Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Abbra Cadav3r]

WE KNOW HE'S BEATABLE.

Get some background info before you come in here with your BS. Your Scrub Central MK's are nothing like real MK's. I guarantee it.

ok someone is clearly butt hurt because they got beat and dont wanna take the time to actually put in some work. and why dont you come to chicago and play some MK's before you act like a prick and make blind and childish assumptions.

 

[momochuu]

Holy crap, I thought the gap in votes would close overnight but...it's even bigger now. @_@ Probably still isn't gonna get a 2/3 vote but still.

 

[Remzi]

I'm hoping it at least gets to 55.

SBR is extremely anti-ban overall from what I can tell.

 

[TLMSheikant]

LOL@ ppl that say mk isnt overcentralizing.

 

[½NIÇK½FBM]

Because SBR is smart. They have the right idea.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

I'm hoping it at least gets to 55.

SBR is extremely anti-ban overall from what I can tell.

yeah from what i know the SBR is extremely biased and the majority of them use mk so of course they are taking adv of there power to keep mk in, also taking adv of the 2/3 vote to slim the pro ban chances of getting rid of mk.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Because half the SBR are mk mains...

 

[popsofctown]

People keep representing loss of player base due to MK as a sudden thing that you can see attributed entirely to MK at a clear moment.

It's a gradual thing, actually, and it can probably never be measured.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

Seems like the anti-ban wins. From what I understand though, the vote isn't the final judgement. Can SBR still say, "Doesn't matter, let's ban?" It's not a likely situation, but...

Either way, I voted for no. Looks like the rest of the forum is intelligent as well.

 

[Flamingo]

This vote is ridiculous.

1. In the high tiers, MK really only ***** Rob and D3.
2. Play Snake.
3. Let me go make more accounts and press "yes MK should be banned" 70 more times..

 

[Abbra Cadav3r]

this community is epic fail. every other fighting game community is getting more flame fuel every day because of all the whiny kids in here who dont want to do work. its a vicious cycle, your all lazy and when you see a tier come out you flock to the best and prolong the advancement of one characters metagame.

epic fail.

 

[Kinzer]

This vote is ridiculous.

1. In the high tiers, MK really only ***** Rob and D3.
3. Let me go make more accounts and press "yes MK should be banned" 70 more times..

True.

Marth.

Get banned.

 

[momochuu]

Because half the SBR are mk mains...

No it's not. IIRC, they try to add as many reps from each character as they can. >_>

 

[Xyro77]

No it's not. IIRC, they try to add as many reps from each character as they can. >_>

i wish this were true.

 

[Luxor]

I voted anti-ban, but imo the only way to be sure about making the right decision is to test an MK-less metagame and compare it to the current one. If the MK-ban metagame is more competitive, balanced, or "fun" (although admittedly these are difficult to quantify) MK should be banned. I'm going to look into results in non-MK tourneys to see whether it really is more competitive.

 

[Jolteon]

LOL@ ppl that say mk isnt overcentralizing.

This might be hard to believe as a TL player from Puerto Rico... but yeah.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

This vote is ridiculous.

1. In the high tiers, MK really only ***** Rob and D3.
2. Play Snake.
3. Let me go make more accounts and press "yes MK should be banned" 70 more times..

MK doesn't even **** D3.

 

[dcubed]

There are definitely two pretty good arguments, but honestly why should you remove an entire character?
If you remove MK, where is the constant search for the next counter? Ally must feel pretty good, and same with Lain and his ICs, and many others who figure out a way.

The way I see it is like this: Why not main MK if you will go to tourneys? He gives you the best chance to win, and obviously that is the point going to tourneys. But, there are some who are interested in showing off their skills with other characters, and they get very high praise when they beat a good MK. Definitely shouldn't be banned.

 

[Remzi]

No it's not. IIRC, they try to add as many reps from each character as they can. >_>

only one marth rep

mk mains def get the most representation >.>

 

[Greward]

The main pro-ban argument is MK's stalling / planking options, which are not bannable. And MK is overcentralizing the game, all the metagame nowadays is what we can do on MK. Just a few examples. Sheik discovers an infinite to most of the cast, and on the title it says: INFINITE ON MK.
Yoshi discovers a CG to spike, and on the title says: CG TO SPIKE TO MK, even when mk is the hardest one to do this "combo". I'm not going to say more examples, but the game is involved on MK.
For the arguments that MK destroys the cp system, i disagree a little. I'm an olimar who has a 3-7 matchup to MK, then i can cp lylat cruise where i could have a 4-6. Yeah, u will not have a numeric advantage on him... but 4-6 is viable. And some characters has an avantage over MK on some stages (yoshi on CS? ICs on FD?) or at least an even matchup.
Anyways, probably MK should be banned before the Play to Win mentality starts to grow even more and people start to stall to win easily. Because then this game would be destroyed on competitive gaming and we all would start playing melee again (or Brawl- lol)
But i'm still sorry for people who has trained MK, because he is not a character u pick and win. This argument is totally scrubbish.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of people who only wants him banned because he/she mains rob and they sucks against MK or others who wants him allowed just because its their main and they like to plank to win.

