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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

Shinku

Shinku

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im pretty good at wave shining so far and its my favorite thing to do with fox. but for the past month, it hasn't been very fluent and ive been jumping out and messing up. i probably need a new controller but my question is this. can i still be good without a constant wave shine like mix it up to a wave shine into a upsmash or drill kick? i would like for you to answer this and what you think about it please.
 
Shinku

Shinku

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ooo that makes sense, thanks. one more question, other than yourself, what other fox player do you know or look at thats seems really cool or technical etc?
 
Silent Wolf

Silent Wolf

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Other technical or flashy players you could look up would be DaShizWiz, LunInSpectra, or Mew2King. Might not be all Fox though.
 
Oskurito

Oskurito

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Shinku said:
what other fox player do you know or look at thats seems really cool or technical etc?
Click to expand...
Me xD click on my sig or watch this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Fz7NaltkE


On topic: I finally read doraki's thread on DI and I realise that DI'ng upwards doesn't change anything when trying to change the knockback trajectory of a move that sends you upwards, so I was wondering then how the **** did I shine out of Marth's up throw, I've been doing this every once in a while against marth usually 2 or 3 times per match, If scotu can answer this with frame data I'll gladly aprecciate it.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

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so two questions...one is does thunder's combo always work? sometimes i feel like the shine to wd jab doesn't go far enough even though i feel like i perfect wavedashed (though i'm much worse at that since i switched grips to learn pivoting..i'm relearning RSHDL and perfect waveshining:( )

so i'm wondering if the shine can be DIed even though they are falling down unlike characters like marth....i'm assuming they can

also..at some damages they can CC the shine? i really get screwed by that when it happens...at least i think that was what happened today..not sure..tell me if it's impossible..maybe they teched and i didn't notice..i think at any damage they can tech the shine by hitting down and L at the right times right?

oh it's possible they just jumped before my shine hit them...but i wouldn't think they'd have time..most shines that hit peole occur after an aerial that hit


anyways, i was also wondering if it matters if you hit down before jumping on to wl with invincibility...i guess if you fastfall by accident you lose it? wondering how many frames i'm losing:\ oh well

what else...oh ya..i noticed in a falco guide someone saying to di marth's chaingrab up and shine... up di doesn't work on fox/marth/doc's upthrow correct? just jiggs...

anwyas the thunder's combo bit really bothers me..because while it is useful and i want to improve my accuracy with it...i need to learn what to do about the common counters to it..i guess just wd to dash to shield if they di too far for the jab and i dunno what to do about the others since i'm not really sure what happened..all i know is my shine hit after my aerial and that he was crouching and able to punish before the jab i think
 
Miharu

Miharu

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knightpraetor said:
so two questions...one is does thunder's combo always work? sometimes i feel like the shine to wd jab doesn't go far enough even though i feel like i perfect wavedashed (though i'm much worse at that since i switched grips to learn pivoting..i'm relearning RSHDL and perfect waveshining:( )

so i'm wondering if the shine can be DIed even though they are falling down unlike characters like marth....i'm assuming they can

also..at some damages they can CC the shine? i really get screwed by that when it happens...at least i think that was what happened today..not sure..tell me if it's impossible..maybe they teched and i didn't notice..i think at any damage they can tech the shine by hitting down and L at the right times right?

oh it's possible they just jumped before my shine hit them...but i wouldn't think they'd have time..most shines that hit peole occur after an aerial that hit


anyways, i was also wondering if it matters if you hit down before jumping on to wl with invincibility...i guess if you fastfall by accident you lose it? wondering how many frames i'm losing:\ oh well

what else...oh ya..i noticed in a falco guide someone saying to di marth's chaingrab up and shine... up di doesn't work on fox/marth/doc's upthrow correct? just jiggs...

anwyas the thunder's combo bit really bothers me..because while it is useful and i want to improve my accuracy with it...i need to learn what to do about the common counters to it..i guess just wd to dash to shield if they di too far for the jab and i dunno what to do about the others since i'm not really sure what happened..all i know is my shine hit after my aerial and that he was crouching and able to punish before the jab i think
Click to expand...
Uhh, with Thunder's combo, you just have to be close to them when you shine them, then do a near-perfect wavedash (maybe perfect), then jab before they roll/get up/do a getup attack. If you miss the jab, you can put your shield up to shieldgrab the get up attack, or WD out of your shield to chase the roll, then grab/shine/whatever again.

If they CC the shine and you still jab them again, you can shine again, or if you know that they're going to CC the shine, just grab/usmash after the waveshine.

And yes, it's possible to shine out of Marth's uthrow chainthrow at around 26%. But they'll probably utilt you at that point if they know what they're doing.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

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i was really asking whether up di works on marth's upthrow...or if the guide was just wrong
 
Oskurito

Oskurito

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purekorea said:
How do you do reverse utilts? Is it just a matter of tapping back and up quickly?
Click to expand...
yeah, you've answered yourself. Same thing for reversed jabs which are useful when someone ASDI the dair trying to avoid the jab>upsmash combo (which is actually a combo and I've tested it) but you've got to be really fast when turning around (reversing your position) because if you don't then it wont be a combo anymore and your opponent maybe able to shield before you connect with the jab
 
purekorea

purekorea

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K just checking if there was a different way such as jab canceling where you can hold down and away instead of hitting down inbetween each jab.
 
Shinku

Shinku

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dawn001 said:
can someone tell whats wrong with my fox and what do i need to work on that will be alot of help!!

