Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Oskurito]

Well, I have to say that I use turn around waveshine (and find it very useful) a LOT for very quick edgehogs and I often find my self edgehoging someone (specially marths)just when he's about to grab the edge after his upb and I think, because of the little invincibility frames you get for grabbing the edge, it's pretty useful.

 

[Brookman]

We're talking about turning around before wavedashing out to pursue someone you've hit with the shine as opposed to going out backwards.

 

[takieddine]

It depends brookman, turning around in the shine is a bit slower.( 3/60 or 1/20th of a second)

Sometimes you want to waveshine backward to uptilt. Another use is to nair shuffle shine waveshine back....out of grab range. With turning around it'd be too slow and you will get grabbed.

Its hard to argue one is better than the other for the suttle difference, but waveshine backwards usually shows you have more control of your character, and that is definately a good thing.

 

[IrArby]

Couldn't you just learn to direct the analog after your jump for whatever direction forward or backward. That way you'll only turn around if you do so purposefully.

 

[SCOTU]

It depends brookman, turning around in the shine is a bit slower.( 3/60 or 1/20th of a second)

Sometimes you want to waveshine backward to uptilt. Another use is to nair shuffle shine waveshine back....out of grab range. With turning around it'd be too slow and you will get grabbed.

Its hard to argue one is better than the other for the suttle difference, but waveshine backwards usually shows you have more control of your character, and that is definately a good thing.

3 frames slower is not going to put you in grab range anyway. Waveshine >utilt is almost always inferior to waveshine>usmash or waveshine>grab(uthrow)>uair (both of which require you to face towards your opponent).

Couldn't you just learn to direct the analog after your jump for whatever direction forward or backward. That way you'll only turn around if you do so purposefully.

That is the way that you do the backwards waveshine, so yes. however, i find it easier to waveshine in rhythm by rotating the control stick between 2 and 6 (numpad) and pressing the right controls at the right times (which results in turn arounds if going backwards).

 

[Silent Wolf]

Why don't people just practice. I don't see why so many people have trouble with something like that, just press the buttons in the right order like anything else.

 

[Oskurito]

Why don't people just practice. I don't see why so many people have trouble with something like that, just press the buttons in the right order like anything else.

Because some techs are really hard, and it takes a lot of time to master them if you are not talented with finger cordination and speed. Besides, most people have priorities on their lives that are certainly above ssbm (or games)

I'm not trying to sound offensive, but that's the truth...

 

[IrArby]

honestly most stuff just takes repitition not even skiil though obviously people naturally inclined to be good at this sort of thing like SW would learn this stuff faster. Its not until you start linking all of the stuff together fluently and more importantly flawlessly that it involves a great deal of skill.

Alot of times when I pull of something good with Fox it feels more like my fingers regurgitated this combo out of nowhere with little conscious thought. Thats more repitition since I know I'm not really all that skilled with Fox especially in contrast with good Fox players.

 

[Silent Wolf]

few random friendlies i have
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62hBiQFDgbs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGgiXmN-2qo

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Also every character can "Shine turn around" onto the ledge if they dash cancel perfectly and turn around wavedash. It's hard, to do because you have to have a loose control stick so you'll be able to dash cancel by tapping it down the slightest bit, then dashing the slightest bit and so on. Also very old news, but a lot of people probably don't know.

Couldn't you just cancel your run with the edge, turn around and WD off? It's about the same speed, and much easier to do.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Yes .

 

[Brookman]

Those vids are great Otto. Just wondering, when you jab shields and nair, are you jab canceling? they're pretty fast.

 

[Brookman]

I love fox's fast fall / bonner

you should definitely waveshine more man.

 

[Silent Wolf]

i dont jab cancel, just do it fast

 

[Brookman]

That was a trap, I just forced you to prove how untechnical you are.

 

[brawlpro]

Lol .

 

[takieddine]

Are jabs interuptible with jumps? if thats the case, you dont necessarily need to jab cancel into a shffl nair.

 

[Brookman]

dude. . . . . .

 

[SCOTU]

yes, jabs can be interrupted w/ a jump the same way they can be w/ a crouch like in jab cancels, so jab canceling into a jump is slower than just doing it fast. Lol, you didn't show how untechnical otto is, you showed how un-informed you are XD jk man.

 

[Brookman]

you guys have all done a fine job displaying how insufficient your senses of humor are.

GGs.

 

[Remco]

Whenever I waveshine, and try to do anything after, I end up shielding. For example when I try waveshine->usmash I end up jumping because shield+cstick=jump. Any tips on how to fix this?

