omgwtfToph
Smash Master
^ LMAO sick kage post
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
unknown522
Some guy
See! Isn't that so epic?!?!
Bing
Smash Master
....
LMFAO KAGE
Okay serious question.
Which comes out faster, Up-tilt or Pivot Jab? Im asking because I've been working on this combo that has a uair whole moving across the stage, now I keep messing up and only getting the first hit so I want to be prepared(I guess) for this and Im not sure which would be better. Jab or Up-tilt. I suppose I could like shine-grab or whatever but I dunno.
LMFAO KAGE
Okay serious question.
Which comes out faster, Up-tilt or Pivot Jab? Im asking because I've been working on this combo that has a uair whole moving across the stage, now I keep messing up and only getting the first hit so I want to be prepared(I guess) for this and Im not sure which would be better. Jab or Up-tilt. I suppose I could like shine-grab or whatever but I dunno.
I.B
Smash Lord
Unknown522 posting:
why would you jab?
anyways, u-tilt is faster than pivoting (unless you mean turnaround jab)
why would you jab?
anyways, u-tilt is faster than pivoting (unless you mean turnaround jab)
Silent Wolf
...
dam unknown be posting from all over the place.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
First he invaded my account, now he's invaded IB's.
Silent Wolf
...
and weon x's.
yo is that thing in weon x's avatar a weon? with the background from megaman x? is that the joke??
yo is that thing in weon x's avatar a weon? with the background from megaman x? is that the joke??
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Weon's avatar is Green from Gunstar Heroes iirc.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
I just googled "gunstar heroes weon" and nothing came up so probably not.
Bing
Smash Master
Bones0
Smash Legend
From my experience, if you have to use jab in your combo, it probably sucks.
Bing
Smash Master
Thunders combo.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Dtilt is better. :D
Bing
Smash Master
Im just trying to think outside the box while still being effective. Reverse Fair can actually be kind of handy...lmfao.
Bones0
Smash Legend
I like thinking outside the box too. But sometimes after you are done thinking, you have to go back inside your box. lol /ColbertReport
Lovage
Smash Hero
good idea to consider the ranges of moves before you compare them in simple situations
Bing
Smash Master
Ignore this lmfao
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
lovage wasn't saying you had a good idea. lovage was saying that it would be a good idea to think about the ranges of moves more than you currently are
Bing
Smash Master
Shhhh Toph... shhhh
And when I asked that question, I was considering ranges, I guess it still wasnt enough? I suppose if they were further away I could turnaround d-tilt?
And when I asked that question, I was considering ranges, I guess it still wasnt enough? I suppose if they were further away I could turnaround d-tilt?
Lovage
Smash Hero
edit``````` waste
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
uhh if you're doing a combo that involves the first hit of uair then dtilt is definitely not gonna work lol
Bones0
Smash Legend
Wait, why not?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
1st hit uair barely has enough stun to connect to up tilt.
Bing
Smash Master
The first hit uair is not intentional. The reason Im asking about u-tilt is as a just incase they sdi it or I make the mistake of only doing the first hit. In actuality I want the full uair.
But actually upon thinking about it... d-tilt for sure wouldnt work because of the lack there of hitstun, and jab probably wouldnt work either...
But actually upon thinking about it... d-tilt for sure wouldnt work because of the lack there of hitstun, and jab probably wouldnt work either...
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
You could probably make jab connect because it hits surprisingly high. It's just... you wouldn't be able to do anything after it.
Bing, you remember how you were asking about jabbing Falcon a bunch of times during a waveshine chain instead of just doing a proper chain? This is pretty much the same question except rehashed for a different, similarly 'set' combo.
>__>
edit: Even shine would probably be better after 1st hit uair than jab because at least you can do something with a knockdown. Jab is like... susceptible to shield, SDI > jump (because this is probably mainly for vs other space animals), hold down > shine, etc.
Bing, you remember how you were asking about jabbing Falcon a bunch of times during a waveshine chain instead of just doing a proper chain? This is pretty much the same question except rehashed for a different, similarly 'set' combo.
>__>
edit: Even shine would probably be better after 1st hit uair than jab because at least you can do something with a knockdown. Jab is like... susceptible to shield, SDI > jump (because this is probably mainly for vs other space animals), hold down > shine, etc.
baka4moé
Smash Champion
Hi all,
I've been thinking to play fox for a while now, and I was wondering if I could get some advice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzAdd_Sm3cM&feature=plcp
Just friendlies though, Bo3. Any constructive criticism would be much appreciated, thanks
I've been thinking to play fox for a while now, and I was wondering if I could get some advice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzAdd_Sm3cM&feature=plcp
Just friendlies though, Bo3. Any constructive criticism would be much appreciated, thanks
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Learn how to hitconfirm Nair into grab
Do less attacks that would never hit him ever / dumb wavelands that do nothing
Recover better
Do less attacks that would never hit him ever / dumb wavelands that do nothing
Recover better
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
You're missing a lot of your aerials in front of him as if he doesn't have the time to punish them. But you're Fox (not Peach) so he does. And you then get lolcombo'd.