Dawn Vs. TGM 2- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfybXjy4CfY
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i recommend try shuffling come Nair's and coming at the marth with some Nair's and up air's. also run at your opponent and do a waveshine into a upsmash and/or waveshine into grab then a up-air or back-air alot for a combo. if know hes going to grab you, side step alot and do a shine or up tilt. the key is to mix up your attacks with wave shines. finish him, taunt, pause, and zoom in lol
 
L

lillight3

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does anyone know if you should fast fall a short hopped down air? it seems to make more sense to me if you dont so more of the drill can hit but i need a second opinion.
 
Oskurito

Oskurito

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No need to fast fall it, in this case not fast falling the dair will make it better since it does more damage, but some people feel more comfortable by shuffling it since this way is kinda easy to L-cancel, is because some people find harder to wait for fox to land after the dair and hit L. I prefer to shuffle it on the ground but I always L cancel only when ledgehopping the dair (so it does a lot of damage sometimes it does 20% or so if you had hit a big/tall character)
 
SCOTU

SCOTU

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i think it can do up to like 16-18%....

I don't FF it when i'm hitting someone, but i do against shields. Also, if you're infiniting with it, if you FF it, there are less hits, so it does less damage, but it's also harder to SDI out of, and impossible to ASDI out of. If you FF it, you get 3 hits, if you don't FF it, you get 6 hits.

@brawlpro: you don't need to FF it to L-cancel it... they're two independent things
 
SCOTU

SCOTU

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actually, i do it the other way around. I ff it into shields, and i don't FF it in infinites.
 
RaynEX

RaynEX

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heh? I thought it was better to FF infinities so they have a harder time di.ing. Then when doing it into a shield, not FFing because the hits do more dmg to the shield over time. What're the benefits of the FFed dair into the shield?
 
4 Aces

4 Aces

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RaynEX, you could've just edited your post. Anyway, I've been wondering: When you dash and do a dash canceled shine for a follow-up, I heard that dashing and instead of dash canceling --> shine, I should instead dash --> JC the shine. Is that true? Why? I think it's because to dash cancel, you need to wait until after the dash animation frames before you can cancel the dash. I guess JC'ing is to shine quicker out of a dash, perhaps to hit targets like Marth, for perhaps waveshine combos and such?

Can people DI the shine? I read the DI guide by Doraki, and it says that you can't DI away in the same direction that you're pushed, but I don't know.....sometimes I feel like my targets just barely manage to escape me when I'm waveshining. I'm hitting more consistently in matches though. :)

Also, I've been having trouble waveshining Marth and a few other characters like Ness (he's not so bad). When I'm in training mode, and I waveshine Marth, it says in the consecutive hits bar that I'm hitting him multiple times, but idk, I'm not really sure since it kinda feels longer.....too long -- the waveshine intervals I mean. What I do know is that nairshining works on Marth. What else works? Maybe Waveshine --> dash --> JC shine? Or maybe drillshine repetitions?

One last thing. I notice that when I try to wavedash off a platform or stage, my character tends to just barely stop at the ledge and sometimes put up a shield along with it. I would have to wavedash again right where I stopped to get off. This doesn't happen when I'm wavedashing backwards though. Does this have to do with the "falling-over-nearly-falling-off" animation? or am I just wavedashing too small? I tried to wavedash a little larger, and I think that might, be it, but I'm not sure. I'm having minimal success; I would instead airdodge sometimes (and fall to my doom).

Also, how come when I'm right at the ledge, the very tip of it, I would oftentimes instead airdodge to my doom (mainly when I'm facing foward, but backwards sometimes as well)? These things keep happening and it's getting really annoying. :(
 
4 Aces

4 Aces

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brawlpro said:
the edit button works half of the time...and computer probs can lead to dbl posts -.-'

you can di from a waveshine...and you'll get stopped at the edge if your wavedashing forwards...the animation where they are about to fall off comes in.
Click to expand...
Oh...he he, I feel stupid...dbl posts? Maybe disabled?

Oh, ok, thanks! But how do you get around that? Sometimes I want to waveshine off and shine spike, when I accidentally shine off a real opponent. I usually end up in a pit at the bottom of Final Destination. Yeah, I know it's bad, but when you're stuck with a training mode cpu for an opponent, you tend to do these things. :laugh:
 
SCOTU

SCOTU

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Silent Wolf, i saw in your vids against Ka-master, which i rewatched today, you tend to jump back toward the stage while drill kicking frequently. Also, you frequently put shines in between your laser spamming. What is the purpose of this? or is it just for fun?
 
Silent Wolf

Silent Wolf

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Well, ever since I learned to ledgehop, I've never broken the habit of doing a drill from the ledge. So sometimes I change it up by backing up. People get used to me just coming at them and move back to where I can't get hit, and I can often punish them. :p Don't do it.

It's easier for me to SHDL with shines before them. I only do them if I'm far enough away in most scenarios though.
 
SCOTU

SCOTU

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allow me to rephrase my question: while recovering (not ledgehopping), you'll often use a drill kick as you double jump. I was wondering about that use of the drill kick.
 
Silent Wolf

Silent Wolf

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It seems as though each hit of te dair either cancels the momentum I have towards the outside of the stage, or just brings you further. Similar to using Marth or Sheik's fair to recover a bit. Just more hits. If you aren't high enough to use the dair effectively in that manor, use uair, since it has to hits, and bair doesn't. It really works.
 
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