And when I'm close to my opponent, I freak out and start spamming dtilt and ftilt, what's better to do instead of spamming tilts?

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Whenever I waveshine, and try to do anything after, I end up shielding. For example when I try waveshine->usmash I end up jumping because shield+cstick=jump. Any tips on how to fix this?

Dont hold down the L/R button, just let go of it as soon as possible

And when I'm close to my opponent, I freak out and start spamming dtilt and ftilt, what's better to do instead of spamming tilts?

Don't let them get to close. If they do try to get away somehow: Rolling, WDing, just running, anything lol. Spacing! If they do get to close and you dont have enough time to get away I guess putting up your shield.
And about the dtilt, crouch canceling to a dtilt or dsmash (which is most likely what youre doing) is often not a bad idea at all.

 

[Remco]

Thanks for your response Now I'm releasing L as fast as possible, but I got a new problem now. When I watch youtube video's fox vs peach, people waveshine, and do another waveshine. But when I try, my wavedash doesn't seem to get the same amount of distance. Thus making me shine but not hit.

 

[Brookman]

Whenever I waveshine, and try to do anything after, I end up shielding. For example when I try waveshine->usmash I end up jumping because shield+cstick=jump. Any tips on how to fix this?

And when I'm close to my opponent, I freak out and start spamming dtilt and ftilt, what's better to do instead of spamming tilts?

First and foremost, CHECK YOUR CONTROLLER. Many of my controllers are worn in to the point that the shoulder buttons actually STICK when I press them in.

If that is not the case you just have to PAY ATTENTION to how you press the shoulder button in, and whether or not you are leaving it depressed as your go to "release" after wavedashing.

The best thing you can do is pretend it's Brawl and just use it as a trigger and release, practice wavedashing normally this way till you don't see the shield come up.

Thanks for your response Now I'm releasing L as fast as possible, but I got a new problem now. When I watch youtube video's fox vs peach, people waveshine, and do another waveshine. But when I try, my wavedash doesn't seem to get the same amount of distance. Thus making me shine but not hit.

This, again, will be a matter of practice. Start slower, practice your wavedashing more, see if you can get them as long as possible (perfect wavedash: the control stick should be moved as close to horizontal as possible without resulting in an air dodge/triangle jump)

Another important aspect of wavedashing FARTHER is RELEASING the control stick. In other words, treat a wavedash like a smash attack. Instead of holding a weaker forty-five degree angle and just inputing the jump and air dodge follow these steps:

1. JUMP (VERY IMPORTANT TO WAVESHINING)
2. Angle Control Stick (practice practice practice, Just wavedash back and forth across FD or you can wavedash through adventure mode!)
3. Air Dodge (LOL!)

Once you are happy with your wavedash begin to add the shine in before and after, but treat it as a seperate motion. In practice, you don't NEED to wavedash lightning fast out of the shine, and if you practice waveshining as fast as possible you are simply going to reinforce bad habits/sloppy technique.

By treating it as two seperate motions you will reinforce muscle memory, once you are confident with this you can begin to build up speed in your waveshines.

I recommend just shining > wavedashing out BY JUMPING FIRST > then shining again.

Once you are pleased with the length of the first wavedash and you have speed out of and into the next shine, begin to practice waveshining repeatedly.

After you are comfortable waveshining forwards you can beging to practice waveshining backwards. This is why I stress JUMPING FIRST out of the shine, otherwise your backwards waveshines will be slow and sloppy and we don't want to see that, now do we?

 

[Remco]

Don't get me wrong, I've been wavedashing for atleast a year now. I can't even recall last time I failed doing a wavedash, just need to get my wavedash to have more distance.

 

[Brookman]

Don't worry about 'proving yourself'. Frankly, if you can't control the length of your wavedash then you aren't good at wavedashing. That post is a pretty comprehensive guide on how to wavedash farther and faster, regardless of how long you've been wavedashing.

To be honest, I mess up wavedashing pretty frequently. We're not going to judge you based on your ability to wavedash or not, don't be so afraid.

 

[GOTM]

wavedashing longer requires a different timing of when you dodge after u jump. u just learn to adjust when your length increases

 

[SCOTU]

You can also dash at the end of a waveshine to add a substantial amount of distance, making it easy to waveshine>jc usmash marth, even on a flubbed up wavedash.

 

[Falcinho]

The longer your wavedashs are the bigger is your p...ostcounter =D

 

[Brookman]

A good way to learn how to wavedash well is to practice with ice climbers.