 

[Johnny Citrus]

This vote is ridiculous.

1. In the high tiers, MK really only ***** Rob and D3.
2. Play Snake.
3. Let me go make more accounts and press "yes MK should be banned" 70 more times..

he ***** olimar, marth, GnW, among others

 

[C.box]

Gooooood Anakin goooood!
Now you are learning the power of the Dark Side!

The senate of Smash Bros will be reorganised into the first Galactic Empire new SBR!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJxh35aYqnc

And what a great leader he will be.

 

[Red Arremer]

he ***** olimar, marth, GnW, among others

Stop spreading lies.

Slight disadvantages are not ****.

The only characters in High and Mid Tier he arguably "*****" are R.O.B. and Peach. Everyone else is debatable.

Stuff like this is why I don't want to vote for Pro-Ban ever.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Why is this debate still going on? Ally won APEX and Genesis with -~=Snake=~-.

That doesn't mean that MK isn't broken.

I've seen the debates raging "But Ally is just better than everyone else!" Well then, get better. Get as good as Ally. If he can beat MKs, you can if you get good enough. Face it, in the current, top-level metagame MK is not unbeatable. Every game always has the BEST character, and that character is almost always the most used.

WE ****ING KNOW HE'S BEATABLE.

He wrecks the meta game single-handedly.

As for ease of use, playing a low to mid level MK is easy. Playing a high to top level MK is really difficult.

>_>

This goes for everyone.

MK is pretty much everyone's most practiced matchup, being the most common. If you're playing a competent opponent, provided their character doesn't get WTF ***** by MK, you shouldn't be winning if you just picked him up.

IT HAPPENS. With the best players nonetheless!

Your opponenents WILL know how to fight MK, and your opponent WILL know how to fight MK's that are better than you. Ease of use should never factor into the decision, anyway. Kirby is one of the easiest characters to play, should we ban him, too? Anyone could pick up Kirby rather quickly, and he supposedly ***** Falco. Ease of use has no place in this debate.

Are you seriously this stupid? IT'S NOT JUST EASE OF USE!

It's ease of use added to the fact that he's the best character in the game! Can't you make that connection? If someone with no experience with MK can still win with him, something's up.

As for the issue of breaking the CP system, yes, MK has no bad matchups and no bad stages. But he's rarely the worst matchup of any given character, and certain characters do better on certain stages than MK.

Yes, but he can ban said stages. And he'll win on the neutral, even if the opponent wins on their CP, he wins on his CP. He wrecks the system.

He's the SAFEest choice, so what? With how integral you guys make the CP system seem, we might as well just play Bo1 matches, right? [/sarcasm] I mean, you guys make it seem like your CP is supposed to be an instant win or something and MK just ****s that strategy up.

The CP system is integral, how can you fail to see this? If a character has no counter, how is someone going to beat him, unless one PLAYER is a good deal better than another PLAYER. But this is talking about the top level of play, if two players are on the same level.

As for planking, stalling is banned. Enforce this rule a bit more, it's not some arbitrary rule create just to deal with MK, no stalling has been around since Melee.

How do you enforce it? Tell me.

Look at IC's Wobbling. The only MK only rule we have is no IDC, and even that falls into the realm of stalling. Air camping is harder to enforce, but you know who else can Air Camp? Wario. Ban Wario, too?

MK is a better character than Wario to begin with, and his 5 or 6 jumps and disjointed aerial hitboxes make it a lot harder to get around his air camping.

Yes, I realize this falls into the "get better" camp of anti-ban thinking, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S TRUE. You guys argue that anti-bans only point is "QQ get better", but then you guys turn around and make the point that Ally is only winning because he is miles better than everyone else. So get better. Get Ally good.

Why don't you show us how to get good like Ally? IT'S NOT THAT ****ING SIMPLE. Use your brain.

This community is a joke.

Says the voice of ****ing God, amirite?

Stop spreading lies.

