Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Overclassed]

Faith in the SBR is worthless.

Better to have faith in ourselves.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Despite the fact it is kind of funny we actually do have a say in this community and some of us play both games.
I'm more casual towards Brawl but my opinion can still count.

I'm not talking about the people that play both games.

The Melee and Brawl communities are not entirely different and either can influence the other. I've read the arguments plenty of times in various threads including this one, but still I'm anti-ban.

Great, that's your opinion.

Why? Its not really the same as the anti-ban argument as much as I just think it's really ****ing stupid we have to go around banning characters to help us win. I know the advantages MetaKnight has but the pro-ban community is basically giving up when it comes to that and it's just dumb.

Isn't that why characters in other games were banned? MK wrecks the balance of the game. That's why other characters were banned, in other games. So yes, he is ban-able.

It's like sitting down to play somebody better than you in tournament and going "O LOL I CANT WIN I FORFEIT"

Thats my opinion, if you want to attempt to sway it go ahead but I'm not banning MetaKnight at my tournaments.

Great.

See, if someone plays Brawl too, it's all fine and dandy, but for a Melee only player to vote on this is utterly ridiculous, as it in NO WAY affects them at all.

 

[pastaboy]

didn't ally/m2k/tyrant split? doesn't matter anyway, it had more to do with other factors(both players just waking up and stress etc, praxis says he thinks m2k had a minor panic attack...). something to keep in mind with grand finals at extremely large tournaments like that is that they will frequently be very late, neither player is going to be at their best.

i dont think 1 thing u said there was true

 

[Steel]

I posted this elsewhere but I'll post my thoughts here too:

People are putting too much emphasis on "he's not unbeatable" imo.

A character doesn't have to be unbeatable to be banworthy. They just have to go beyond the limits of the game.

His cape **** definitely does. But since SWF bans individual techniques instead of the whole character, we just have the "neutered" meta knight. 100% Meta Knight, used to his full character design, would have a 100% safe option to escape any bad scenario and would have no place in tournament play.

MK's options are clearly superior to every character. You don't even need to think or guess, a lot of the time you can just throw out a poke and react to whatever your opponent does, all the while being stupidly safe. His character design has 0 flaws. Nothing to exploit.

But then the question comes down to, "Do his tools, bar his IDC, go beyond the limits of the game?" But then it's, "Well, what exactly IS the limit? This isn't a traditional fighter that has built in competitive rules." Honestly, I'm still on the fence.

Either way, he won't be getting banned. Even if SBR "officially" does it (which prolly won't happen, honestly), my region won't ban him because it's ultimately up to the TO's.

 

[Xyro77]

LOL.
Really helping to keep community faith there! :D

well, when you let in 4 anit-ban members right before a vote

AND

The 3 leaders of the sbr are anti ban

AND

you are silenced(infracted) for pointing out "odd" things that seem to favor the antiban



you realize why i do not and WILL not obey the results thier poll ends up producing. SBR is a great place but on THIS issue, its 100% rigged.

 

[hinkage]

the cp system does not work.

meta has NO counters(by char or stage). a BEST its even, hes NEVER at a disadvantage.
and ive seen/heard of several occasions where a persons main lost but he switched to meta and won the set.


and as for your last moronic comment. you cp ddd. by stage and/or character(pika/falco/ics). COMMON SENSE.

Then for MK you can switch to MK. See?

Plus he used to have disadvantages but they became advantages because his metagame increased faster than say, Snake's. DK too. If more people advanced their metagames instead of just all switching to MK we'd be fine. But then again, people ALWAYS go to the higher tiers first, so banning him won't accomplish much except make half the community leave.

 

[Remzi]

The major flaw with the SBR for me, is the lack of equal character representation.

It should be equal across the board, or at least correspondent with tournament character representation.

Marth has one representativce, Bardull. How is that fair when MK has at least 20?

 

[iRJi]

Also, as an explanation:
The first 3 polls were not to decide whether Meta Knight should be banned directly, they were more meant to see what the community thinks, where they stand. A 5% majority doesn't make it a clear "Yes, we want him banned", because 5% is extremely little.
If the community really wanted Meta Knight to be definitely banned, the majority wouldn't be 5% only. Can't you grasp the idea that the Pro-Ban side is pretty much the same size as the Anti-Ban side, and that saying 5% majority being a clear victory for the Pro-Ban side in a vote is wrong?

