KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys-UxCydMQA
Just watch that. Should answer most questions about shine spiking.
Just watch that. Should answer most questions about shine spiking.
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
Silent Wolf
...
seems to be the new trend for the fox thread. shouts out to erayz lolz
ViperGold42
Smash Lord
To be honest Boss, it really didn't but it was a sick combo video, picked up some stuff on it.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Hmm. Try this then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44CRrJVhUIo
Everything about shine spiking should be clear
If not then you should rewatch the video or look for more combo videos of Zelgadis or Chillin
Matches of Javi are optional (but recommended)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44CRrJVhUIo
Everything about shine spiking should be clear
If not then you should rewatch the video or look for more combo videos of Zelgadis or Chillin
Matches of Javi are optional (but recommended)
Eclectic Echo
Smash Apprentice
Uhm, I'm assuming you're asking how you shinespike?
I think they said you're a troll cuz troll posts are usually stupid and looking for attention. Something along those lines.
Not calling you stupid or saying looking for attention! But I think you are misunderstanding shinespiking or DI.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Shine spiking = you hit them offstage with shine.
If they're on your left they get sent left, if they're on your right they get sent right. Like with most moves.
For everything else, just defer to shined blind, Javi, M2K, Chillin Outz, and other media available on Youtube. Or turn on your goddamn gamecube. A lot of questions on SWF can be solved by turning on the goddamn gamecube.
If they're on your left they get sent left, if they're on your right they get sent right. Like with most moves.
For everything else, just defer to shined blind, Javi, M2K, Chillin Outz, and other media available on Youtube. Or turn on your goddamn gamecube. A lot of questions on SWF can be solved by turning on the goddamn gamecube.
Bing
Smash Master
Lmfao David. I actually Lol'd
Also for waveshining Falcon and other characters of his sort, I've already asked this but I have a question within the question. I asked that if I waveshine but jab inbetween the shines, is this a good way of adding on small bits of extra percent, I was told that its possible for them to sdi up out of the jab and lose everything, so what I was wondering is if I was to waveshine and double jab(so the good ole' 1-2 punch) then shine again, would this work any better seeing as they would get caught by the second jab while trying to get out of it.
Sorry Im trying to do different things that are a tad outside the norm. Like on Saturday when I played Unknown I was trying to sh fair waveshine(I didnt have any trouble but I know where the potential trouble is)
Also for waveshining Falcon and other characters of his sort, I've already asked this but I have a question within the question. I asked that if I waveshine but jab inbetween the shines, is this a good way of adding on small bits of extra percent, I was told that its possible for them to sdi up out of the jab and lose everything, so what I was wondering is if I was to waveshine and double jab(so the good ole' 1-2 punch) then shine again, would this work any better seeing as they would get caught by the second jab while trying to get out of it.
Sorry Im trying to do different things that are a tad outside the norm. Like on Saturday when I played Unknown I was trying to sh fair waveshine(I didnt have any trouble but I know where the potential trouble is)
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
No that's terrible.
Shining an airborne opponent has no legitimate follows. While it's certainly plausible to bank on the Falcon to not CC (because his options out of CC are traditionally meh and it's easy to condition them to DI elsewhere in preparation of <move>) you have much heavier, more effective punishment mixups than jab (which is, in general, the most escapable thing you can possibly do).
Better punishes include but are not limited to: up tilt (both reverse and normal), up smash, grab, and more shines.
edit:
In order for shine > WD > double jab > shine (repeat) to work, you basically need the opponent to do absolutely nothing or to jab them out of their double jump (and then not SDI into something, which is possible, but we'll go on assuming they don't) and then let them fall to the ground. Then, once they reach the ground, during the 4 frame window where they're in landing lag you have to shine them again and repeat this. It's so ridiculously complicated for an extra 3%. Just do the numerous good things that almost always work and that have tiny escape windows...
Shining an airborne opponent has no legitimate follows. While it's certainly plausible to bank on the Falcon to not CC (because his options out of CC are traditionally meh and it's easy to condition them to DI elsewhere in preparation of <move>) you have much heavier, more effective punishment mixups than jab (which is, in general, the most escapable thing you can possibly do).
