Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[GigaBowserXyZ]

that was indeed a strange video choice, I'd have expected something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL8xHanN3Nk

I mean this is blatantly a joke too but it's closer to the truth than that teams vid.

cant stop laughing at this.

 

[Xyro77]

The SBR sounds like a great establishment, I've never seen so many members of a group smacktalk it as much as I've seen the SBR lol.

aside from the meta ban stuff, we get along pretty well

 

[Renegade TX2000]

lol more then half of the sbr are mk users... and m2k bribing people to vote no is failure, as he makes promises to split tournament cash and all that promising to team up is priceless... It's obvious that he's broken but **** if you really want him in like that HE DESERVES to be banned because he knows for a fact He won't be dominant without him... "hmm", the anti ban are fail

 

[DUCKAtl]

meta knight take's skill to use, it's hard to kill your opponent unless they're above 130%, and two things he's cheap for is having the ability to ledge stall and neutral b forever. The ledge stalling can be solved by using toon link or link to up b him off or just simply wait till he gets off the ledge, i have ledge stalled before and the only punishing move to use if someone gets close enough in range is up b. Neutral b can just simply be avoided by staying air born and coming down with a down smash. Honestly, if your going by that MK is alien to the whole game's physics than go ahead and take out Marth and Game & Watch because they we're the only veterans that didnt get nerfed so they're technically alien

 

[Remzi]

I personally guarantee, that if we get a temp ban, nobody will want to go back to having MK in =)

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I personally guarantee, that if we get a temp ban, nobody will want to go back to having MK in =)

MK mains are jumping up and down and waving their arms in front of you.

 

[Kinzer]

Man, I wish such horrible players would attend the same tournaments as I do.

Easy money for me.

A time machine makes for nice money too.

Considering the video was made when?

*Just for those who didn't notice.*

 

[etecoon]

MK mains are jumping up and down and waving their arms in front of you.

mains too lol

even worse for someone like me that plays both : p but I don't really care, learning new characters is fun

 

[Zolios]

akuma was banned from SF2, just felt you should know that, and the reason no other character was banned was because they didn't break most of the games core components, mk does mainly because of his ability to have a safe option in 90% of positions

Yeah, but Akuma was more of a secret character, and was meant to be nearly impossible to beat.

 

[CaliburChamp]

lol more then half of the sbr are mk users... and m2k bribing people to vote no is failure, as he makes promises to split tournament cash and all that promising to team up is priceless... It's obvious that he's broken but **** if you really want him in like that HE DESERVES to be banned because he knows for a fact He won't be dominant without him... "hmm", the anti ban are fail

Your a ****ing moron. Just another kid with a mental disorder.

 

[aeghrur]

We don't need a smash senate.
We should all just put our trust in the self-elected aristocracy that is the SBR.
They know best, always.

 

[DUCKAtl]

those *******s on that gimpy video are gay, I use MK correctly, not cheaply and MK players, such as myself, will find it nearly impossible to adapt to the jello like characters of brawl

 

[Vanill4]

is anyone going to respond on the equal representation thing?

Characters should get equal representation when they get equal representation in tournaments.



The most qualified people should be in the SBR. Most likely, they play in and consistently place well in tournaments. Most likely, they don't do this with low tier characters.

Also, SBR ruleset is RECOMMENDED. As has been mentioned, it's up to TOs to make their own rules. For example, in Melee (not to start a flame war), the SBR ruleset suggests DK64 and Rainbow Cruise on neutral, as well as allowing MKII and Green Greens. When was the last time you saw a major tournament with those precise rules? Also, for *Pound* 4, Plank is (albeit with some controversy) not allowing Mute City. TOs will make decisions regardless of what the SBR "recommends."

That being said, Brawl would be a better game without MK, and I voted pro-ban.

 

[generalsmash]

yes IMO i think gw and wario are better than meta in teams. This is why hobo18 will be a test. I HOPE it works the way i want it too

That is a good team Wario and G&W. Wario's Chomp + an U-Smash from G&W could be deadly at a decent amount of damage.