Your lasers are in bad spots a lot of the time. Think of lasers kind of like how the safe turnip pull (STP) works (only, because you can do them in the air, you can SH and then laser as they commit to something if they're far away and flailing around [which happens a lot] and still retain the option to waveland away, double jump, empty land, etc. if they just screw around and do nothing - lasers are actually pretty similar to empty land too, and can be good this way if used sparingly). For this reason alone I don't really like SHDL any longer... you have to commit to it right away so it's a less flexible technique. It's also less mobile (or flexibly mobile) than SHL because the dash turn around is prohibitively harder than SHL for many players and I like FFing to cut the retreat distance in a lot of cases to avoid giving up too much space.
tl;dr SHL is way better except vs like Puff and Ganon kind of because you can make the 2 lasers hit them kind of easily and they're both slow.
You have a lot of predictable shield habits (sidestep, roll, etc.) when you're in a bad position or if you've lost your footing. On the latter, don't mash defensive options and get ready to do a nice dash or jump motion so you can get your spacing going. On the former, remember that the lovely thing about Fox is that he repositions super quickly because he has good movement and covers huge vertical spaces quickly so jumping up to platforms and moving into a completely new part of the stage is a real option in a lot of cases. You do not want to be caught buffering lazily into things that commit you when you have options that you can action out of. Shine > WD away or jump away is a good one here.
Your (shine) gimping is alright as far as I can tell but this Marth also sucks so idk how much that's you vs. how much it's him. But not bad, so far.
That d-throw KO is terrible. Tell your friend to DI in and/or meteor cancel. F-throw > guess / react is pretty strong anyway.
Your dashing out of waveshines to link to grab is really inconsistent. You need that down. Work on dashing out of WD because it's seriously a crucial part of this character's everything.
You need to get better at using bair and use it more. It's just a generally good move and works in a lot of situations where you opt to waveland or miss him with another move, etc.
Air combo with uair and bair more. You use nair in a lot of situations where uair and bair are more appropriate for one reason or another.
Your lasers are in bad spots a lot of the time. Think of lasers kind of like how the safe turnip pull (STP) works (only, because you can do them in the air, you can SH and then laser as they commit to something if they're far away and flailing around [which happens a lot] and still retain the option to waveland away, double jump, empty land, etc. if they just screw around and do nothing - lasers are actually pretty similar to empty land too, and can be good this way if used sparingly). For this reason alone I don't really like SHDL any longer... you have to commit to it right away so it's a less flexible technique. It's also less mobile (or flexibly mobile) than SHL because the dash turn around is prohibitively harder than SHL for many players and I like FFing to cut the retreat distance in a lot of cases to avoid giving up too much space.
tl;dr SHL is way better except vs like Puff and Ganon kind of because you can make the 2 lasers hit them kind of easily and they're both slow.
You have a lot of predictable shield habits (sidestep, roll, etc.) when you're in a bad position or if you've lost your footing. On the latter, don't mash defensive options and get ready to do a nice dash or jump motion so you can get your spacing going. On the former, remember that the lovely thing about Fox is that he repositions super quickly because he has good movement and covers huge vertical spaces quickly so jumping up to platforms and moving into a completely new part of the stage is a real option in a lot of cases. You do not want to be caught buffering lazily into things that commit you when you have options that you can action out of. Shine > WD away or jump away is a good one here.
Your (shine) gimping is alright as far as I can tell but this Marth also sucks so idk how much that's you vs. how much it's him. But not bad, so far.
That d-throw KO is terrible. Tell your friend to DI in and/or meteor cancel. F-throw > guess / react is pretty strong anyway.
Your dashing out of waveshines to link to grab is really inconsistent. You need that down. Work on dashing out of WD because it's seriously a crucial part of this character's everything.
You need to get better at using bair and use it more. It's just a generally good move and works in a lot of situations where you opt to waveland or miss him with another move, etc.
Air combo with uair and bair more. You use nair in a lot of situations where uair and bair are more appropriate for one reason or another.
Lovage
Smash Hero
it's either me or baka in this thread, there can only be one
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
utilt is faster, yes. That, and dtilt is lower to the ground so after 1st hit uair, you're probably going to have to wait longer for the opponent to fall to a height where dtilt will connect, and by that time the opponent will have jumped away.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Double post, sorry:
Baka, if you were fighting a real Marth, you would've got CC grabbed about 15 times in the first minute.
Well, then again, I do stupid stuff like jabbing Marth on the ground or approaching with nair stupidly when I know I can get away with it. Just be warned that you can't fight Marth like that.
I'd also like to point out that you have to be a little more careful with how you come down from above. I saw you fall right onto a platform that Marth was sitting under very early in the video, and you got utilted for it.
Baka, if you were fighting a real Marth, you would've got CC grabbed about 15 times in the first minute.
