Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Melomaniacal]

We should ban Sheik because she invalidates Fox.
Same for Pikachu.

 

[Red Arremer]

I wanna see what good MK mains are going to do and see if they still ****. :O

Part of them definitely will quit the game.
The other part that stays will probably do poorly in the first few months, since they have to relearn new characters and put more emphasis into them.

 

[Azuzu]

I don't get why you guys think these lower tiers won't benefit greatly from banning metaknight. You all say "but metaknight isn't their worst matchup!", which may be true, but the character they do have even worse matchups with aren't nearly as common as metaknight.

 

[Palpi]

We should ban Sheik because she invalidates Fox.
Same for Pikachu.

We should ban Melo for having too many epic posts.

 

[Kofu]

I've got a better question:

If snake beats MK, why is it that SNAKE was the #1 in Ankoku's chart and was toppled by METAKNIGHT?

O_o

Something doesn't add up. If Snake beat MK, more MKs would mean MORE Snake dominance... not knocking him off the #1 spot.

While I don't think that Snake beats Meta Knight, the warpstar warrior is CONSIDERABLY easier to pick up than Snake is. And, since people are lazy, they chose the character that will give quicker gratification.

 

[XquiZiTX8X]

I'm proban, but I dont expect my side to win, lmao.

 

[Red Arremer]

I don't get why you guys think these lower tiers won't benefit greatly from banning metaknight. You all say "but metaknight isn't their worst matchup!", which may be true, but the character they do have even worse matchups with aren't nearly as common as metaknight.

They simply won't benefit because they're not Low Tier because of Meta Knight, but rather because they are poor characters to begin with.

They aren't viable even with Meta Knight gone.

 

[Palpi]

that means you fail.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I don't get why you guys think these lower tiers won't benefit greatly from banning metaknight. You all say "but metaknight isn't their worst matchup!", which may be true, but the character they do have even worse matchups with aren't nearly as common as metaknight.

I don't get why this is being used as an argument.

Honestly, I don't give a flying **** if Metaknight is holding your character back. The game isn't balanced, if you don't like it, don't play it. Then, after you've stopped playing Brawl, don't pick up any competitive fighting game ever again.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4jYJ-Yjf3w&feature=channel_page

MK should be hard-banned because our community isn't smart enough to cooperate in a global soft-ban.

 

[takeurlife2]

dont vote based on who will get more popular with meta gone, thats just stupid...

vote based on the argument of whether or not metaknight is truly banworthy

 

[Red Arremer]

I don't get why this is being used as an argument.

Honestly, I don't give a flying **** if Metaknight is holding your character back. The game isn't balanced, if you don't like it, don't play it. Then, after you've stopped playing Brawl, don't pick up any competitive fighting game ever again.

Thank you.
You will be the first person after quite some while to recieve a friendship invitation from me, AND you will be sigged, as well.

<3

 

[:mad:]

Yes, Spadefox, because you're fully aware of Mario's bad matchups. How he only loses to Meta Knight, Game and Watch, Dedede, and arguably Marth. He actually goes 55:45 and 50:50 with most, if not all of high tier.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Ok theres low, mid, high, and top players. The High and Top players are the important tournament results. You got Ally beating almost every MK, in the Mid-west Nope is beating a lot of them, Fatal came to a NY tournament and got 2nd to Atomsk, and Ultimate Razor who is ****. There aren't many top snakes out there and its slight snake favor, overall there are many top MK's, so yeah its kinda hard to debate that OS

 

[AvaricePanda]

Lower tiers really won't benefit from them.

Sure, MK is their universal bad match-up, but often far from the worst. These are characters who are already unviable anyway, and it's not because of MK. Most of the characters with MK as their worst match-up (Marth, Peach, Toon Link) are high-mid tier anyway.

Most lower-tiers have bad match-ups against all of top tier, and the worst match-up being somewhere in there. Take for example, Jigglypuff. Her match-up against MK isn't that bad, but her match-up against Marth is REALLY bad. Banning MK means more Marths, meaning that Jigglypuffs would have to deal with more Marths, A.K.A. it doesn't help them.