Well, for the most part I agree with this. The last line however, is somewhat incorrect. Just to take a real life election as an example, If 2 candidates were running to be president, and the decision was close, that 5% does matter. If this was an actual voting to see if MK should be banned, that 5% means actually everything in determining what might happen. 2 candidates in an election can be close, but which ever side has more is going to be crowned the victor.

Just to state where I stand on MK:

I am Pro-Ban. I have been for a while.

 

[OFY]

****.
Brawl is so ****ing ******** you have to start banning a character so you don't lose.
Quit *****ing or start playing Melee, ****.

If the community decides to ban Meta Knight I refuse to do so at all future Mass Madness tournaments.

Really?

Most people feel that banning a character from competitive tournaments is a horrible thing? Just because it's unprecedented in smash history?

Other fighting communities did it in the past, so why can't we?

Metaknight clearly has an advantage over the whole cast in this game, has no bad matchups, 4 methods of recovery, transcending priority, destroys the counterpick system, etc.

 

[Red Arremer]

well, when you let in 4 anit-ban members right before a vote

I'm not an Anti-Ban, stop accusing me of something I'm not, you ****. Additionally, Praxis, the guy who LEAD THE PROBAN ARGUMENT was let in right before that vote, too.

The 3 leaders of the sbr are anti ban

AlphaZealot is Proban, you nut.

you are silenced(infracted) for pointing out "odd" things that seem to favor the antiban

You were infracted because you were being an idiot and trolled every day about how everything is a conspiracy.

 

[pwiito]

Faith in the SBR is worthless.

Better to have faith in ourselves.

Half the ppl in SBR probably main mk.... wtf, they wouldn't want mk banned, they have selfish pruposes and want to get more money out of the game

 

[Xyro77]

Then for MK you can switch to MK. See?

Plus he used to have disadvantages but they became advantages because his metagame increased faster than say, Snake's. DK too. If more people advanced their metagames instead of just all switching to MK we'd be fine. But then again, people ALWAYS go to the higher tiers first, so banning him won't accomplish much except make half the community leave.

switch to metaknight? not only does that prove what the proban is saying but it also proves that the future of this game may be meta dittos.......*votes again for proban*

Yea people keep throwing out that "metas game is far more advanced than the rest of the cast." Look, thats just simply not true. HES BUILT to be better. Look at the combos,gimps, frame data, stage advantages. He is clearly better than the rest by a LARGE amount that can NEVER be caught up with by ANY other character.

 

[TwentyTwo]

If it could be shown to me that the top MK players couldn't win with other characters, I might change my opinion. But m2k ***** with DDD back before changing to mk, and i'm pretty sure dojo placed well at an mk banned tourney with characters he hasn't put nearly as much time in to I'm guessing.

And both sides arguements were hard to agree with seeing as how they both defined broken differently enough to warrant mk as broken or not broken.

Anti-ban.

 

[Hobobloke]

Guys the SBR aren't some sort of tyrannical leaders remember they have given us some power in the form of this polll, while its only small it's better than nothing, ease up on them.

 

[C!Z]

Don't be that community, MK should not be banned.

 

[Kinzer]

I posted this elsewhere but I'll post my thoughts here too:

People are putting too much emphasis on "he's not unbeatable" imo.

A character doesn't have to be unbeatable to be banworthy. They just have to go beyond the limits of the game.

His cape **** definitely does. But since SWF bans individual techniques instead of the whole character, we just have the "neutered" meta knight. 100% Meta Knight, used to his full character design, would have a 100% safe option to escape any bad scenario and would have no place in tournament play.

MK's options are clearly superior to every character. You don't even need to think or guess, a lot of the time you can just throw out a poke and react to whatever your opponent does, all the while being stupidly safe. His character design has 0 flaws. Nothing to exploit.

But then the question comes down to, "Do his tools, bar his IDC, go beyond the limits of the game?" But then it's, "Well, what exactly IS the limit? This isn't a traditional fighter that has built in competitive rules." Honestly, I'm still on the fence.

Either way, he won't be getting banned. Even if SBR "officially" does it (which prolly won't happen, honestly), my region won't ban him because it's ultimately up to the TO's.

So thank you for informing us that we ban individual techniques to preserve the integrity of the character and the competitive community in order to not have to ban him/her/it as a whole?

Unless I read your post wrong (which I can sadly foresee being scolded for this even if I was right), did you just come up with that to inform anybody who wasn't already aware why we really ban things?

