Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[DtJ Jungle]

out of the jab reset part? i think at zero i dont think you can get out of that. beyond that, SDI upwards will pop up up instead of forcing you into the stand up animation.

 

[FoxLisk]

yeah, SDI the jab reset up. at some point even regular DI up is sufficient. also fox's jab isn't very strong, but it's not a strict reset for as long as, say, jiggs' is, so if you buffer a getup attack or something (just spam a after you land) at a reasonable %, instead of standing up after the jab you'll getup. you can also buffer rolls. not sure what the %s are on any of this though.

 

[Silent Wolf]

How does one DI out of thunders combo? I'm way too old skool

Try your best to DI the shine away.

If you get jabbed by Fox at under 3X% (It's somewhere in the low 30s) you can't do anything. Holding a direction in hopes of rolling won't work, and neither will smash DIing. Even if you smash DI up you just bounce up a bit but still continue to stand in place.

Above 3X% your best bet would be smash DIing the jab up or pressing A after getting jabbed to do a get up attack, this usually hits them because they expect you to either stand or roll. Rolling to the side is better than standing but still easy for them to follow.

 

[voorhese]

wait, double stick teching works by holding down on the cstick fo ASDI, so why not up for ASDI up?

to get out of thunders?

 

[Lovage]

Try your best to DI the shine away.

If you get jabbed by Fox at under 3X% (It's somewhere in the low 30s) you can't do anything. Holding a direction in hopes of rolling won't work, and neither will smash DIing. Even if you smash DI up you just bounce up a bit but still continue to stand in place.

Above 3X% your best bet would be smash DIing the jab up or pressing A after getting jabbed to do a get up attack, this usually hits them because they expect you to either stand or roll. Rolling to the side is better than standing but still easy for them to follow.

yea thats what i thought too but then this weekend mango was popping up after my jab at like 15-25% with falco

 

[Silent Wolf]

yea thats what i thought too but then this weekend mango was popping up after my jab at like 15-25% with falco

yeah falco can do it at lower percents, fox cant.

 

[Tomacawk]

teching the shine is a better route than trying to sdi the jab imo. there are a lot of times you can snag a tech by using well timed option selects with R/L

 

[Roman.]

when i think i'm about to get shined, i pretend to wavedash at the same time as the other fox and it usually works to tech

 

[CalamityofCox]

i wont even think of wavedashing wihen i tech so i find that very random and lawl.

 

[Roneblaster]

you guys need to stop talking about all this wave-cheating, your gonna get banned

 

[unknown522]

Try your best to DI the shine away.

If you get jabbed by Fox at under 3X% (It's somewhere in the low 30s) you can't do anything. Holding a direction in hopes of rolling won't work, and neither will smash DIing. Even if you smash DI up you just bounce up a bit but still continue to stand in place.

Above 3X% your best bet would be smash DIing the jab up or pressing A after getting jabbed to do a get up attack, this usually hits them because they expect you to either stand or roll. Rolling to the side is better than standing but still easy for them to follow.

tech the shine.

 

[Silent Wolf]

yeah that too. its hard to tech the shine when they dont start the combo from an aerial and just a shine by itself though, so knowing what to do otherwise is good.

 

[unknown522]

that's true. I was thinking about that as well.

 

[FoxLisk]

I have a question about teching. I know that if you hit L while in hitlag, you cannot tech that move, but can you tech another move that comes quickly after it? Obviously this applies to if you're getting, say, dair-shined. if I hit L during the dair, can I tech the shine?

 

[Turazrok]

Is shine OOS supposed to be grounded? It's the only thing I haven't yet mastered besides shinebears

 

[Silent Wolf]

Is shine OOS supposed to be grounded? It's the only thing I haven't yet mastered besides shinebears

It doesn't HAVE to be, but it would be helpful if it was. You can still do things out of a shine OOS if its not grounded if there are platforms, just jump, shine, waveland on the platform towards them and try to catch them with a dair (if they don't fall from shine or if they do fall from shine but crouch canceled) or just fall off and tech chase. Falco's usually crouch cancel shine OOS when they dair your shield, which leaves you able to combo the shine into a bair from your second jump if your quick enough.

 

[Turazrok]

It doesn't HAVE to be, but it would be helpful if it was. You can still do things out of a shine OOS if its not grounded if there are platforms, just jump, shine, waveland on the platform towards them and try to catch them with a dair (if they don't fall from shine or if they do fall from shine but crouch canceled) or just fall off and tech chase. Falco's usually crouch cancel shine OOS when they dair your shield, which leaves you able to combo the shine into a bair from your second jump if your quick enough.

Lemme rephrase that. Is it possible to get a grounded shine OOS?