Well, then again, I do stupid stuff like jabbing Marth on the ground or approaching with nair stupidly when I know I can get away with it. Just be warned that you can't fight Marth like that.
I'd also like to point out that you have to be a little more careful with how you come down from above. I saw you fall right onto a platform that Marth was sitting under very early in the video, and you got utilted for it.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Clearly you're going to win a popularity contest.
baka4moé
Smash Champion
thanks for the quick responses, esp kk for the detailed response, its quite helpful for learning how to think about the game differently (and drawing parallels b/t fox and peach).
wenbobular what you said is absolutely right, those problems are very glaring now that u mentioned them. any ideas on how to recover better? other than technical mistakes i guess
got ninjad, but thanks for the response as well toph, i feel a bit awkward when approaching with fox alot and dont know what to do other than wait more...
wenbobular what you said is absolutely right, those problems are very glaring now that u mentioned them. any ideas on how to recover better? other than technical mistakes i guess
got ninjad, but thanks for the response as well toph, i feel a bit awkward when approaching with fox alot and dont know what to do other than wait more...
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Recovering better is a two part thing.
The first part is basically how well you DI during a combo to force them to send you off as high as possible. You're basically dead if you have to recover low because recycling ledgehop untechable move is too good and Fox has no answer for it if the opponent has any sort of timing at all. Even Peach can just mindlessly space dair into stuff over and over (although you can pray for trades vs this because it racks slowly and takes a while to kill and she's not invincible).
The second part is basically figuring out how to recover to mitigate damage. This will sometimes involve going over a top platform so you eat an uair > whatever combo by Marth. Sometimes, eating damage so you can get hit offstage at a good angle to make a follow up recovery to the edge or whatever safely will be the correct course of action. And the only real way to learn this one is to just play and experiment and think about how much time actions take in relation to one another and make connections.
Nurgle.
edit: Learning to shorten the illusion proficiently is really strong too.
The first part is basically how well you DI during a combo to force them to send you off as high as possible. You're basically dead if you have to recover low because recycling ledgehop untechable move is too good and Fox has no answer for it if the opponent has any sort of timing at all. Even Peach can just mindlessly space dair into stuff over and over (although you can pray for trades vs this because it racks slowly and takes a while to kill and she's not invincible).
The second part is basically figuring out how to recover to mitigate damage. This will sometimes involve going over a top platform so you eat an uair > whatever combo by Marth. Sometimes, eating damage so you can get hit offstage at a good angle to make a follow up recovery to the edge or whatever safely will be the correct course of action. And the only real way to learn this one is to just play and experiment and think about how much time actions take in relation to one another and make connections.
Nurgle.
edit: Learning to shorten the illusion proficiently is really strong too.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Oh yeah, I played Fox vs Marth with Zhu for like 2 hours two nights ago and he gave me some pretty good high-level (here I mean high-level in both the "well-abstracted" sense as well as the "good player") advice in the form of (and I'm paraphrasing here) "Don't back up when Marth tries to gain footing." (i.e. pay attention to stage control)
unknown522
Some guy
Holy ****. Mango is so chill. Did that around the world stuff with him
ERayz
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, most Smashers in Québec are semi-retired, or just stopped caring about getting better at the game. Our competitive scene sucks tbh. It makes it hard to get any improvement, and practice.
But Pikalex is really cool for organizing such events, he's pretty much the only player to keep our scene "alive" . unfortunately, he'll be leaving us for France soon
EDIT: OH god, I just realized I'm like 3 pages late. Sorry
Warhawk
Smash Lord
I've seen it before but what is that weird uptilt thing with that Marth in Baka's link and how does that happen?
unknown522
Some guy
Np. Yeah I heard about him going to France soonYeah, most Smashers in Québec are semi-retired, or just stopped caring about getting better at the game. Our competitive scene sucks tbh. It makes it hard to get any improvement, and practice.
But Pikalex is really cool for organizing such events, he's pretty much the only player to keep our scene "alive" . unfortunately, he'll be leaving us for France soon
EDIT: OH god, I just realized I'm like 3 pages late. Sorry
Bones0
Smash Legend
I watched your vids on the toilet, so sorry if my critique is kinda ****ty.
You look like a Peach in a Fox suit. lol You never actually DDed... You only ever did that dash away dash attack towards that Peach players do. XD You could have simply DD grabbed him a lot more if you kept a constant fox trot going since he was committing to aerials so often. You also had a lot of opportunities to usmash to end stocks. I remember seeing at least one time where you dash attacked his missed tech instead of usmashing when he was over 100%. Also, when he is floating back down after a combo or something, you can quite often run under them and shield their aerial, then usmash OoS. It makes them much more scared when falling back so you'll be able to bait out bad side-B stalls and double jumps much easier.
@Warhawk
Idk what or why it happens (or if anyone knows), but I believe it occurs when Marth utilts as the wind is ending or something to that extent. It definitely only happens on DL.