Better punishes include but are not limited to: up tilt (both reverse and normal), up smash, grab, and more shines.
edit:
In order for shine > WD > double jab > shine (repeat) to work, you basically need the opponent to do absolutely nothing or to jab them out of their double jump (and then not SDI into something, which is possible, but we'll go on assuming they don't) and then let them fall to the ground. Then, once they reach the ground, during the 4 frame window where they're in landing lag you have to shine them again and repeat this. It's so ridiculously complicated for an extra 3%. Just do the numerous good things that almost always work and that have tiny escape windows...
Bing
Smash Master
Okay I didnt mean as a punish of course, like I would shine, jab once/twice shine repeat. However I do see what you're saying. Is there any viable characters that this would be useful against? (I find it easier then straight waveshining someone at this very point)
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
If you're not using this as a combo (or similar punish) then what are you using this for...? Shield pressure...? As a zoning technique in the neutral game...? >_>
Whatever.
Anyway, I'm sure there's some SUPER DUPER HIGHLY SITUATIONAL CIRCUMSTANCE in which this is sort of viable but you'll probably screw up more combos doing this than you will optimize (and you're seriously adding like 3% and risking being grabbed if they just happen to be holding down after being shined - not worth it at all).
Whatever.
Anyway, I'm sure there's some SUPER DUPER HIGHLY SITUATIONAL CIRCUMSTANCE in which this is sort of viable but you'll probably screw up more combos doing this than you will optimize (and you're seriously adding like 3% and risking being grabbed if they just happen to be holding down after being shined - not worth it at all).
Bing
Smash Master
Yeah this is true, if they CC the jab then Im relatively ****ed.
Any thoughts on using 1 hit fair(The first kick) shinegrab?
Any thoughts on using 1 hit fair(The first kick) shinegrab?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
As shield pressure - No, nair is better.
As a combo starter - Maybe? Nair is probably gonna be better the vast majority of the time.
As a linker - Maybe in Chile.
As a finisher - Maybe in Chile.
Using subpar moves for the sake of using subpar moves is not how you be original, FYI. It's just using subpar moves for basically the same purpose that the good move serves except you're using a subpar move instead. You're literally just cutting your efficiency. I understand that there are really subtle differences between fair and nair in this (maybe you WANT to give the impression that you're a bit more vulnerable than you are - but I know this isn't the case because then you're suggesting to shine grab which banks on the opponent holding shield and NOT disrespecting your tactic, which is what fair encourages).
If you want to be 'original' or be 'goofy', think of how you can make the unique traits of these subpar moves really significant (and beneficial). Think of different hitbox positionings, the pros of being multi-hit or not, range, etc. Not just... oh my god, nobody fairs. I wanna fair where normal people nair.
I liken this to someone choosing to use Shock or Rift Bolt over Lightning Bolt (MtG reference lol) when they're all available. Like, why? That's not 'weird' or 'creative'. It's just suboptimal.
As a combo starter - Maybe? Nair is probably gonna be better the vast majority of the time.
As a linker - Maybe in Chile.
As a finisher - Maybe in Chile.
Using subpar moves for the sake of using subpar moves is not how you be original, FYI. It's just using subpar moves for basically the same purpose that the good move serves except you're using a subpar move instead. You're literally just cutting your efficiency. I understand that there are really subtle differences between fair and nair in this (maybe you WANT to give the impression that you're a bit more vulnerable than you are - but I know this isn't the case because then you're suggesting to shine grab which banks on the opponent holding shield and NOT disrespecting your tactic, which is what fair encourages).
If you want to be 'original' or be 'goofy', think of how you can make the unique traits of these subpar moves really significant (and beneficial). Think of different hitbox positionings, the pros of being multi-hit or not, range, etc. Not just... oh my god, nobody fairs. I wanna fair where normal people nair.
I liken this to someone choosing to use Shock or Rift Bolt over Lightning Bolt (MtG reference lol) when they're all available. Like, why? That's not 'weird' or 'creative'. It's just suboptimal.
Bing
Smash Master
Alright, Imma hit the drawing board until I get my controller back (Or even get my ****ty spare)
Thanks David, I appreciate you answering my dumb questions
Thanks David, I appreciate you answering my dumb questions
Bones0
Smash Legend
lord karn
Smash Master
Doesn't fair have a different trajectory? I've found using it oftentimes causes the opponent to be sent at a somewhat more vertical angle which can extend the combo or lead into uair. It also seems to have much lower knockback than nair at mid-high percents so it can get a little extra damage in.
Bing
Smash Master
The way I was refering to its use was a sh one hit fair. So only using the first kick, which acts sort of like a jab, but with more lag, so yes, its pretty useless in that way.
lord karn
Smash Master
ah, I didn't catch that.