My question to pro-ban is this:

The same argument has been used since half a year ago, and with the situation being better now, and having no evidence of being bad again, why should Meta Knight be banned now? Why should he be banned when half a year ago, people said the meta-game would be overcentralized to MK, and recent tournament results have proven otherwise?

 

[Master Raven]

If anyone hasn't noticed already, Xyro voted for Yes with both his main account and his TGM account which Affinity pointed out earlier.

>_>

 

[BoTastic!]

Yes. Considering that he still has a lot of hard matchups with Top and High Tier, his position will not change by much.
I generally think the tier list won't change much if Meta Knight would get banned.
The character's performance isn't judged on their performance against Meta Knight alone.

And I really doubt that the characters that hardly get played will recieve a huge boost of players, as well, thus resulting in more tournament representation.

The only thing a ban will bring for the Meta Knight mains is them either quitting (for instance, Mew2King, pretty certainly will quit) or switching to other Top Tier characters (Snake, Diddy, Falco, etc.).

You have a point, Mario won't move much but he'll gain a slight benefit I have to say that out of the 40 characters in this game the only characters that really destroy him is..


MK
Snake
DDD
G&W
Marth

MK being is worst match up.

4 of these character I can easily Counter pick with the other characters I use. It's only common sense for a Mario main to have a solid secondary like me to handle Mario's bad match ups.

And m2k quitting imo probably won't happen. M2k is a very smart player who can pick up someone else quickly if MK is banned.

Spoiler

idk he probably enjoys Melee more.

 

[Flayl]

Yes, Spadefox, because you're fully aware of Mario's bad matchups. How he only loses to Meta Knight, Game and Watch, Dedede, and arguably Marth. He actually goes 55:45 and 50:50 with most, if not all of high tier.

What exactly makes Mario go 45:55 with Snake? Or Pikachu?

 

[Azuzu]

They simply won't benefit because they're not Low Tier because of Meta Knight, but rather because they are poor characters to begin with.

They aren't viable even with Meta Knight gone.

I partially disagree there - they are low teir because they have bad matchups against other characters. How can removing one of their most common bad, sometimes terrible, matchups possibly not help them? I'm not saying they will suddenly become "viable", if you take that to mean winning nationals, but it would certainly make them more competitive as they would be more likely to run into closer to even matches.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yes, Spadefox, because you're fully aware of Mario's bad matchups. How he only loses to Meta Knight, Game and Watch, Dedede, and arguably Marth. He actually goes 55:45 and 50:50 with most, if not all of high tier.

I have a VERY hard time believing that Mario goes even or only 45/55 with Snake and Wario.

And yes, Snake doesn't have a bad match-up and he's the best character in the game because he ***** many characters harder than MK does (ICs anyone?) and he goes at least even with MK.

 

[Eddie G]

I don't get why this is being used as an argument.

Honestly, I don't give a flying **** if Metaknight is holding your character back. The game isn't balanced, if you don't like it, don't play it. Then, after you've stopped playing Brawl, don't pick up any competitive fighting game ever again.

Tell that to the Peach mains. I guarantee we'll run rampant if/when MK gets banned. She can deal with everything else. This I know for a fact.

 

[Red Arremer]

Yes, Spadefox, because you're fully aware of Mario's bad matchups. How he only loses to Meta Knight, Game and Watch, Dedede, and arguably Marth. He actually goes 55:45 and 50:50 with most, if not all of high tier.

As you can see, he still has 2 other matchups he definitely loses in, one that he arguably definitely loses in, and if you say "most of high tier", I suppose that means he has some slightly disadvantaged matchups that you're overexaggerating into even for the sake of the argument.

 

[황미영]

I don't get why this is being used as an argument.

Honestly, I don't give a flying **** if Metaknight is holding your character back. The game isn't balanced, if you don't like it, don't play it. Then, after you've stopped playing Brawl, don't pick up any competitive fighting game ever again.