 

[kodansha]

I started learning how to play Melee this week and I have a few questions:

1. I'm having a lot of difficulty with waveshining. Is it just reliant on handspeed, getting your thumb from B to X and shifting the control stick? Or do people use tapjump to wavedash in that instance (which seems like a really dumb idea)?

2. How do you turn around in firefox? I mean, when you end the animation, sometimes I end up facing towards the stage and sometimes away from the stage. How do you ctonrol which direction you face at the end of the animation?

3. At 0:14 in this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=NSiasA2gfv8 Chillin does an instant walljump off the ledge. I've been able to do it a few times by trying to just drop from the ledge and then walljumping immediately, but I can't get it to work consistently. Any tips?

4. (Unrelated to Fox) Occasionally while wavedashing, I end the wavedash with a shield. How do I avoid doing that? [I'm assuming it's just practice, but if there's a guide somebody could point me to, I'd really appreciate it.]

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Dragmire]

I'll answer the 4th one because it's short

You are holding R/L when you land causing a "shielddash"

 

[Brookman]

I started learning how to play Melee this week and I have a few questions:

1. I'm having a lot of difficulty with waveshining. Is it just reliant on handspeed, getting your thumb from B to X and shifting the control stick? Or do people use tapjump to wavedash in that instance (which seems like a really dumb idea)?

2. How do you turn around in firefox? I mean, when you end the animation, sometimes I end up facing towards the stage and sometimes away from the stage. How do you ctonrol which direction you face at the end of the animation?

3. At 0:14 in this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=NSiasA2gfv8 Chillin does an instant walljump off the ledge. I've been able to do it a few times by trying to just drop from the ledge and then walljumping immediately, but I can't get it to work consistently. Any tips?

4. (Unrelated to Fox) Occasionally while wavedashing, I end the wavedash with a shield. How do I avoid doing that? [I'm assuming it's just practice, but if there's a guide somebody could point me to, I'd really appreciate it.]

Thanks in advance for any help!

1. Practice. To start, you need to be proficient with wavedashing, just look a few posts backwards, I made a pretty extensive explanation. A good way to build your speed is to simply hold down to wavedash in place in between shines.

2. As far as I know, that's random.

3. I used to be able to do this pretty consistently but have since become horrible. Something to try: use the c-stick to let go of the edge and then push away. Otherwise, use search or keep experimenting on your own.

4. What he said, or check your should button reset time.

 

[SCOTU]

I started learning how to play Melee this week and I have a few questions:

1. I'm having a lot of difficulty with waveshining. Is it just reliant on handspeed, getting your thumb from B to X and shifting the control stick? Or do people use tapjump to wavedash in that instance (which seems like a really dumb idea)?

2. How do you turn around in firefox? I mean, when you end the animation, sometimes I end up facing towards the stage and sometimes away from the stage. How do you ctonrol which direction you face at the end of the animation?

3. At 0:14 in this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=NSiasA2gfv8 Chillin does an instant walljump off the ledge. I've been able to do it a few times by trying to just drop from the ledge and then walljumping immediately, but I can't get it to work consistently. Any tips?

4. (Unrelated to Fox) Occasionally while wavedashing, I end the wavedash with a shield. How do I avoid doing that? [I'm assuming it's just practice, but if there's a guide somebody could point me to, I'd really appreciate it.]

Thanks in advance for any help!

2. It's not random. Ankoku and I figured this out once. I'll check w/ him to see if he remembers what determined it.

3. How to do this on FD consistently is to ledgedrop, then double jump holding towards the wall, so that you grab the edge at the peak of the jump. Then if you press away (but not down) you'll instant walljump.

 

[takieddine]

Hrm? I though at the end of the firefox animation you can be facing either way....

I've done it where I would miss the ledge by a quarter of a firefox's length then FastFall and grab the ledge backwards.

Or am I missing the point?

 

[Remco]

About drillshining, at what point should I time my L cancel? When just practicing drillshines without hitting a char, it's easy. But when hitting a char, you seem to fall down less fast.

Oh and do you guys hold down when drillshining, or do you get the stick back in neutral before the shine?

 

[Brookman]

The timing is still the same, you press L (or R) right before you hit the ground. You do fall at different speeds when you hit a character and when you hit a shield. You just need to keep practicing.

 

[Silent Wolf]

somebody make a good melee video

 

[Tee ay eye]

I think the best candidate for doing so would be you.

 

[takieddine]

somebody make a good melee video

I was about to, but I've just given up since all i get from people around here is *****ing that they can do the stuff in the video or that it isnt frame perfect (LOLOLO doubleshines arent frame perfect)...So im bitter about it.