Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[omgwtfToph]

I watched WF vs Bam. Great set. My only input is that sometimes you do SH nair in combos on FD when you could just re-grab, and Bam DI'd it pretty well to get out.

 

[unknown522]

thanks for the input

 

[Bones0]

thanks for the input

Pun intended?

 

[unknown522]

Pun definitely intended!

 

[Bing]

Just curious, when is u-throw nair a good option on spacies?

 

[Lovage]

are u trying to do some bull**** rapex2 light reverse nair combo?

--

if the answer to the above question is "no"


then just do a ****ing back air




EDIT: serious answer cuz someone is gonna quote this and get mad at me

it's not too hard to make some cool combos at around 60+ with uthrow -> super late nair into a nair/regrab/dash attack, but it basically functions the same as uthrow -> late bair into the same ****. bair does more damage so makes sense to use that.

maybe if you compare the hitboxes of the moves and found that nair has a slightly higher hitbox above fox, then nair could have some kooky uses, but for all of ur intents and purposes, just bair/uair/utilt.

 

[Bing]

I generally do just bair or uair, just I've seen people nair so Im fishing for a reason as to why they would.

Ah Okay thanks Lovage.

 

[Winston]

Uthrow dash nair is fine if they DI your throw at mid to mid-high percents (and its not FD so chaingrabbing is less appealing).

If they go straight above you (and its too high percent for utilt to be good, but they're not near the edge/not high enough percent to just bair them offstage), it can also be ok if you do a dd nair so you get the running momentum.

 

[Sinji]

Yea what Winston and Lovage said. Also you can chain nairs into an usmash if they DI to the side.

 

[Lovage]

errr, just realized my post was a bit unclear

i meant all of that assuming it was a no-di situation. so from just a normal uthrow combo standpoint where you don't even have to move, bair is your best bet.

but if we were talking about when they DI the throw, nair def one of the best moves to use. the hitbox is where you need it, it's a perfect move to get really extended combos + tech chases. if they DI the nair badly, it will combo into itself or grab/usmash/whatever, if they DI the nair correctly, they will be forced to tech (unless they edge cancel which happens 15% of the time) which should be almost as good as a combo itself!

 

[unknown522]

yeah, n-air sucks on no DI after u-throw.

I do it as a gimmick occasionally, but rarely get a follow for it.

also, best thing do do out of u-throw on no DI is u-tilt.

@ lovage: n-air on DI away may set up an edgeguard as well depending where you're positioned. Since if they DI in or even neutral at some percents, you can combo further, and if they DI away, then they will be sent on a bad angle setting up for easier edgeguards.

 

[Sinji]

Also you can short hop shine after nair for a good edgeguard and finish them with a dsmash. Shine will push them down.

 

[unknown522]

Depends on their DI

Edit: just played with David. Man he is so gay sometimes

 

[Cactuar]

Depends on their DI

Edit: just played with David. Man he is so gay sometimes

Just out of curiousity, when is he not gay?

 

[Bing]

Depends on their DI

Edit: just played with David. Man he is so gay sometimes

I was going to make a comment about this but then....

Just out of curiousity, when is he not gay?

 

[unknown522]

Good question

Edit: fox's drill is really starting to piss me off

****ing SDI

 

[Lovage]

it ain't fox's fault dawg


are u sure u aren't messing up by:

a) doing max-range drills where your tippy toes hit them (really irresponsible to try to do anything after these, man up and just shield or move away lol)
b) messing up aerial control (not holding towards them during the drill, fastfalling in the wrong place)
c) shining compulsively when your aerial missed instead of moving the **** away
d) doing ******** full-hitting ledgehop drill combos where they could sdi with their nuttsack and easily escape.

theres tons of ways for dair to fail, but mastering it means mastering one of the most devastating aerial combo starters in the game, i'm glad it has some depth to it lol.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yo check out Smash O'Clock livestream!
Got Kels, Matt R, ORLY and Al on the stream right now. Trail is beating up on scrubs in the other room.
Crew battle @10pm CDT.
www.twitch.tv/sveetx


edit- current rotation is gonna be Kels, Matt R, Trail, Sveet

 

[KirbyKaze]

Just some random thoughts about comboing with Fox out of throw vs other space animals... some options and how I view them. I like combos.

This is all done assuming there's no platform above you because if there is then you basically have your aerials and waveland stuff.



Against non-DIed up throw (or slight DI)

Up smash - Use around 0-17% or so. Racks damage. Also at like 85% or whatever because then it kills. Sometimes near the edge to put them offstage or trap them in a combo (whichever).

Up throw CG - Use whenever. Force them onto platform and then tech chase waveland grab or up air at low percents, bair at higher percents (or if you just wanna hit something easily and maybe push them off the platform into another bair or shine or whatever jank you come up with).

SH Uair - Use around 17%-40%. I really like this one so I'm probably hopelessly biased towards it. It feels like hitting an up smash but that's easier to follow. It also leads to really basic uair chains a lot, or can be used to set up horizontal combos with nair or whatever.

