Sinji
Smash Master
Just want to say, Happy Birthday PB&J. Your birthday is special because its the same day as the tenth anniversary of Melee in the USA/Canada.
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
Bing
Smash Master
I actually really like this, Ive been trying to main Fox but whenever my confidence is down, I find it easy to switch to Falco which I find requires less confidence and percision, and if that going south, Marth...
Veetaak
Smash Lord
wait...
for how long has Lovage been in MBR?
for how long has Lovage been in MBR?
Lovage
Smash Hero
since it came out lol just didn't wear the purple tag thingy
joeplicate
Smash Master
that's how i do it now, so much slower and harder.....
JPOBS
Smash Hero
On the topic of which buttons for jumping, I've found that its better to be flexible with your button inputs. there are SO many techniques that require various kinds of jumps (including the numerous jump cancel techniques) that having only one method of inputing a jump seems entirely inefficient to me. Like when people say 'I use Y to jump", I kinda just look at them weird and wonder what's wrong with them.
I use all 3 methods of jumping depending on the exact technique I'm executing. Sometimes I even switch it up on the fly depending on the exact situation. One second I'll do upthrow->upair using X, another time i'll use Y, or sometimes I use up. It changes depending son how exactly I need to space the upair.
On of the biggest things that helped my techskill was when I realized I didn't need to have a standard jump button.
I use all 3 methods of jumping depending on the exact technique I'm executing. Sometimes I even switch it up on the fly depending on the exact situation. One second I'll do upthrow->upair using X, another time i'll use Y, or sometimes I use up. It changes depending son how exactly I need to space the upair.
On of the biggest things that helped my techskill was when I realized I didn't need to have a standard jump button.
joeplicate
Smash Master
^****
flexibility is the most underappreciated part of tech skill
flexibility is the most underappreciated part of tech skill
Thanos828
Smash Journeyman
I use control stick short hop for shdl, and I'm pretty consistant with it. I've never tried it for shield pressure though...it's better to "learn" your new controller rather than try to break it in
your brain subconsciously modifies your fingers as you play, molding your muscle memory so you get the correct outputs on the screen. your body wants to adjust to whatever's in your hands, because you value the correct tech skill. YOU can change MUCH faster than your controller.
even if your muscle memory stays 100% intact, and you stubbornly stick to all the old button pressing methods from your old controller
you're still handicapping yourself if you do anything to "break in" your new controller outside of the game, since every time you come back to it, it's essentially "new." it's almost like using a different borrowed controller every time you play. this defeats the purpose!
tech skill is learning your contoller. the point of practice is to become so familiar with your controller that you don't need to think about the "right" way to press the buttons to get the desired effect. it just happens naturally, because it's what you're familiar with. it's MUCH easier for your to adjust to your controller than it is for your controller to adjust to you.
your muscle memory is more plastic
you can change your controller whatever way you want, obviously, but you'll still need to re-learn that part of the controller afterwards. do whatever's easiest, but know that there's no magic way to get the "perfect controller," it's all just whatever you're used to.
on a related note, i re-learned how to short hop with up on the control stick today. (hopefully i can nail it down super solid with practice)
THAT **** IS BROKEN!!!! EVERYBODY who plays fox should learn how hahahaha
the only thing is that it's mad hard with some controllers. it's worth it if you can figure out, though. i didn't think i could pull it off with my controller, but i think it was a case of re-learning how to do it more gently.
i hope i can keep it up, because it seriously makes shield pressure twice as easy
trahhSTEEZY
Smash Champion
SHDL is pretty easy with control stick after a bit of practice.
ive been trying to learn using control stick for shield pressure, since the aerials come out SOOO fast since you dont move your finger from A. kinda difficult when you get in the moment with pressure and you'll flick too hard. guess i could use Z also..hrrm
ive been trying to learn using control stick for shield pressure, since the aerials come out SOOO fast since you dont move your finger from A. kinda difficult when you get in the moment with pressure and you'll flick too hard. guess i could use Z also..hrrm
Thanos828
Smash Journeyman
On the subject of jumping, for any movements out of shield like wd oos or oos bair or whatever I use R + Cstick. Especially easy for aerials since you don't have to move your thumb from the Cstick
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
I do ledgehop Bair and shinegrab with control stick
Everything else is Y
It took me so long to learn how to ledgehop Bair without just falling to my doom...
Everything else is Y
It took me so long to learn how to ledgehop Bair without just falling to my doom...
Sauce Boss
Smash Journeyman
I'm struggling with shine to bair. They just go under me to fast.
Doser
Smash Ace
Hit with the very top part of shine's hitbox, then hit up on the control stick, and then use the c-stick to back air.
