of aggressive play (or even attempt to wall him with like b-airs or something). There were a few times where you did n-air coming down on top of him instead of drill which may have lead to a combo, but also you probably should've gotten CC -> d-smashed for that.
 
BTmoney

BTmoney

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unknown522 said:
Usually, if you can combo a move into grab, you probably should (unless they have lost their jump), or u-tilt. The reverse b-air made you lose the combo, since he was almost center stage and definitely wasn't going to go off from it.

There were a few times where you did n-air coming down on top of him instead of drill which may have lead to a combo, but also you probably should've gotten CC -> d-smashed for that.
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Should that first sentence read
"if you can combo into a grab then you probably should up tilt, unless they lost their jump"?

Also can't peach CC a drill anyway?
 
omgwtfToph

omgwtfToph

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...Knowing that drills aren't CCable should be one of the very, very, very first things you learn about playing Fox.

Also he meant that if you can combo into a grab, you should combo a grab (unless you can also combo into utilt, in which case that's good too)
 
unknown522

unknown522

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you looks alright. mostly a lot of technical flubs.

I'm going to assume that you win the set.

Edit: guess not.

Grab more, instead of random upsmashes. It'll do wonders
 
Chroma

Chroma

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Apr 16, 2011
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161
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Philadelphia
Thanks man. I'll keep practicing the movement and tech stuff, and I'll try not to force the upsmashes.
also, props on your set vs m2k. I played his marth with fox at a philly tournament, and I have no idea how anyone ever hits him.
 
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