Slight disadvantages are not ****.

The only characters in High and Mid Tier he arguably "*****" are R.O.B. and Peach.

Spadefox, MK makes Marth inviable to win a big tournament.

 

[Eggm]

I hope that all the melee players who want to see m2k back in top form vote to ban him like I did. Cause this might make m2k quit then he will be concentrating fully on melee hopefully.

 

[DUCKAtl]

this community is epic fail. every other fighting game community is getting more flame fuel every day because of all the whiny kids in here who dont want to do work. its a vicious cycle, your all lazy and when you see a tier come out you flock to the best and prolong the advancement of one characters metagame.

epic fail.

i would shut the **** up if i was you, these arent kids, these are serious experienced players, but yes i do agree, just becasue MK advances easier than other characters doesnt mean ban him, wait for everyone to catch up, the game just game out 1 year, 4 months, and 13 days ago. This is a totally different game than melee, it's gonna take a couple years to really catch on and evolve to a pure competitive game

 

[Kinzer]

There are definitely two pretty good arguments, but honestly why should you remove an entire character?
If you remove MK, where is the constant search for the next counter? Ally must feel pretty good, and same with Lain and his ICs, and many others who figure out a way.

The way I see it is like this: Why not main MK if you will go to tourneys? He gives you the best chance to win, and obviously that is the point going to tourneys. But, there are some who are interested in showing off their skills with other characters, and they get very high praise when they beat a good MK. Definitely shouldn't be banned.

Overcentralization can be a reason to ban something.

MK would have to be outright banned if we didn't get rid of his IDC, because it literally has no counter to it other than "don't lose the lead."

That's not the case though, so we're good.

I guess some people just don't realize this though/ :/

I hope that all the melee players who want to see m2k back in top form vote to ban him like I did. Cause this might make m2k quit then he will be concentrating fully on melee hopefully.

Mango ain't enough for you?

 

[adumbrodeus]

If other fighting game communities don't respect us because of our decisions, SSBB will not be sponsored in their tournaments. Like, why MLG hasn't picked up Brawl.
MK does have good core attributes, however, certain character attributes outshine his... like... there are faster characters than MK, there are more stronger characters than MK, there are more weighter characters than MK, there are more campier characters than MK, there are better comboing characters than MK, there are characters that have more disjointed hitbox ranges than MK.
The only 2 aspects MK is the best in, is his overall speed of his attacks, and his top notch recovery. So, as you can see other characters out shine MK in alot of aspects.

They'll never respect us, it's a combination of the fact that our game is different, their perceptions of our community, and our community's issues. Banning MK or not won't change that.


Reagardless, I'm not arguing that MK is ban-worthy, but he IS extremely powerful in the metagame. You also forgot one thing, safest options.

So then he shouldn't have voted at all.
If he really felt that, he wouldn't even vote here, because even if this vote "doesn't count much", it still counts.

This is a childish thing, because he just stated that all this was to stop Xyro "waving his ****" or whatever.

That's not a valid reason, and your argument does not apply here.

You're right, he shouldn't have.

However, what he did was a great deal more mature then tipping the scales in the SBR due to personal feelings.


Overall, it was a positive choice, and would only have been MORE positive if he chose not to vote here.

As said - from what I've gathered from him, he is Neutral with a slight tendency to Pro-Ban.

The guy who said "mk is jesus"? We're all doomed, it's a sign of the apocolypse.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

No it's not. IIRC, they try to add as many reps from each character as they can. >_>

Really? LOL I wish.

Maybe not all of them main MK, but a LARGE percent use him as a backup and have pulled him out in tourney.

 

[Red Arremer]

Spadefox, MK makes Marth inviable to win a big tournament.

That's why NEO and MikeHaze are pretty much constantly placing high on the tournaments they attend, additionally to the fact they pretty much always beat good and top Meta Knights on their way, right?

Oh wait, no. They don't count, right. Sorry. It's Meta Knight. He ***** everyone.

 

[DUCKAtl]

That doesn't mean that MK isn't broken.



WE ****ING KNOW HE'S BEATABLE.

He wrecks the meta game single-handedly.



>_>

This goes for everyone.



IT HAPPENS. With the best players nonetheless!



Are you seriously this stupid? IT'S NOT JUST EASE OF USE!

It's ease of use added to the fact that he's the best character in the game! Can't you make that connection? If someone with no experience with MK can still win with him, something's up.



Yes, but he can ban said stages. And he'll win on the neutral, even if the opponent wins on their CP, he wins on his CP. He wrecks the system.