 

[Abbra Cadav3r]

the fact that this discussion is even being had makes this whole community look like its falling apart. The game has been out a year, a proper tier list is not even possible at this point and your talking bans. I would fall into the mid level range along with 99% of the community and i main falco like i have since melee. And I enjoy making strats to deal with MK who 2 people around here main. MK is nowhere near broken, he has no matchups that I would call 100-0 or 10-0, and this means he is beatable, and this is with him having a advanced metagame and other fighters having an underdeveloped one.

coming from playing sf for over a decade i can tell that this community has gotten out of touch, everyone needs to take a step back and realize how ******** this sounds, yes MK is a great character with only a few weaknesses. But he has weaknesses and people are more concerned with whining about them then exploiting them. This early in a games life tiers are highly irrelavant, even matchup charts are pointless. Look at that ness player who beat M2k, everyone here is under the impression that ness is a crap character, maybe the real problem is a community that doesnt have enough players who take on "low tier" characters as mains.

Everyone seems to follow tiers like sheep and its pretty sad. If there are players consitently wrecking MK then start asking them how they do it, and watching replays of them.

The inclusion of MK is going to eventually force other characters to develop a good metagame for him, maybe even make them look for new techniques which will only strengthen the game as a whole, so lets stop whining and start labbing.

 

[etecoon]

those *******s on that gimpy video are gay, I use MK correctly, not cheaply

'correctly' is whatever makes you win, the word "cheap" has no place in competition. if something is indeed too good it can be ban worthy but you can never blame someone for going to every extreme under the allowed rules to win, it's much more unsportsmanlike than whatever "cheap" things they are doing.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

meta knight take's skill to use, it's hard to kill your opponent unless they're above 130%,

Gimping?

and two things he's cheap for is having the ability to ledge stall and neutral b forever.

You can hit him after his Tornado is over...

The ledge stalling can be solved by using toon link or link to up b him off or just simply wait till he gets off the ledge, i have ledge stalled before and the only punishing move to use if someone gets close enough in range is up b.

Link? No. Only punishing move is up-b? How about Nair, Fair, and Uair?

Neutral b can just simply be avoided by staying air born and coming down with a down smash.

What if he goes up in the air in nado?

Honestly, if your going by that MK is alien to the whole game's physics than go ahead and take out Marth and Game & Watch because they we're the only veterans that didnt get nerfed so they're technically alien

Marth got nerfed, what are you saying?

Kirby didn't get nerfed.

How does that make them alien in any way, shape, or form?

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Your a ****ing moron. Just another kid with a mental disorder.

lol is that your best way mr. anti ban? anything else that you want to say? I tell the truth... MK mains GO INSANE and call names, way to back up your theory keep failing

 

[HolyCrusader]

the fact that this discussion is even being had makes this whole community look like its falling apart. The game has been out a year, a proper tier list is not even possible at this point and your talking bans. I would fall into the mid level range along with 99% of the community and i main falco like i have since melee. And I enjoy making strats to deal with MK who 2 people around here main. MK is nowhere near broken, he has no matchups that I would call 100-0 or 10-0, and this means he is beatable, and this is with him having a advanced metagame and other fighters having an underdeveloped one.

coming from playing sf for over a decade i can tell that this community has gotten out of touch, everyone needs to take a step back and realize how ******** this sounds, yes MK is a great character with only a few weaknesses. But he has weaknesses and people are more concerned with whining about them then exploiting them. This early in a games life tiers are highly irrelavant, even matchup charts are pointless. Look at that ness player who beat M2k, everyone here is under the impression that ness is a crap character, maybe the real problem is a community that doesnt have enough players who take on "low tier" characters as mains.

Everyone seems to follow tiers like sheep and its pretty sad. If there are players consitently wrecking MK then start asking them how they do it, and watching replays of them.

The inclusion of MK is going to eventually force other characters to develop a good metagame for him, maybe even make them look for new techniques which will only strengthen the game as a whole, so lets stop whining and start labbing.