U-tilt - Use around 25%+. I seriously mean the "+". It works forever. With proper positioning you can use this to link to uairs that KO slightly earlier than up throw > u-smash will. It combos into itself, regrab, uair (at X percent), nair (at X percent), and so forth. It's really good.




Against away DIs (forward and back)

Up throw CG - Use whenever. The chain grab never changes in terms of its functionality and utility in combos.

Nair / Bair - Use at like 30%+ (and I do mean "+"). They're horizontal push moves. They can setup horizontal juggles. Not much else to say. They're good. They should be used to create tech chases, control trajectories, combo into KO moves, or kill when you can't reach with up smash because of percentage.

Dash attack - You can start using it whenever it starts knocking them over. It's kind of a lazy-man's option but its low knockback can be used to continue combos or hit into certain locations when other moves will produce an edgecancel. Dash attack is generally better off saved (if you haven't staled it) as a follow off other moves or to chase knockdowns though (out of throw, with all the other options, it's usually a bit of a waste).

Running SH uair - Use at 40%ish. It's kind of cute. Leads to another aerial, but following further than that can be hard. Can be good when a nair will create an edgecancel or hit them offstage though (dash FJ shine turn around bair can be followed offstage on this). You can 2nd hit only this one pretty easily.

WD up tilt / dash cancel up tilt - Don't remember the percent but it's basically the same function as the regrab only it does like 2% more and hits them up a bit higher (which may be relevant if you're trying SHFFL uair [first hit only] > up tilt type combos).

Dash JC Up smash - Use at like whatever percent. Its main use is as a KO move, but it can be also used to position people near the edge for an easy tech chase, or at the edge to force them to DI offstage into a possible edgeguard or extended combo. Its limited trajectories available to the opponent are what makes up smash usable for this sort of thing.

 

[unknown522]

it ain't fox's fault dawg


are u sure u aren't messing up by:

a) doing max-range drills where your tippy toes hit them (really irresponsible to try to do anything after these, man up and just shield or move away lol)
b) messing up aerial control (not holding towards them during the drill, fastfalling in the wrong place)
c) shining compulsively when your aerial missed instead of moving the **** away
d) doing ******** full-hitting ledgehop drill combos where they could sdi with their nuttsack and easily escape.

theres tons of ways for dair to fail, but mastering it means mastering one of the most devastating aerial combo starters in the game, i'm glad it has some depth to it lol.

oh I know.

It's just that sometimes you get nothing because they held the right direction

 

[ShroudedOne]

If they SDI the dair, can you follow them with the dair on reaction to their SDI? Lovage, you mentioned holding towards them while drilling, but if I were to SDI hard away, you couldn't react to that, could you (or anticipate it, I guess)? Or would that fall under the situation where you'd look to confirm where the dair placed them, see that you can't follow up, and then back off?

Seems like one of those moves where you sometimes just won't get anything because they SDI'd correctly, and so it's better to just back off (or down tilt, maybe?)

 

[unknown522]

I guess lovage has superpowers (not being sarcastic), but you definitely have to guess if they do DI your drill

Edit: @ lovage: I couldn't find a vid of the u-tilt stuff vs falco, but I tested it again with David and he can vouch that it works at 20%.

 

[Lovage]

idk i feel hella outta the loop now, i seriously have never encountered a player that could legitimately SDI my drills and escape from behind like you guys are describing.

i'm pretty used to small SDI adjustments people make during my combos, playing s2j a lot really forces you to combo on your toes cuz he randomly gets out of **** for no reason lol. but even vs. the player that sdi's more than anyone i know, i've never seen him go thru my legs and have the drill still whiff at the end of it. and if that did happen, i'd give that person a ****ing pat on the back lol, that's hella impressive.

 

[unknown522]

Does he ever use floaties?

 

[Divinokage]

Ive always been able to SDI the drill into jab before Fox can do anything after.. though not with 100% accuracy but still, it's viable to do.

 

[Cactuar]

@Lovage: I do that when I play Marth vs Fox. It only requires like 2 SDI's out of the 3-5 hits of drill that get landed on average. This generally happens by anticipating the first drill hit and SDIing it in, and then hitting in again at any point during the remainder of drill.

 

[unknown522]

How about with fox cactus?

 

[omgwtfToph]

Ive always been able to SDI the drill into jab before Fox can do anything after.. though not with 100% accuracy but still, it's viable to do.

Super easy because you're Ganon. Ganon has an incredibly weird hitbox (like Samus) when he gets drilled and sometimes gets out even with no SDI. Try drillshine comboing a CPU Ganon across FD. If you don't land perfectly in the middle of him, shine doesn't combo.

I'd like to formally add first hit uair into utilt to the list of followups KK provided lol. Played with Zhu two days ago and he did a combo that had like 2/3 of those. Well, I guess for all intents and purposes it's pretty much a way to hit utilts when your opponent is going to land on a platform, or (like run cancel/wavedash utilt) a way to hit utilts while the opponent is moving. But still, in addition to the versatility, it looks cool. And it can mess up your opponent's DI.