Winston
Smash Master
Yea, first hit fair is good to combo floaties into usmash/uair at KO percents imo. Not good for much else, though.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Idk if Fox's is different, but I SHFFL 2-hit fairs with Falco pretty frequently. It has such low KB, so it's perfect if you just want to carry them across the stage before doing something.
PGH Carroll
Smash Master
What percent does up throw rest stop working on no/missed DI?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Somewhere in the low 100s.
But against real Jigglypuffs I'd say anywhere between 50 and 70.
Fair can set up some highly specific combos with the weak hit. You can use it to avoid having to tech chase people when converting an air combo into a ground combo. Its multiple hits sometimes combo into illegitimate up tilts very effectively. It can be used to set up an up smash or uair KO (or whatever) when your other aerials are too strong to do so because of the opponent's percent.
There are also some innocuous little shield pressure things you can do with it but they're hard and largely inferior to his basic shield pressure stuff. And Fox's goal isn't to keep people in shield anyway - he really just wants to grab people or bait a stupid action that he can hit them for.
The things that Fair are useful for, however, do not come up very often. And the move itself is flimsy (vulnerable to combo DI, SDI, etc) and laggy so the execution windows for a lot of the stuff you're using it to "optimize" are really tight. I don't really recommend spending a lot of time with it. If all you do with it is use it to make combos work when nair and bair won't and hit people when they're just slightly too high for nair to work then you're probably getting very good mileage out of it (and actually benefiting from it).
But against real Jigglypuffs I'd say anywhere between 50 and 70.
Fair can set up some highly specific combos with the weak hit. You can use it to avoid having to tech chase people when converting an air combo into a ground combo. Its multiple hits sometimes combo into illegitimate up tilts very effectively. It can be used to set up an up smash or uair KO (or whatever) when your other aerials are too strong to do so because of the opponent's percent.
There are also some innocuous little shield pressure things you can do with it but they're hard and largely inferior to his basic shield pressure stuff. And Fox's goal isn't to keep people in shield anyway - he really just wants to grab people or bait a stupid action that he can hit them for.
The things that Fair are useful for, however, do not come up very often. And the move itself is flimsy (vulnerable to combo DI, SDI, etc) and laggy so the execution windows for a lot of the stuff you're using it to "optimize" are really tight. I don't really recommend spending a lot of time with it. If all you do with it is use it to make combos work when nair and bair won't and hit people when they're just slightly too high for nair to work then you're probably getting very good mileage out of it (and actually benefiting from it).
Bing
Smash Master
Back throw fair up-tilt bair.
The only combo I got on shroomed in our Apex set...
All of it was an accident except the bair..
The only combo I got on shroomed in our Apex set...
All of it was an accident except the bair..
JPOBS
Smash Hero
thats a pretty **** combo tho
edit: What the actual fuark? can't say T.I.T.S on smashboards? the website is so fake
edit: What the actual fuark? can't say T.I.T.S on smashboards? the website is so fake
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Are you freaking kidding me, Kirbykaze? How did Idea die!?!?!?
What in the actual ****. This game.
What in the actual ****. This game.
unknown522
Some guy
Lol. I remember that combo
lord karn
Smash Master
It looks like he survived but then decided that he deserved to die because that combo was so good.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I will **** you with a rake.Like dash attacking instead of usmashing!
It's all coming full circle.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Bones0
Smash Legend
Then that makes you a hoe.
So according to the discussion in this thread http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=294748&page=207
we can add fox to the group of characters who cannot win a national
we can add fox to the group of characters who cannot win a national
Bing
Smash Master
I lol'd
Fox can win a national. Just need to find a Fox main whos devoted enough to winning!
Bones0
Smash Legend
Roses are not red
Violets are purple, duh
Haiku! OMG!
Violets are purple, duh
Haiku! OMG!
Mahone
Smash Champion
Bones0
Smash Legend
Jiggs using Rollout vs. Team Oompa Loompa.
I approve.
I approve.
No m2k, no mango (scorp is not mango), no PP
Winston
Smash Master
Mango took Armada to game 5 in set 1 of G2 GFs... he still has to win another set even if he won game 5, but he was close enough that it clearly was a possibility for him to win. How can you claim that "fox CANNOT win a national"?
Isn't it kinda obvious that only puff, peach and falco can win nationals? Look at the results!