 

[Silent Wolf]

yeah you just have to do it really fast lol

 

[Flamin Roy]

yes IT IS you just have to be really fast with it

 

[KAOSTAR]

I have a question about teching. I know that if you hit L while in hitlag, you cannot tech that move, but can you tech another move that comes quickly after it? Obviously this applies to if you're getting, say, dair-shined. if I hit L during the dair, can I tech the shine?

no. if you hit r/l during hit lag you will not tech. you will have 40 frames of wait until you can tech.

you can hit r get hit and tech the next move tho. 20 frame window of tech. good to tech aerial shine. you need to sdi as close to the ground as possible and asdi into the ground. you can't tech into the ground with sdi

you would have to hit l/r b4 or after you got hit. otherwise you could spam and tech the next one.

wall/ceiling however the answer would be yes assuming you make contact with the walk/ceiling within 20 frames of hitting l/r the first time.

still spanking is the 2nd best way to not tech. the first is don't press l/r at all

 

[voorhese]

yeah you just have to do it really fast lol

idk, just slide from y to b, and it should be pretty easy after awhile, practice it while holding down in ur shield first, then learn how to do it while sitting in shield normal

 

[ZoSo]

^Bad idea. You don't want to get in the habit of aiming your shield down. Just try to consciously press jump first, like reverse waveshining.

 

[voorhese]

^Bad idea. You don't want to get in the habit of aiming your shield down. Just try to consciously press jump first, like reverse waveshining.

to practice the timing dude...thats all, once u have the timing do it the other way... thats how i taught myself, and i dont hold down on my shield like ever

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I can't reverse waveshine T_T

 

[KAOSTAR]

yea. I got in the habit of angling my shield down cuz m2 is tall.

now silent wolf just sh uairs and 85% thats a stock.

at least I block peach d smash lol.

I gotta break this habit tho

 

[Silent Wolf]

yea. I got in the habit of angling my shield down cuz m2 is tall.

now silent wolf just sh uairs and 85% thats a stock.

at least I block peach d smash lol.

I gotta break this habit tho

this has never happened, sh uair is a horrible approach lol.

 

[FoxLisk]

no. if you hit r/l during hit lag you will not tech. you will have 40 frames of wait until you can tech.

you can hit r get hit and tech the next move tho. 20 frame window of tech. good to tech aerial shine. you need to sdi as close to the ground as possible and asdi into the ground. you can't tech into the ground with sdi

okay i think you answered my question but your wording was a little confusing to me. you're saying that if the following occurs, I will not tech:

I hit L while being daired
a shine hits me
I hit the ground 15 frames after i hit L

right? like, pressing L during hitlag removes your ability to tech for 60 frame, and does not give you the 20 frame window to tech other moves that can hit you and knock you down before that window is up?

 

[NOz]

quick question: i can waveshine->waveshine falcon with some momentum easily. but without momentum, i have trouble reaching him after the first waveshine. should you be able to waveshine falcon across stage (if he doesn't di away) without any momentum? ive seen it done in training mode and stuff. do they walk a bit after the waveshine, or are the waveshines just super perfect?

 

[Silent Wolf]

quick question: i can waveshine->waveshine falcon with some momentum easily. but without momentum, i have trouble reaching him after the first waveshine. should you be able to waveshine falcon across stage (if he doesn't di away) without any momentum? ive seen it done in training mode and stuff. do they walk a bit after the waveshine, or are the waveshines just super perfect?

Walk a little bit after each waveshine. Get good at that and he won't be able to get out no matter what.

 

[NOz]

good stuff bro. ill get to work. thanks.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Is there enough stun to waveshine walk sh shine -> waveland onto a platform fall off -> bull****?

im realyl asking about the walk sh shine

 

[Roman.]

Walk a little bit after each waveshine. Get good at that and he won't be able to get out no matter what.

o.O

i think it's easier to just lengthen your waveshine and not walk at all...

falcon doesn't go far so you don't have to be perfect at waveshining... just about average i guess

someone like marth is a different story though

 

[Silent Wolf]

Is there enough stun to waveshine walk sh shine -> waveland onto a platform fall off -> bull****?

im realyl asking about the walk sh shine

You wouldn't really need to walk, just sh towards him, so yes.

o.O

i think it's easier to just lengthen your waveshine and not walk at all...

falcon doesn't go far so you don't have to be perfect at waveshining... just about average i guess

someone like marth is a different story though

Either way works.

 

[KAOSTAR]

this has never happened, sh uair is a horrible approach lol.

I didnt say anything about approaches.

I just meant you were close to me, probably shield pressuring and my head was exposed. because of my bad habit of angling my shield down- and you SH uaired me.

