omgwtfToph
Smash Master
yeah I do that
(posting this cuz you seem sad that nobody acknowledged the technique lol)
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
(posting this cuz you seem sad that nobody acknowledged the technique lol)
Winston
Smash Master
bair shine also has more lag, so it's less safe overall than nair shine
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
Bair has a longer recovery period than nair. Nair is better for shield pressure.
We should try to get out of the habit of going to town on the opponent's shield all the time. Sometimes you miss the opportunity to catch them as they try to escape because you're too busy with techskill. Happens to me all the time.
We should try to get out of the habit of going to town on the opponent's shield all the time. Sometimes you miss the opportunity to catch them as they try to escape because you're too busy with techskill. Happens to me all the time.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Playing Falco kind of helps with that, I find.
Anyway, the best shield pressure is probably spaced bairs.
Anyway, the best shield pressure is probably spaced bairs.
voorhese
Smash Master
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Repeated dair shine isn't that great because Fox's drill always has a frame gap after the dair and before the shine. But in my experience it's good when you mix it in with other stuff, like particularly fast dairs after a shine, because it often beats out oos options like Doc's usmash oos.
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
just shinegrab ffs.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
LOL
I specifically said after the shine.
Shinegrab always fails when someone tries to do something after the shine. Roll out after the shine, shine OOS, you name it; shine grab loses to those options.
Kason Birdman
Smash Champion
yeah, that is not falco
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
def not falco
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
i wasnt replying to you, just saying in general. if you're going to spend considerable amounts of time shield pressuring, you're better off shine grabbing early or baiting the roll.
nair shines safer then dair shine.
Sinji
Smash Master
Tru that. I try to Down air> shine upsmash on peach and Capt.Falcon.
D-air> u-grab on Marth, Samus.
D-air> u-grab on Marth, Samus.
Sinji
Smash Master
No not really. If you L-Cancel then waveshine after, they shouldn't be able to punish you.
voorhese
Smash Master
im sure, some people can...maybe jman and some of the other great fox's
Sinji
Smash Master
Winston
Smash Master
You have to do some shield pressuring to make those things effective though. Baiting something punishable is the goal of shield pressuring.
I'm not sure exactly what Brookman is referring to but the situations where dair doesn't work are:
-when you miss slightly and don't connect with all the hits/they SDI it (happens a lot on dumb characters like Samus)
-when they are in the air when you hit them with dair (they get no stun when they land and will probably hit you with something)
-when shield pressuring, if you mess up even slightly there's enough of a frame gap to get shieldgrabbed/other fast moves oos
why would you go for grab against Samus? It doesn't lead to anything. Usmash is better for the most part.
Just listen to Sveet, guys. Do the same thing every time cause it's the BEST OPTION. **** works.
Imo, the main usefulness of dair on shields is that you can hitconfirm it and follow up with a waveshine or whatever. You have to be nearly perfect with that ****, though. And I certainly wouldn't recommend it against characters with really fast out of shield options.
Imo, the main usefulness of dair on shields is that you can hitconfirm it and follow up with a waveshine or whatever. You have to be nearly perfect with that ****, though. And I certainly wouldn't recommend it against characters with really fast out of shield options.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
you should learn to JC grab.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
The thing that makes Mango's shield pressure amazing isn't the nair shines... any Fox worth his salt can do those. It's how well Mango terrorizes his opponent into staying in their shield and enduring that **** because he makes you feel like rolling etc. isn't even an option. Or something...
PB&J
Smash Hero
hey, i just did this combo to mario(twice actually)
drill shine >wave dash > drill shine > d-throw tech chase> back throw> full jump> dair> up tilt > up air> death
try it out..it worked twice
drill shine >wave dash > drill shine > d-throw tech chase> back throw> full jump> dair> up tilt > up air> death
try it out..it worked twice
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Dair utilt is interruptible because you're drilling them into the ground from the air, but that sounds sexy.
Winston
Smash Master
Maybe if you can fastfall the drill so that you land before they do? Like how falco combos, I feel like that can happen sometimes
You used a platform??
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
Backthrow doesn't combo usually combo into anything. Interesting combo though.
Good topics floating around in here guys. Keep it up.
Good topics floating around in here guys. Keep it up.
voorhese
Smash Master
[ scientology ]
His nair shines are extremely good, but there's more to it. It's because he's perfect/consistent enough to stay almost completely safe and even if you think you've found an opening he mixes up his timings extremely well. He's also really good at picking up on changes in his opponent's mental state (like when you're panicking/feel trapped in your shield/have to get away as soon as possible) and he can do all this without focusing on it too much so he's still able to catch rolls and stuff on reaction.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Back throw Marios onto platforms and then hit them :D
It doesn't work if they survival DI and then wiggle but nobody does that.
Looool if I hit two drillshines as a combo on a Mario I'd probably keep doing it because it means they're not SDIing the drill and then I'd try to throw them off the level after I did my 30-40 damage. Or I'd waveshine U-smash. Because I'm BORING.
It doesn't work if they survival DI and then wiggle but nobody does that.
Looool if I hit two drillshines as a combo on a Mario I'd probably keep doing it because it means they're not SDIing the drill and then I'd try to throw them off the level after I did my 30-40 damage. Or I'd waveshine U-smash. Because I'm BORING.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
whoa, that sounds amazing. I'm going to experiment with this later.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Kirbykaze, wiggle doesn't affect hitstun.
Edit: I now realize that you're saying the Mario won't have to tech on the platform. Touche.
Edit: I now realize that you're saying the Mario won't have to tech on the platform. Touche.
PB&J
Smash Hero
it was on yoshi's and on a platform where the drill uptilt to up air hit..funny thing is the first time i back threw by mistake but the second i did it on purpose and it worked the same
everlasting yayuhzz
Smash Champion
I think it's hilarious to backthrow Marths who you suspect are DIing inwards into a nair->usmash. I always laugh when I get it because it's like 50% damage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrK44igL6Ds#t=2m40s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrK44igL6Ds#t=2m40s
PB&J
Smash Hero
i remember that vid..too good