Its too late man. People have created elaborate reasons as to why they cannot deteat high level players. This mental block will remain as long as there is Meta Knight mains. Some people cannot change or overcome.

 

[CaliburChamp]

the fact that this discussion is even being had makes this whole community look like its falling apart. The game has been out a year, a proper tier list is not even possible at this point and your talking bans. I would fall into the mid level range along with 99% of the community and i main falco like i have since melee. And I enjoy making strats to deal with MK who 2 people around here main. MK is nowhere near broken, he has no matchups that I would call 100-0 or 10-0, and this means he is beatable, and this is with him having a advanced metagame and other fighters having an underdeveloped one.

coming from playing sf for over a decade i can tell that this community has gotten out of touch, everyone needs to take a step back and realize how ******** this sounds, yes MK is a great character with only a few weaknesses. But he has weaknesses and people are more concerned with whining about them then exploiting them. This early in a games life tiers are highly irrelavant, even matchup charts are pointless. Look at that ness player who beat M2k, everyone here is under the impression that ness is a crap character, maybe the real problem is a community that doesnt have enough players who take on "low tier" characters as mains.

Everyone seems to follow tiers like sheep and its pretty sad. If there are players consitently wrecking MK then start asking them how they do it, and watching replays of them.

The inclusion of MK is going to eventually force other characters to develop a good metagame for him, maybe even make them look for new techniques which will only strengthen the game as a whole, so lets stop whining and start labbing.

Quoted for Truth.

2ndSteel gave me an infraction for being an MK main.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

the fact that this discussion is even being had makes this whole community look like its falling apart. The game has been out a year, a proper tier list is not even possible at this point and your talking bans. I would fall into the mid level range along with 99% of the community and i main falco like i have since melee. And I enjoy making strats to deal with MK who 2 people around here main. MK is nowhere near broken, he has no matchups that I would call 100-0 or 10-0, and this means he is beatable, and this is with him having a advanced metagame and other fighters having an underdeveloped one.

WE KNOW HE'S BEATABLE.

Get some background info before you come in here with your BS. Your Scrub Central MK's are nothing like real MK's. I guarantee it.

those *******s on that gimpy video are gay, I use MK correctly, not cheaply and MK players, such as myself, will find it nearly impossible to adapt to the jello like characters of brawl

Answer something for me, do you own the Prima Guide for SSBB?

 

[_WindeX_]

What's m2k gonna do?

 

[Sieguest]

lol more then half of the sbr are mk users... and m2k bribing people to vote no is failure, as he makes promises to split tournament cash and all that promising to team up is priceless... It's obvious that he's broken but **** if you really want him in like that HE DESERVES to be banned because he knows for a fact He won't be dominant without him... "hmm", the anti ban are fail

lol is that your best way mr. anti ban? anything else that you want to say? I tell the truth... MK mains GO INSANE and call names, way to back up your theory keep failing

The fact that you'd single out one person isn't really proving a point...

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

What's m2k gonna do?

Play MK since Atl. North TOs won't ban him.

 

[Xyro77]

That is a good team Wario and G&W. Wario's Chomp + an U-Smash from G&W could be deadly at a decent amount of damage.

yea i guess but i can assure you that playing a wario and or gw in teams is far more frustrating than meta. meta cant nado or go all out offensive as much in 2vs2. it kinda hold him back.

 

[DUCKAtl]

i agree wit him^, wait till brawl hits the MLG Pro Circuit 2010 and there are more national tourneys before we make any big decisions such as this, i mean there's has never been a character removed from smash tourneys at a whole like this would result in,

 

[Teran]

Answer something for me, do you own the Prima Guide for SSBB?

Maxfire does.
Remember, MK has a hard counter.

 

[Remzi]

Maxfire does.
Remember, MK has a hard counter.

You're my hero

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Maxfire does.
Remember, MK has a hard counter.

Teran I love you.

 

[Minwu]

I propose we appoint Palpatine to grand ruler of the SBR, with 49% weight on his vote. Jeng Droga gets 2%. Any TOs caught disobeying the SBR's freedom-loving decision will be shot.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

AlphaZealot is Proban.