PB&J
Smash Hero
Its not my birthday. Soft"s little sister hacked my facebook
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
joeplicate
Smash Master
So I tried implementing shield pressure with up last night after like 2 days of practice and I got ****ed up for it LOL
It felt like I was conditioning some bad habits into myself, since I would force opportunities to short hop with up (and usually mess it up). Even when I knew a shine would hit, instead of wavedashing out to follow it up I would try to do another sh nair out.
Pretty lame stuff, I figure either I have to focus on only implementing/practicing it in exactly the right situations (which is hard, cuz you need to spam something to get comfortable with it), or just practice it more on my own.
Or maybe just accept that it will be hard to learn and feel frustrating, but it will be worth it in the long run? Idk
It felt like I was conditioning some bad habits into myself, since I would force opportunities to short hop with up (and usually mess it up). Even when I knew a shine would hit, instead of wavedashing out to follow it up I would try to do another sh nair out.
Pretty lame stuff, I figure either I have to focus on only implementing/practicing it in exactly the right situations (which is hard, cuz you need to spam something to get comfortable with it), or just practice it more on my own.
Or maybe just accept that it will be hard to learn and feel frustrating, but it will be worth it in the long run? Idk
Vulpine1008
Smash Rookie
I was wondering how you moonwalk with fox. Is it the same finger motions as with captain falcon, only faster? Thank you for any information you can provide.
Palpi
Smash Hero
It isn't that you have to do it faster, but just because of the character mechanics, it is a less noticeable moonwalk. You will be able to see it better if you walk the direction that you want to moonwalk first.
Joe, I would stick with y/x, but that's just me haha
Joe, I would stick with y/x, but that's just me haha
Sauce Boss
Smash Journeyman
I tried that and it worked, thanks man.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Doing stuff like sh nair instead of wavedashing out into a combo might not necessarily be a result of your being ABLE to shield pressure with up though; it's probably just that you've been practicing that motion a lot recently and therefore were still in that "mode" where "hitting my opponent/opponent's shield with shine" led to "go berserk with more nairshines" due to that muscle memory being fresh from practice with CPU's/alone. I think **** like that goes away once it becomes second nature; I wouldn't worry too much about conditioning bad habits unless you find yourself not reacting to shines hitting even after you've already stopped actively trying to perfect the techskill for short hopping with up.
****, I hope that paragraph made sense LOL.
rokimomi
Smash Lord
So is there any trick/gimmick to get thunders combo off of reverse waveshine? Like when doing reverse waveshine to upsmash, I just hold the backwards direction and up-cstick after I turnaround and I dont even have to let go of the analog stick so it's pretty foolproof. But doing that for thunder's would make me do a tilt...
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXfym1Sfx8c
http://www.youtube.com/user/wenbodou?feature=mhee#p/u/3/cX92lswhqy4
http://www.youtube.com/user/wenbodou?feature=mhee#p/u/4/JsnnvkgMm7E
http://www.youtube.com/user/wenbodou?feature=mhee#p/u/6/WZzeJVEpBgs
http://www.youtube.com/user/wenbodou?feature=mhee#p/u/8/rqBoHb6pelk
Some vids
First one is friendlies vs Cactuar, 2nd one is vs Hat, those are the ones that are most interesting probably (game 1 and 2 vs Hat, game 3 is ... <_<)
The rest are slightly less interesting but my techs kill is probably better, I got pretty nervous vs Hat <_<
http://www.youtube.com/user/wenbodou?feature=mhee#p/u/3/cX92lswhqy4
http://www.youtube.com/user/wenbodou?feature=mhee#p/u/4/JsnnvkgMm7E
http://www.youtube.com/user/wenbodou?feature=mhee#p/u/6/WZzeJVEpBgs
http://www.youtube.com/user/wenbodou?feature=mhee#p/u/8/rqBoHb6pelk
Some vids
First one is friendlies vs Cactuar, 2nd one is vs Hat, those are the ones that are most interesting probably (game 1 and 2 vs Hat, game 3 is ... <_<)
The rest are slightly less interesting but my techs kill is probably better, I got pretty nervous vs Hat <_<
U have to let go of the analog stick then press a.....so reverse waveshine the when u see fox has turned around ley go of the analog and jab
Lovage
Smash Hero
don't turn around in your shine
just do a waveshine backwards, turn around with the analog stick, and then jab.
rokimomi
Smash Lord
Aw, there's no ez method, aight, guess I'll grind it out...
Edit: These comments are directed towards our matches only. Your play might have just been affected by me being the opponent, so what was seen might not be an accurate representation of your consistent play.
@Wenbo: When I play against you, it feels like you have no idea what your Fox's effective range is. You stand so far away that I don't feel threatened at all. Unless you are lasering when you are outside of that effective range and trying to get the opponent to approach you, pretty much ALL of the time you are out there is time wasted (after stage zoning has been set up).