 

[Master Raven]

Half the ppl in SBR probably main mk.... wtf, they wouldn't want mk banned, they have selfish pruposes and want to get more money out of the game

Uh you voted Yes for the sole reason of making it easier for you. That's not much less selfish than your opinion on the SBR MKs voting no.

And AlphaZealot is proban? wut

 

[Overclassed]

You know, we really should have a smash senate.

2 people from every character board would be, what, 74?

That in conjunction with the SBR might be a little less suspicious.

 

[BSP]

ok. I've been reading these arguements for a while. IF he got banned, would it be temporary or permanent?

That's not a bad idea^^^

 

[Xyro77]

I'm not an Anti-Ban, stop accusing me of something I'm not, you ****. Additionally, Praxis, the guy who LEAD THE PROBAN ARGUMENT was let in right before that vote, too.



AlphaZealot is Proban, you nut.



You were infracted because you were being an idiot and trolled every day about how everything is a conspiracy.

spade, did i mention names? no.
AZ is antiban. if hes proban, the 2nd coming of christ is here already
and i did not troll and or start conspiracy stuff. i pointed out "odd" little things about you anti ban scum and i was punished for it. Its weirs how that works, you find small little things and bring it up then.....BOOOM, infracted.

 

[Red Arremer]

And AlphaZealot is proban? wut

Neutral with tendency to Pro-Ban, from what I've read.

spade, did i mention names? no.
AZ is antiban. if hes proban, the 2nd coming of christ is here already
and i did not troll and or start conspiracy stuff. i pointed out "odd" little things about you anti ban scum and i was punished for it. Its weirs how that works, you find small little things and bring it up then.....BOOOM, infracted.

No, but there weren't many other choices left, were there? Additionally, the Europeans didn't friggin vote anyway and most likely won't, except for the one Pro-Ban European. How is that a conspiracy, tell me?

You DID troll and you DID start conspiracy crap. There are no "odd" little things. Additionally, Anti-Ban members have been equally punished. If you wouldn't have done that conspiracy trolling, you wouldn't have been infracted. There is nothing else to add to that.

 

[Iradara]

MY offline friends are unconvinced Meta Knight is broken. Because they main him. Of course, the Meta Knight mainers say no and high-low-tier mainers (like myself) will say yes. It's a matter of opinion for them, despite the fact that most people that know what a debate is show evidence.

 

[Steel]

So thank you for informing us that we ban individual techniques to preserve the integrity of the character and the competitive community in order to not have to ban him/her/it as a whole?

Unless I read your post wrong (which I can sadly foresee being scolded by this even if I was right), did you just come up with that to inform anybody who wasn't already aware why we really ban things?

Uh >_>

I posted my thoughts on if he passed the barrier of "beyond the limits of the game" which is what gets characters banned.

 

[Xyro77]

ok. I've been reading these arguements for a while. IF he got banned, would it be temporary or permanent?

it really depends. if meta got BANNED, he would be revoted on in 6-12 months. if hes NOT BANNED, its safe to say the sbr will not let us vote again.

 

[pwiito]

Uh you voted Yes for the sole reason of making it easier for you. That's not much less selfish than your opinion on the SBR MKs voting no.

And AlphaZealot is proban? wut

U only said that cause u main mk lol.....

 

[blakinola]

I remember playing at COT4 with DK and beating up on people like NikoK (good peach), Ryko (best ike I've ever played), and I took a game off Meep (who mains god**** IC's)

I would have placed higher in pools and gone on even higher if I didn't go up against meta-knight. B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B was all I experienced. I outplayed the **** out of him but still got punished. I lost first match, we went to yoshi's, I won, then he just auto-winned with MK. It still irks me to this day.

/endrant

As for people talking about the metagame, I honestly think it's pretty much come to a halt, because the game is sooo limited in technical ability. No matter what gets discovered, it's "camp until punish". As a DK player, the only matchups I have a problem with is D3/Olimar. Character representation sucks in tournaments. I feel it takes less skill overall to be better with metaknight, but that's Sakurai's fault. I guess this is what happens when you try to make a 4P game balanced for 1v1, it just fails.

 

[Wrath`]

MK is like Ronnie form Big Brother 11, everyone found out he was the rat, but he is still hanging in there due to Jesse (SBR) <--- Just a joke.



Why can't the community try a temp ban, for a couple of months, see what happens?