Really?! I considered AZ to be the epitome of anti-ban, I guess he switched?

 

[Teran]

I propose we appoint Palpatine to grand ruler of the SBR, with 49% weight on his vote. Jeng Droga gets 2%. Any TOs caught disobeying the SBR's freedom-loving decision will be shot.

Gooooood Anakin goooood!
Now you are learning the power of the Dark Side!

The senate of Smash Bros will be reorganised into the first Galactic Empire new SBR!

 

[Nick A]

Over centralization is the problem. I know I am repeating what many others have said, but when you are learning a character you have to immediately ask if it can compete with MK to even be tournament viable.

We are beginning to see the same issue with Nu-13 in BlazBlue.

 

[Red Arremer]

Really?! I considered AZ to be the epitome of anti-ban, I guess he switched?

As said - from what I've gathered from him, he is Neutral with a slight tendency to Pro-Ban.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

The fact that you'd single out one person isn't really proving a point...

neither does your reply... but yeah i was trying to prove a point not really State it. I was aiming at mk in general using m2k as an example + what i said was the truth. atleast i have actual INFO. meh no point in arguing over this lol. People who want mk in are mk mains or do better against them then other characters such as marth and snake that fear that if mk is banned they'll have to deal with those 2 characters... The Pro ban want him gone because his "cons" don't exist, and he breaks the CP system and are just "ONE", TIRED of mk being used as a last ditch effort. if you pulled that "I can't beat this guy!" mk... and win, that really depresses people because all there hard work can be wasted just by 1 stupid broken, "haha" you can't kill me! character, Light my *** he isn't light i've ftilted some mk at 105% and he DI'd and survived.

MK mains just want him in just to keep a pure dominance over above the average opponents so they won't have to worry about them/also they want to keep their cash. As they travel tourney to tourney feeling like a bad *** thinking they are good.

 

[Teran]

Over centralization is the problem. I know I am repeating what many others have said, but when you are learning a character you have to immediately ask if it can compete with MK to even be tournament viable.

That's a moot point though, because really you should be asking if you can take on the top tiers. For the majority of mid low tiers, they're outclassed by basically the entirety of the top tier.

In fact, most unwinnable matchups aren't even against Meta Knight.
DK vs D3
Falco vs Ganondorf etc.

 

[PND]

Why is this debate still going on? Ally won APEX and Genesis with -~=Snake=~-.

I've seen the debates raging "But Ally is just better than everyone else!" Well then, get better. Get as good as Ally. If he can beat MKs, you can if you get good enough. Face it, in the current, top-level metagame MK is not unbeatable. Every game always has the BEST character, and that character is almost always the most used.

As for ease of use, playing a low to mid level MK is easy. Playing a high to top level MK is really difficult. MK is pretty much everyone's most practiced matchup, being the most common. If you're playing a competent opponent, provided their character doesn't get WTF ***** by MK, you shouldn't be winning if you just picked him up. Your opponenents WILL know how to fight MK, and your opponent WILL know how to fight MK's that are better than you. Ease of use should never factor into the decision, anyway. Kirby is one of the easiest characters to play, should we ban him, too? Anyone could pick up Kirby rather quickly, and he supposedly ***** Falco. Ease of use has no place in this debate.

As for the issue of breaking the CP system, yes, MK has no bad matchups and no bad stages. But he's rarely the worst matchup of any given character, and certain characters do better on certain stages than MK. He's the SAFEest choice, so what? With how integral you guys make the CP system seem, we might as well just play Bo1 matches, right? [/sarcasm] I mean, you guys make it seem like your CP is supposed to be an instant win or something and MK just ****s that strategy up.

As for planking, stalling is banned. Enforce this rule a bit more, it's not some arbitrary rule create just to deal with MK, no stalling has been around since Melee. Look at IC's Wobbling. The only MK only rule we have is no IDC, and even that falls into the realm of stalling. Air camping is harder to enforce, but you know who else can Air Camp? Wario. Ban Wario, too?