Lol, Brawl is not the same as other fighters out there. And should not be used together when telling someone off. :D

 

[Flayl]

Tell that to the Peach mains. I guarantee we'll run rampant if/when MK gets banned. She can deal with everything else. This I know for a fact.

Have you ever picked up a secondary for MK?

 

[MarKO X]

Tell that to the Peach mains. I guarantee we'll run rampant if/when MK gets banned. She can deal with everything else. This I know for a fact.

Sooooooo....

peach up for the "if MK gets banned _____ gets banned too" argument?

lets get it.

Have you ever picked up a secondary for MK?

Oh, you mean MK?

 

[Red Arremer]

You have a point, Mario won't move much but he'll gain a slight benefit I have to say that out of the 40 characters in this game the only characters that really destroy him is..


MK
Snake
DDD
G&W
Marth

MK being is worst match up.

4 of these character I can easily Counter pick with the other characters I use. It's only common sense for a Mario main to have a solid secondary like me to handle Mario's bad match ups.

Well, as Melo validly said: If you are whining about a Low Tier character having trouble with a High Tier character, then please don't play a competitive game anymore.
Mario still has a lot of bad matchups, and I really can't believe what Straked said being actually true.

I partially disagree there - they are low teir because they have bad matchups against other characters. How can removing one of their most common bad, sometimes terrible, matchups possibly not help them? I'm not saying they will suddenly become "viable", if you take that to mean winning nationals, but it would certainly make them more competitive as they would be more likely to run into closer to even matches.

"Most common"? lol. Well duh, he's Top Tier, of course you're going to see Top Tiers in tournaments. That's why people with competitive mindsets usually use Top and High Tier characters, y'know. Cause they're... good?

Furthermore, many Low Tiers don't even have Meta Knight as their worst matchup, and some don't even have him as a particularly bad matchup. I can name at least 3 characters from the top of my head that are having only slightly disadvantaged matchups against Meta Knight while being utterly destroyed by other characters.
They will not see any more tournament placings - both in national and regional scale - than they do now. They will still get wrecked.

Tell that to the Peach mains. I guarantee we'll run rampant if/when MK gets banned. She can deal with everything else. This I know for a fact.

Snake says hi.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Tell that to the Peach mains. I guarantee we'll run rampant if/when MK gets banned. She can deal with everything else. This I know for a fact.

Okay, you're right. We should ban MK because he beats Peach.

No. Let me reiterate: I don't give a **** if MK is holding your character back.

This is how competitive fighters generally work:

Good characters generally have good match ups. Bad characters generally have bad match ups. Decent characters generally have some good match ups, and some bad match ups. Okay, so Peach has some good match ups. Perhaps she can, in fact, deal with everything. Everything except MK apparently. Oh well. The game isn't balanced, deal with it.
We don't ban things because they have a **** match up or two, or else ICs, Sheik, and Pikachu would all be banned.

Melee Sheik would also be banned.

 

[Azuzu]

I don't get why this is being used as an argument.

Honestly, I don't give a flying **** if Metaknight is holding your character back. The game isn't balanced, if you don't like it, don't play it. Then, after you've stopped playing Brawl, don't pick up any competitive fighting game ever again.

Cool story. Too bad he's already banned in my region, huh?

And while you may not care about the viability of characters in brawl, a lot of people do, and that is the heart of this entire debate. Over centralization towards metaknight making characters incapable of getting anywhere in tournament play.

 

[Flayl]

Oh, you mean MK?

No, no I don't.

 

[gantrain05]

Tell that to the Peach mains. I guarantee we'll run rampant if/when MK gets banned. She can deal with everything else. This I know for a fact.

its so true, peach would **** if MK gets banned, but im not getting my hopes up.

 

[Eddie G]

Have you ever picked up a secondary for MK?

Yes, 2 in fact. Wario and Pikachu. It just irks me that I absolutely have to do that for the sake of fighting one ****ing character...

@ Marko- No...