On the FoD match in particular, I was actually just sitting around waiting to see how long it would take you to approach.
Whenever you are outside of neutral range, you just dash dance until you decide to try and run in or until the other guy runs out of patience. No other options are used. No baiting is done aside from the actual DD. Fox has the tools to counter... almost anything... Don't limit yourself.
Against that kind of play in particular, it is very easy to just do an undershot sh aerial and spot dodge as you come in, as you try to punish the landing lag of the aerial when you definitely can't reach me in time.
That said, your game once you get a hit in and have positional advantage is pretty solid aside from a few spacing mishaps. Work on your neutral spacing and try and get that "comfort zone" a bit closer to the opponent imo.
Oh, and think about why you are dash dancing under a far side platform. It doesn't seem like you really take advantage of the positional benefit of doing that, so I didn't really understand why you would go to the far side of the stage and start dash dancing. There is a good defensive purpose for doing it, but without the understanding, it doesn't really do much for you.
@Wenbo: When I play against you, it feels like you have no idea what your Fox's effective range is. You stand so far away that I don't feel threatened at all. Unless you are lasering when you are outside of that effective range and trying to get the opponent to approach you, pretty much ALL of the time you are out there is time wasted (after stage zoning has been set up).
On the FoD match in particular, I was actually just sitting around waiting to see how long it would take you to approach.
Whenever you are outside of neutral range, you just dash dance until you decide to try and run in or until the other guy runs out of patience. No other options are used. No baiting is done aside from the actual DD. Fox has the tools to counter... almost anything... Don't limit yourself.
Against that kind of play in particular, it is very easy to just do an undershot sh aerial and spot dodge as you come in, as you try to punish the landing lag of the aerial when you definitely can't reach me in time.
That said, your game once you get a hit in and have positional advantage is pretty solid aside from a few spacing mishaps. Work on your neutral spacing and try and get that "comfort zone" a bit closer to the opponent imo.
Oh, and think about why you are dash dancing under a far side platform. It doesn't seem like you really take advantage of the positional benefit of doing that, so I didn't really understand why you would go to the far side of the stage and start dash dancing. There is a good defensive purpose for doing it, but without the understanding, it doesn't really do much for you.
Aber
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2010
- Messages
- 276
Lovage when you said dont turn around in your shine then wd to do the combo should this be the same for reverse waveshining say marth/peach/falcon? Cause when I do it I ALWAYS turn around in shine then wd into dash/up smash/grab/whatever.......Is there something inherently inferior with this as oppose to simply wding back from the shine THEN turning around???? If so, what is the difference between doing the two? button pressing-wise lol
JPOBS
Smash Hero
lol i'm loving the Bean and Endr tags. stolen!
Winston
Smash Master
Critique me too, cactus
D=
D=
Need vids.
Lovage
Smash Hero
turning around after the waveshine is a bit easier and slightly faster than doing a reverse waveshine.
there's not that many situations where i'd try to use a reverse waveshine over just waveshining backwards and then turning around (but they do exist!)
i don't know what you're confused about the button-inputs, you pretty much already explained what they are yourself.
Aber
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2010
- Messages
- 276
lol yeah I did.....I've just gotten accustomed to turning around in shine then wding for whatever reason its easier for me cuz sometimes when i try to wd backwards after shine i just do nothing...
edit: If I can do the reverse waveshine consistently, is it still as effective?
Palpi
Smash Hero
I just waveshine backward and dash out, seems to work fine.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
man i suck at reverse thunders. i always either dash attack, ftilt or jab in the wrong direction (ie, the original direction), all on accident.
i usually just go for sh dair or something instead if i really want a reset.
i usually just go for sh dair or something instead if i really want a reset.
unknown522
Some guy
oh shiz. Hat still plays melee?
I miss that guy.
Edit: Velocity still plays as well? wow
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
@ Cactuar - thanks for the critique, it's basically as you say <_<
It's kinda a problem with all my characters against Fox, he just seems so fast that I get nervous entering a certain range ...
Anyways, I think these are friendlies between you and Winston (I recognize Winston's Fox anyway)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAdmyyDXz_U
It's kinda a problem with all my characters against Fox, he just seems so fast that I get nervous entering a certain range ...
Anyways, I think these are friendlies between you and Winston (I recognize Winston's Fox anyway)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAdmyyDXz_U
Winston
Smash Master
Yea that's me and cactus
Man... my combo on your last stock in that first match is awesome...
Winston
Smash Master
Should have ended with a runoff dair. I'm not impressed.
.... >_> ....
god damnit
.... >_> ....
god damnit