Yes, I realize this falls into the "get better" camp of anti-ban thinking, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S TRUE. You guys argue that anti-bans only point is "QQ get better", but then you guys turn around and make the point that Ally is only winning because he is miles better than everyone else. So get better. Get Ally good.

This community is a joke.

 

[Clai]

I honestly cannot believe that this argument is still going on. I have read all the arguments, and I do not believe for a second that MK is overcentralizing the metagame. I can't believe that people are complaining that "Metaknight has too many safe options," or that "because Metaknight doesn't have terrible matchups or bad stages, he breaks the counterpicking system." I feel the mentality that people show here is unbelievable. Seriously, people are actually saying that because you can stick with your character without worrying about another character destroying your strategy, suddenly that character is broken? Snake does that fine. Melee Fox does that fine. BOTH Sagat and Ryu in SFIV don't have to deal with that, hey, they're broken too! "Metaknight detracting from the metagame?" WTF!? Being the best character in the game detracts from the metagame? Might as well alert every other fighting game that ever existed that it takes too much effort to accept that one character is the best and instead we should remove it based on "overcentralizing the metagame."

High-level players who want to ban MK because they always lose to them place the problem on the character rather than accepting that a certain style of play defeats them (Some players can beat some Metaknights just fine and lose to other MKs. Some players generally do well against Metaknight. Some players don't. This applies to, I don't know, everything?). Low-level players who can't beat scrub MK tactics are simply bad at this game and shouldn't hold any weight in this argument. Since SFII Turbo Akuma was actually capable of shutting down EVERY character's strategy (correct me if I'm wrong here), this is the first time that we are seriously contemplating banning a character based on the fact that his core attributes are just a little too good compared to everyone elses (Although I admit that Metaknight's recovery is absolutely ********, his light weight, both horizontally and especially vertically, somewhat offsets this).

I agree with Mew2King in his post that was sigged by (I believe) lightxdream. I hate this community mentality.

 

[Galuuda]

the fact that this discussion is even being had makes this whole community look like its falling apart. The game has been out a year, a proper tier list is not even possible at this point and your talking bans. I would fall into the mid level range along with 99% of the community and i main falco like i have since melee. And I enjoy making strats to deal with MK who 2 people around here main. MK is nowhere near broken, he has no matchups that I would call 100-0 or 10-0, and this means he is beatable, and this is with him having a advanced metagame and other fighters having an underdeveloped one.

coming from playing sf for over a decade i can tell that this community has gotten out of touch, everyone needs to take a step back and realize how ******** this sounds, yes MK is a great character with only a few weaknesses. But he has weaknesses and people are more concerned with whining about them then exploiting them. This early in a games life tiers are highly irrelavant, even matchup charts are pointless. Look at that ness player who beat M2k, everyone here is under the impression that ness is a crap character, maybe the real problem is a community that doesnt have enough players who take on "low tier" characters as mains.

Everyone seems to follow tiers like sheep and its pretty sad. If there are players consitently wrecking MK then start asking them how they do it, and watching replays of them.

The inclusion of MK is going to eventually force other characters to develop a good metagame for him, maybe even make them look for new techniques which will only strengthen the game as a whole, so lets stop whining and start labbing.

Because SBR is having a vote on banning a character shows were falling apart? That made no sense at all...if anything it shows us doing something about the problem..therefore opposite of falling apart...

Yes brawl has been out for roughly a year and a half, but a year and a half is plenty of time to tell when a character is pretty broken or not.

The situation you said where a ness player beat M2k...yes a ness player beat m2k, lets see him do it consistently in tournament play....very...very doubtful, also at the time where lain beat m2k, lain was on the ball and playing well. I don't know if it was just me noticing this, but M2k was making a ton of mistakes, not being patient.

Point is..we know he's beatable, but of what consistency is he beatable? Metaknight has too much room for error, while the other characters have almost half the margin.

 

[The calm tyrant...]

Cmon spade. Anti-ban needs you!!

All of Europe's vote counts in my eyes!!

And it's only Fair that canada gets to vote without anyone saying anything to them.

Just saying.