 

[Teran]

you anti ban scum

Such strong words over an issue so trivial.

Still, I'd like you to repeat that to everyone in this screencap.

Oh and this pic proves Spadefox is a liar though Xyro, he is antiban cause he voted so

 

[Master Raven]

U only said that cause u main mk lol.....

I won't even bother.

 

[Wisp]

...I'm pretty sure MK mainers are changing their little main picture to someone other than MK before posting in this thread. I mean, I've seen surprisingly few MK pictures in this thread, especially concerning what the thread is about.


I don't blame them, per se, it's a good idea. If you post here with that little picture of MK's face under your name, people are gonna see it and use it as an excuse for your anti-ban argument.



So yeah. Clever.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Just wanted to point this out:

Pro ban:
Metaknight holds roughly 22% of ALL tournament places, the most of any characters. 22/100 doesn't seem like much, but this is a single character taking nearly 1/4th of ALL tournament PLACEMENTS... out of 36 characters.

Anti ban:
Addressing over-centralization, of the 570 observations from the chart of tournament placements above, only 123 of them are Metaknight. This means that roughly 22% of tournament placements are Metaknight, even at top level play where Metaknight is the most threatening. The game cannot revolve around beating a character that takes about 1/5th of the highest tournaments placements

It's the same players that win with MK, not MK himself. Just counting M2K points alone gives MK a high score. The character ranking charts are flawed because of that. If you had some n00b winning tournaments with MK, then, yes he should be banned. But these players that rank high in tournaments are not n00bs, they are very skilled, and they play very cheaply, cause other players like to play the cheapest especially against MK players, so the MK player has to play cheap back.

I heard people are disrespecting the SSBB community a lot more now, like from SRK. And the people from EVO that played other games besides brawl, are saying they don't see anything ban worthy for MK, they are accustomed to cheap infinites from their own top tier characters in their game, like Marvel vs Capcom and others. And MK does not have any infinites, like DDD, IC, and Pikachu does.
VOTE NO!

 

[hinkage]

switch to metaknight? not only does that prove what the proban is saying but it also proves that the future of this game may be meta dittos.......*votes again for proban*

Yea people keep throwing out that "metas game is far more advanced than the rest of the cast." Look, thats just simply not true. HES BUILT to be better. Look at the combos,gimps, frame data, stage advantages. He is clearly better than the rest by a LARGE amount that can NEVER be caught up with by ANY other character.

He IS built to be better, but it wouldn't be so drastic if everyone started advancing their own metagames. Like Marth, he is also an example of being good JUST because of his moveset, since he is still very good from Melee. And yes it CAN be caught up. You act like he has a 100-0 on everyone. Even though his worst matchup is 50-50, it's obvious that it must be possible to catch up with him you dolt.

 

[Xyro77]

Such strong words over an issue so trivial.

Still, I'd like you to repeat that to everyone in this screencap.

Oh and this pic proves Spadefox is a liar though Xyro, he is antiban cause he voted so

yea i know he is. the 4 or 5 euros they let in recently are all antiban(maybe gaki isnt).

 

[Remzi]

Such strong words over an issue so trivial.

I wouldn't consider it a trivial topic to anyone who takes this game seriously.

Oh and this pic proves Spadefox is a liar though Xyro, he is antiban cause he voted so

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

 

[Red Arremer]

...I'm pretty sure MK mainers are changing their little main picture to someone other than MK before posting in this thread. I mean, I've seen surprisingly few MK pictures in this thread, especially concerning what the thread is about.


I don't blame them, per se, it's a good idea. If you post here with that little picture of MK's face under your name, people are gonna see it and use it as an excuse for your anti-ban argument.



So yeah. Clever.

lol, I wouldn't even count the pictures for granted. Some people have the character there for a joke, some people play this character for fun but not in tournaments, some people play more than this character. And some people actually want to show thier Melee character and just have the Brawl icon there.

So using the icon down there as indication as to whom the person plays is not really a good idea.

Oh and this pic proves Spadefox is a liar though Xyro, he is antiban cause he voted so

I voted Anti-Ban in this poll because my vote here does not have as much weight as in the SBR. That is the only reason why I did so. I personally feel he doesn't need to be banned, so I voted it here instead of the SBR, where my personal feeling and thoughts would be actually a bit out of place. I'm still neutral, and only have a small tendency to anti-ban, especially because of people like Xyro being on the pro-ban side, and a few "arguments" this side uses in which absolutely does NOT represent what I would say.