 

[Fatmanonice]

I marked the characters I don't know as well (Pit, Toon Link and Olimar) as Cyan, and the characters you're pretty wrong on with Red. :3

Greatly benefit (definate tier list benefit):

Toon Link, Pit, Ice Climbers, ROB, King Dedede, Olimar, Falco, Pikachu, Marth

Slightly benefit (probable tier list benefit):

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Wario, Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Samus, Kirby, Fox, Wolf, Captain Falcon, Pokemon Trainer, Lucario, Ike, Ness, Lucas, Mr. Game and Watch, Sonic

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Link, Zelda, Shiek, Ganondorf, Samus, Fox, Wolf, Captain Falcon, Pokemon Trainer, Lucario, Ike, Ness, Lucas, Mr. Game and Watch, and Sonic have pretty bad match ups against Metaknight. With him gone, there may be an influx of other characters but initially, these characters would benefit. For example, Mario would still have King Dedede and Mr. Game and Watch to contend with but he'd at least be spared from one "punch a baby" bad match up. Basically, this is the situation with almost everyone in the "slightly benefit" category; they are still held down by other top/high tier characters but they are at least free from one 80-20/70-30 match up.

Now to explain Bowser, Wario, Kirby, and Mr. Game and Watch, they would probably see an initial benefit but might become hurt depending on which characters become popular. For example, Mr. Game and Watch would be hurt if there was a huge increase in Snake, Marth, and Toon Link players but would be gravy if there were an increase in Olimars, Ice Climbers, and King Dedede players. If anything, for these characters, it largely depends on who becomes popular in the respective areas.

Nah, I disagree. Marth is a harder matchup, Pika is harder, ICs are freaking lol, Olimar is harder, and you have all of them benefiting from MK's ban. That means more of them, which is actually bad for Ganon.

After much thought, I voted pro-ban.

Well, all in all like I explain above, he still loses one God awful match up.

Bowser does not benefit from MK leaving, at all. Less MKs means more Falcos, Olimars and D3's.

I explain this above too. It may be naive on my part but I do not believe that any one character will suddenly popular across the board after Metaknight is banned. People say "ZOMG SnAcK!" but Falco, King Dedede, ROB, and the Ice Climbers do decently against him and even Diddy Kong, Pikachu, and Olimar can hold their own if played right. Really, I think it will be a region thing overall.

 

[bobson]

"If MK gets banned, ____ will be unstoppable" arguments I've seen in this thread: Snake, Marth, Peach, Ice Climbers, Falco, King Dedede

 

[pizzapie7]

How is pro-ban still winning?

 

[Kinzer]

You have no idea what you're talking about when you say Sonic would be better off with MK gone, Fatman.

 

[stingers]

yea an MK ban would be good for the community, everyone knows that.

 

[iRJi]

I am trying not to post often, since this is ammusing me quite much, but try not to fall off topic. This is not a Matchup Thread, nor it is "What characters get x amount of benefits" this is a Discussion on why he should be banned, or why he should he be allowed. Please, try to stay on topic.

 

[Red Arremer]

And while you may not care about the viability of characters in brawl, a lot of people do, and that is the heart of this entire debate. Over centralization towards metaknight making characters incapable of getting anywhere in tournament play.

That's why Top and High Tier characters besides Meta Knight are constantly placing - oh wait, there are no other characters winning. Silly me.

I'm gonna go play some Meta Knight only doubles with Ally, Reflex and MikeHaze, okay? :D

 

[Flayl]

Yes, 2 in fact. Wario and Pikachu. It just irks me that I absolutely have to do that for the sake of fighting one ****ing character...

Do you win with them? If so, then you're playing the game right - that's how fighting games work.

 

[UberMario]

Yes, Spadefox, because you're fully aware of Mario's bad matchups. How he only loses to Meta Knight, Game and Watch, Dedede, and arguably Marth. He actually goes 55:45 and 50:50 with most, if not all of high tier.

I still can't understand how he's at a disadvantage with DeDeDe or Marth. D3 especially considering Cape and the ban of every walk-offable/walled stage.

BTW, if MK does get banned (I hope not) I see Snake dropping like a rock in the list.