This happened two days ago lol. and like 2-3 days b4 that. Put the pipe down ^_^

okay i think you answered my question but your wording was a little confusing to me. you're saying that if the following occurs, I will not tech:

I hit L while being daired
a shine hits me
I hit the ground 15 frames after i hit L

right? like, pressing L during hitlag removes your ability to tech for 60 frame, and does not give you the 20 frame window to tech other moves that can hit you and knock you down before that window is up?

At ANY point that you hit L/R all the way down, you have activated the tech cycle.

Once you have pressed L/R, you have a 20 frame window in which you are able to tech. You can tech by SDI/ASDI into a wall or ceiling, or by ASDI into the floor, or simply falling to the floor.

It is possible to do this b4 or after hitlag. Ideally you want to hit L/R as close to getting hit, or as close to the frame after your hitlag ends. This will help maximize your chances of teching. If you choose to do it after, you would have already SDI close to the floor, and you would ASDI and hit L/R on the same frame. the next frame you would tech on frame 1 of your tech cycle.(This is for an instant tech. Such as techin immediately from falcons dair, or the shine.)

You must wait 40 frames between L/R presses. Your teching window of 20 frames must expire, and then there is a 20 frame cool down after that.

-If you hit L/R again during your tech window, you have just messed up. You will not tech, and you cannot enter the tech cycle for the next 40 frames. 20 from the time you hit L/R the second time, plus the normal 20 for the cool down.

-If you hit L/R during the hitlag from a move(the time in which you SDI) you have instantly messed up and cannot tech for 40 frames, the 20 from the normal tech window and the following 20 for the cool down.

-If you hit L/R during the 20 cool down frames, you will not be able to tech for the next 40 frames.

Everything is the same for wall/ceiling teching except that if you hit the wall during SDI or hitlag you will go into the tech animation vs on the ground you must wait until hitlag ends and you ASDI into the ground.

ASDI down is the same thing as a weak CC. You can use the control stick or C-stick. C-stick inputs will take priority.

A strong CC happens while actually crouching.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So if you are in the middle of a move but know you are going to get hit.

-Hit L/R b4 you get hit(as close to the hit as possible) then your 20 frame window starts
-SDI as close to the floor as you can<perpendicular to the angle in which the enemy attack will send you>
-ASDI(you cannot contact with SDI) into the floor, if this has happened within 20 frames you will tech.

You can tech the next attack as long as you follow the rules listed above. But since you CANNOT enter the tech animation during hitlag aka the time in which you SDI, you MUST wait till its over. So the more hitlag a move has, the least likely you will be able to tech it having pushed L/R prior to getting hit.

*So as long as the hitlag of the Nth attack ends by frame 19 of your tech cycle you can ASDI into the ground(DOwn) on your 20th frame and still tech.*

 

[GOD!]

I guess I'm one of the only ones who uses the c-stick, control stick, and b to shine oos. It didn't take long to learn and I'm about 50% consistent without even practicing it.

Q: When I waveshine -> grab marth, I always end up smashing my control stick after the waveshine to dash -> jc grab. Do you have to dash after the waveshine or should I be having a longer wavedash?
(from vids it looks like fox has to dash. I'm also wanting to know the general margin of error I have where I can get a guaranteed grab.)

 

[Silent Wolf]

I didnt say anything about approaches.

I just meant you were close to me, probably shield pressuring and my head was exposed. because of my bad habit of angling my shield down- and you SH uaired me.

This happened two days ago lol. and like 2-3 days b4 that. Put the pipe down ^_^

i quit smoking boi

I guess I'm one of the only ones who uses the c-stick, control stick, and b to shine oos. It didn't take long to learn and I'm about 50% consistent without even practicing it.

Q: When I waveshine -> grab marth, I always end up smashing my control stick after the waveshine to dash -> jc grab. Do you have to dash after the waveshine or should I be having a longer wavedash?
(from vids it looks like fox has to dash. I'm also wanting to know the general margin of error I have where I can get a guaranteed grab.)

You don't HAVE to dash if you do a perfect WD, unless maybe they SDI away, but you should go for the dash every time. There's nothing wrong with having to dash.

 

[KAOSTAR]

LOl, I kno otto.

.

 

[Tomacawk]

i quit smoking boi

***** that's a mistake

 

[Silent Wolf]

***** that's a mistake

Nah, over time I developed an allergic reaction to it lol D:
even then i smoked for a while

 

[duyzee]

Just wondering does anyone have a tech skill routine to practice? My tech skill is okay, but I'd like to practice, I know I can practice alone, shing, shling, shffling waveshing etc, but I feel if I had a routine to practice, it would be more efficient.