 

[Bwett]

Oh yeah Yoshi beating a top tier? Freakin Bwett placed like 2nd out've like 60 ppl at a tourney with MK banned. Thats MK, not top tiers. Oh and you know who placed first? Zeton (fox)

MK wasn't banned at that tournament. Clel got 3rd using MK/Marth and Affinity got 4th using MK/DDD

 

[Overclassed]

You know, we really should have a smash senate.

2 people from every character board would be, what, 74?

That in conjunction with the SBR might be a little less suspicious.

ok. I've been reading these arguements for a while. IF he got banned, would it be temporary or permanent?

That's not a bad idea^^^

You and I are the only ones who agree :]

 

[Teran]

yea i know he is. the 4 or 5 euros they let in recently are all antiban(maybe gaki isnt).

Gaki is proban iirc. Still, the vast majority of Europe is antiban, so I'm not sure that it's fair to say they were let in to help the antiban cause.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Busting bull**** is my specialty.

 

[buenob]

You're completely in the wrong. I have a hunch that Peach, R.O.B. and Marth players are upset that their high tier characters have a bad matchup with the best charactr in the game and are too stubborn to pick a secondary.

I made the question to figure out just how much effort those players have put into beating MK.

So see, I didn't voice any assumption, but you made one.

yeah, you did... the entire ROB community isn't griping there's a lot of us who are fine without the ban, and I am incredibly against it... I actually find any planking fairly easy to deal with, and MK in general to be a nuisance, but entirely beatable... segue into wall of text...

for the pro-bans arguments to be valid, they provide two very credible criteria on which they base their opinion... but what exactly are those criteria compared to? metaknight as a whole... this seems logical, but at the same time is completely missing out on the atomized analysis, of which most of the following points rely on...

first i'd like to continue along the lines of the essay, and consider metaknight as a whole... is he as a combination of all his options so alien to the rest of the game that he is detrimental to the quality of competitive brawl? I really don't think so...

With MK removed, the game isn’t about defeating one matchup so much as it is about winning a massive load of matchups.
...
mind games, spacing, tech skill. We just WANT to play a game where these qualities are the be all end all to test

one could easily argue that since MK is the best 'jack of all trades' but is not the "best" at any one thing, he is bannable... but you could also say that it is a test to see who can keep the flow of the match prefferable to their character choice, keeping the match focused on your relative strengths, and the ability to punish attempts of changing that... without metaknight, mind games, spacing, and tech skill will be reduced, because the inherent character matchups will mean it is easier to control the flow of the matches, and in I truly think this will lead to less overall character diversity...

and see? it's impossible to consider MK as a whole without looking at him as a sum of his parts... It's impossible (as both myself and the pro-ban essay demonstrate)

lets start with his so called "best" recovery... I completely refute this claim... while he definitely has great options, very few of them are practical....
1-> cape to the ledge -- WOW! he got from near the ledge to the ledge safely... any character can do this with proper mixups... any character can attack while going for the ledge and then use an alternate recovery afterwards... this is a mindgame approach which is almost universal... characters without it are considered bad, and characters with are considered normal, not broken

2-> side-b -- this one is actually a solid option, and actually a contender, but with the startup lag, in a situation where only side-b will work, it's easy to steal the ledge from MK... and if they abuse the lingering hitboxes, well, you could have just as easily charged up a strong disjoint/high priority attack to hit the ledge... it's mindgames, it's easy to see mindgames, it's mindgames where if MK wins, he grabs the edge, if he loses, he will take damage/lose a stock... don't get me wrong, it's a very solid and hard to deal with option, but it's deal-able

3-> tornado -- by now we've all been playing MK's a lot, and are getting better at punishing this move... 2008's MK was a lot of spamming b moves... 2009's has evolved into abusing the disjoint aerial approaches, making people forget about the ground options, which are also solid.... if an MK starts a tornado from across the level, chances are he's going to get hit out of it (if he gets close enough)... this goes for a tornado from off the edge... he can't grab the ledge, he's gotta get past you... hit him... not to mention people standardly angling their shield now, to avoid the poke...

4-> his jumps/glide -- absolutely why he should be considered to have a fantastic approach... not much to say here other than these just keep his other options open...