The CP system is integral, how can you fail to see this? If a character has no counter, how is someone going to beat him, unless one PLAYER is a good deal better than another PLAYER. But this is talking about the top level of play, if two players are on the same level.



How do you enforce it? Tell me.



MK is a better character than Wario to begin with, and his 5 or 6 jumps and disjointed aerial hitboxes make it a lot harder to get around his air camping.



Why don't you show us how to get good like Ally? IT'S NOT THAT ****ING SIMPLE. Use your brain.



Says the voice of ****ing God, amirite?



Spadefox, MK makes Marth inviable to win a big tournament.

ill tell you how to enforce them, put a gun to their head

 

[o-Serin-o]

I'm voting for the lulz. I just wanna see who pro's will pick up if MK is discarded. And how the tier list will alter. Regardless, this arguement is pointless. You know if you want him banned or not. Just making statements such as "Both sides are legit" is just a semi-valid excuse not be hated by others. If you wanna know who wants to get rid of MK, just ask this simple question:

"When Brawl first came out, did you really see MK as the perfect character?"

If your answer is yes: You guys are banning him.

If your is no: You might as well start filling this whole thread up with "OMG YOU NOOBS" right now.

 

[Steel]

That's why NEO and MikeHaze are pretty much constantly placing high on the tournaments they attend, additionally to the fact they pretty much always beat good and top Meta Knights on their way, right?

Oh wait, no. They don't count, right. Sorry. It's Meta Knight. He ***** everyone.

Please, it's easy to look at the character's tools and realize Marth has nothing going for him in the match.

NEO and Haze are players on a different caliber than other Marths. That, and 99% of meta knights do the match completely wrong. They admit that MK outclasses Marth, they just outplay the MK throughout the entire set.

 

[Kinzer]

I'm voting for the lulz. I just wanna see who pro's will pick up if MK is discarded.

You're looking at Snake.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

That's why NEO and MikeHaze are pretty much constantly placing high on the tournaments they attend, additionally to the fact they pretty much always beat good and top Meta Knights on their way, right?

Oh wait, no. They don't count, right. Sorry. It's Meta Knight. He ***** everyone.

Who's the best MK that either of these players have beaten in a National tournament?

EDIT: I said win tournaments. Yes, blah blah I know they've beaten MK's, but MK's are holding him back from WINNING these national tournaments.

 

[Red Arremer]

NEO and Haze are players on a different caliber. That, and 99% of meta knights do the match completely wrong. They admit that MK outclasses Marth, they just outplay the MK throughout the entire set.

Well if they are able to outplay Meta Knights like Tyrant or DSF and are able to play Marth on a level that makes them constantly place, why does this still mean that Meta Knight ***** Marth?
That's just not true.

I never said Marth has no disadvantage, I just said that Marth isn't being destroyed, and that his two best players were able to beat some of the best Meta Knight players. It can't be that Marth has absolutely no chance to win if he DOES in fact win.

 

[DUCKAtl]

but that 1% works their ***** off trying to find non-cheap ways to win in order to prevent the banning of him.

 

[o-Serin-o]

You're looking at Snake.

More than likely your wrong. Snake actually has bad matchups. And IMHO, Wario is better than Snake. If we're going by tier list standards, go look forward to more Diddy's Falco's Wario, and Marths.

 

[Galuuda]

I'm voting for the lulz. I just wanna see who pro's will pick up if MK is discarded. And how the tier list will alter. Regardless, this arguement is pointless. You know if you want him banned or not. Just making statements such as "Both sides are legit" is just a semi-valid excuse not be hated by others. If you wanna know who wants to get rid of MK, just ask this simple question:

"When Brawl first came out, did you really see MK as the perfect character?"

If your answer is yes: You guys are banning him.

If your is no: You might as well start filling this whole thread up with "OMG YOU NOOBS" right now.

Intelligent post? Wtf is this?

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

I hope that all the melee players who want to see m2k back in top form vote to ban him like I did. Cause this might make m2k quit then he will be concentrating fully on melee hopefully.

First off don't be an asshat because jason enjoys the game and your taking that from him. 2nd off your not welcome in anything brawl related so go back having gay orgies with other melee ***s in a sports car.

2nd off MK doesn't **** the whole cast and has close/even matchs up with high/top tiers. IC's, Snake, Diddy, Olimar, Falco, and Wario go even or beat him on some stages. If worse comes to worse MK shouldn't be allowed to ban any stages so some characters can beat him on certain stages, so thus making him not bannable in anyones eyes.