 

[KirbyKaze]

The SHFFL 1st-hit Uair is strong and works decently after throw at like 70% or so.

 

[Divinokage]

Super easy because you're Ganon. Ganon has an incredibly weird hitbox (like Samus) when he gets drilled and sometimes gets out even with no SDI. Try drillshine comboing a CPU Ganon across FD. If you don't land perfectly in the middle of him, shine doesn't combo.

I cant really do that.. but anyways because im Ganon things like that are absolutely needed for sure. =P I dont think many people think to do that regardless.

 

[Redd]

Lol, level 9 Ganons are so janky.

 

[Bing]

Just some random thoughts about comboing with Fox out of throw vs other space animals... some options and how I view them. I like combos.

This is all done assuming there's no platform above you because if there is then you basically have your aerials and waveland stuff.



Against non-DIed up throw (or slight DI)

Up smash - Use around 0-17% or so. Racks damage. Also at like 85% or whatever because then it kills. Sometimes near the edge to put them offstage or trap them in a combo (whichever).

Up throw CG - Use whenever. Force them onto platform and then tech chase waveland grab or up air at low percents, bair at higher percents (or if you just wanna hit something easily and maybe push them off the platform into another bair or shine or whatever jank you come up with).

SH Uair - Use around 17%-40%. I really like this one so I'm probably hopelessly biased towards it. It feels like hitting an up smash but that's easier to follow. It also leads to really basic uair chains a lot, or can be used to set up horizontal combos with nair or whatever.

U-tilt - Use around 25%+. I seriously mean the "+". It works forever. With proper positioning you can use this to link to uairs that KO slightly earlier than up throw > u-smash will. It combos into itself, regrab, uair (at X percent), nair (at X percent), and so forth. It's really good.




Against away DIs (forward and back)

Up throw CG - Use whenever. The chain grab never changes in terms of its functionality and utility in combos.

Nair / Bair - Use at like 30%+ (and I do mean "+"). They're horizontal push moves. They can setup horizontal juggles. Not much else to say. They're good. They should be used to create tech chases, control trajectories, combo into KO moves, or kill when you can't reach with up smash because of percentage.

Dash attack - You can start using it whenever it starts knocking them over. It's kind of a lazy-man's option but its low knockback can be used to continue combos or hit into certain locations when other moves will produce an edgecancel. Dash attack is generally better off saved (if you haven't staled it) as a follow off other moves or to chase knockdowns though (out of throw, with all the other options, it's usually a bit of a waste).

Running SH uair - Use at 40%ish. It's kind of cute. Leads to another aerial, but following further than that can be hard. Can be good when a nair will create an edgecancel or hit them offstage though (dash FJ shine turn around bair can be followed offstage on this). You can 2nd hit only this one pretty easily.

WD up tilt / dash cancel up tilt - Don't remember the percent but it's basically the same function as the regrab only it does like 2% more and hits them up a bit higher (which may be relevant if you're trying SHFFL uair [first hit only] > up tilt type combos).

Dash JC Up smash - Use at like whatever percent. Its main use is as a KO move, but it can be also used to position people near the edge for an easy tech chase, or at the edge to force them to DI offstage into a possible edgeguard or extended combo. Its limited trajectories available to the opponent are what makes up smash usable for this sort of thing.

Thank you so much for this :D

Lol, level 9 Ganons are so janky.

LOLOL This is so true. Its so irritating and amusing at the same time to play Ganon lmao

 

[unknown522]

Toph is right about Ganon and samus. The awkward body contortions make it so that you don't even need to SDI with them sometimes


Edit: @ toph: zhu be stealing my ****.

But apparently he saw Raynex do it so he stole it from him

 

[Bones0]

I want to find that vid of two guys hyping up the commentary for a random guy vs. a level 9 Ganon. lol

 

[Bing]

Find it, post it, I want to watch this lmfao.

 

[King Funk]

http://www.twitch.tv/kingfunk#

Bones explaining why fox is #7

 

[_eternal]

I want to find that vid of two guys hyping up the commentary for a random guy vs. a level 9 Ganon. lol

Is it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLT3DeSy3MI ?

 

[ViperGold42]

Is it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLT3DeSy3MI ?

my god, I am in stiches.

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, that was it. lol

 

[omgwtfToph]

I cant really do that.. but anyways because im Ganon things like that are absolutely needed for sure. =P I dont think many people think to do that regardless.

I'm just saying that drill to shine often doesn't combo on Ganon even when it looks like it would, WITHOUT the Ganon really doing anything. Same w/ Samus. You have to really land right in the middle of him; drilling Ganon puts him in a flinch animation which makes his hitbox really conducive to escaping from the shine.

Oh yeah and Unknown I started doing first hit uair -> utilt in Japan after seeing Thunders do it and he came up with it on his own :P