5 -> shuttle-loops -- dayum... good option, but if used high off the level, it is easy to approach him and force him to die or take damage, when used low, there is the risk of getting ledged, and should he be able to make it all the way under the level, if the loop is spaced properly, it will take enough time to get to the other side that the person ledging will be able to cross the map and still apply pressure

what I'm trying to say is that there is a way to deal with all of his options... the difference between a skilled player and not is knowing where the critical points in his approach are, where he's exhausted his multiple options and has to commit, and it's knowing when/where these are and engaging him there which is the key to successfully negating his options... it's also knowing that if he's high, chances are he'll make it back to the stage safely (same with most characters though), and not trying to over-extend yourself... play the game you know you can stand a chance with, I wouldn't start jumping out at a MK when he still has a tonne of options... the fact that he has all of these options rolled into one, is not too foreign, because there still exist critical points where he has to commit...

another huge factor is, passing under the stage//around hyrule is a useless measure for recovery... how many options does MK have for recovering from near the bottom of the stage... some characters would definitely have no options, but characters like snake and rob will have more and better options than mk -> all together it is not foreign to brawl to have multiple options available for recovering...

on the note of "safe" options... your definition of "safe" is terrible... lets say mk uses one of his safe options, it must lead into another scenario, since the match doesn't stop then... how safe is that next one? it's all mindgames... if a MK abuses "safe" options, then just patiently wait until he has exhausted them all, and the situation resets, and then space so he has no safe approaches... from a neutral position, mk has NO universally save approaches against all characters... infact, every safe scenario is surrounded by completely unsafe ones, which can be abused... the fact that a "safe" scenario is just around the corner is definitely an advantage for MK, but if he becomes predictable, a good player will capitalize on it regardless... you pointed out one example of how snake can completely out-zone wario once he's in a bad position, and then also pointed out how wario can't get out of a bad position vs. mk... to me, this suggests a weakness in wario's playstyle, not a positive in MK... snake is an oddity with his stage control, it's one of the reasons why he's a beast, it's also one of the reasons why Ally ledges MK's all the time... the only "safe" option for them is to back off and try again, and since ally is covering 7/10 of the options, and ALL of the options which don't reset the situation, eventually he will hit (and kill) the MK... other characters can do this, just not as well as snake... having safe options is not foreign to brawl, and is present in all characters

mk breaks the cp system -> whatever... if I can beat MK, and that's all they have, I beat them... this isn't really an important point, brawl is _not_ a game about counterpicking, it's a game about your skill vs. the opponents, if you're not skilled enough to know the matchup and play smartly, then you can definitely change characters to try to change the matchup into something you know better... inherently, brawl must include the option to counter-pick, but the game does _not_ revolve around counter-picking characters

his impact on mid-level play is strong, but it's also kind of moot... at the mid level of play, if you're not dedicated to the game, you're going to have some kind of a soft ban on MK with your friends, and if you're dedicated enough to get better, you will learn to beat MK... the other option is some want to be better and play as mk, and the other won't and they will drop the game... to be honest, I have friends like that, but I play rob, not MK, and I still make them want to quit playing... ie. not just a property of MK

finally, that match of plank vs. dapuffster, i really don't see it as a cause for a ban... with ~2 minutes left in play, there is a 3% difference... diddy fails to DI the first kill, and a lot of %'s were racked up by him attempting to approach on the "rock" transformation... give him more experience against this type of play, and if plank didn't actually start attacking, he could easily have lost... -> the style of play does not inherently win -> especially against all characters -> not worth banning...

and every game (even melee) has matchups where at the high level of play it is relatively un-winnable... so please, don't go saying "o yeah but gdorf/dk/some-other-char-with-no-projectiles can't deal with it"...

i dunno, after all this, I just truly believe that people just don't understand MK as a character, and aren't even trying to look for critical points, aren't trying to space to beat over 50% of his options (because if less than half his options work, he's easy to read) and are frustrated because better players than them are picking up a character that is essentially hard to beat, and don't want to get better at the game...

/wall of text

 

[Xyro77]

He IS built to be better, but it wouldn't be so drastic if everyone started advancing their own metagames. Like Marth, he is also an example of being good JUST because of his moveset, since he is still very good from Melee. And yes it CAN be caught up. You act like he has a 100-0 on everyone. Even though his worst matchup is 50-50, it's obvious that it must be possible to catch up with him you dolt.

im here to tell you, the john of "metas game is just more advanced than the rest" is exactly that,a john used by the antiban side to make the rest of us look dumb.

its 100% false. please dont drink the kool-aid